Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

At this point, I think this may be Waluigi's last chance to join Smash. He may not have enough going for him to get his own game, partially because he wasn't created by one of Nintendo's in-house studios, but his quirky, mischievous personality could get more players interested in him, and his moveset could consist mainly of his tennis skills.

Eh, I don't think this is Waluigi's LAST chance, per se. It'd definitely be weird if he's not in this time, but it's not like he'll just stop showing up in Mario games after this lol

The only character I would say this Smash is their LAST chance is probably Geno, since he's never been in a better position, and potentially never will be again outside of the long shot chance (imo) of Super Mario RPG 2.

 

[Wonder Smash]

Maybe it's just possible they don't find Waluigi compelling enough from a gameplay standpoint considering his initial purpose was just being Wario's doubles partner in Mario Tennis. TBH his lanky proportions also make it kinda hard to imagine him being playable in a mainline platformer.

I don't think it's hard to come up with a way to make Waluigi work in a platformer. Since he's basically the "evil" Luigi, he could have similar strengths and weaknesses. Maybe he can have higher jumps than Wario but maybe he could also be a lighter weight? Or a slower runner?

Something like that.

 

[CannonStreak]

I don't think it's hard to come up with a way to make Waluigi work in a platformer. Since he's basically the "evil" Luigi, he could have similar strengths and weaknesses. Maybe he can have higher jumps than Wario but maybe he could also be a lighter weight? Or a slower runner?

Something like that.

I wouldn't go with the slow runner thing personally. I mean, he has freaking long legs. He may not end up as the fastest Smasher out there, but with those legs, he has to have some speed.

 

[Wonder Smash]

I wouldn't go with the slow runner thing personally. I mean, he has freaking long legs. He may not end up as the fastest Smasher out there, but with those legs, he has to have some speed.

Yeah, I know. Technically, people with longer legs should be able to run fast but I don't want to give him too many advantages over other characters, mainly in a mainline platformer.

 

[Louie G.]

I wouldn't say this is absolutely Waluigi's last stand or anything either, but if they pass over him this time after so much fan outcry I think it moreso sends a clear message about what the team thinks of him. Realistically Waluigi as a character will not be in any better or worse of a position in a decade, since his role in the Mario games has been very consistent from his debut, but this is the most support he's ever had so if that doesn't move the dial I'm not sure what would.

As far as "what the team thinks of him" though, I'd honestly say being an Assist Trophy as far back as Brawl is kind of a nice gesture to give to a character like him. Sure, he's sharing that space with a generic Hammer Bro, but I think there's a clear distinction between the ATs that are here because of the character they represent and others who are more driven by a concept or a function. Pretty sure Hammer Bros were in Subspace too so... idk, getting off track here.

 

[CannonStreak]

Yeah, I know. Technically, people with longer legs should be able to run fast but I don't want to give him too many advantages over other characters.

Makes sense, now that you mention it. Still, he could be somewhere between fast or slow.

Whatever the case, at least give him good reach with those legs.

 

[Gorgonzales]

People overthink on here too much.

Waluigi will be in the next game. He's the most recognizable Nintendo character who hasn't been added yet and there's clear vocal demand for him. That's more than enough reason.

Doesn't matter where he came from or what role he plays in most games. At the end of the day if people want a character and there's no real reason to exclude that character, then the Smash team makes it happen.

 

[cashregister9]

There is already a perfect pitch for a Waluigi game right here smh

 

[fogbadge]

Welll, Bowser, King K. Rool and others have been very big. Thing is, Ridley's case was different from those characters, as it was more of proportions.

My point is, I don't think the words "too big" were the right words to use for Ridley, even if those words were easier to use.

i was just making a very bad joke.

Waluigi will be in the next game. He's the most recognizable Nintendo character who hasn't been added yet and there's clear vocal demand for him. That's more than enough reason.

Toad is definitely more recognizable

 

[CannonStreak]

i was just making a very bad joke.



Toad is definitely more recognizable

Oh, okay. I have seen others say Ridley was “too big”, though, so I felt the need to say something like that.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Toad is definitely more recognizable

Both are playable in the single best-selling Switch game of all time, I don't think there's really one who's more recognizable at this point.

 

[PeridotGX]

So, we're finally in 2025.

What are some things you expect this year, and when?

We know four big games that Nintendo is developing right now.

• Donkey Kong Country Returns HD
• Xenoblade Chronicles X: Definitive Edition
• Pokemon Legends Z-A
• Metroid Prime 4 Beyond

We also know that we'll have some news on the Switch 2 before the end of March.

What games do you expect to be revealed this year?

When do you think we'll get Switch 2 news?

When will the Switch 2 release?

What franchises will be present for the Switch 2's first year?

Here's what I think we'll be getting on the Switch 2 this year (system releasing around April)

• New 3D Mario (launch title)
• Some random Blue Ocean game (launch title)
• New Animal Crossing (May)
• New Warriors game (August; could be a Hyrule Warriors, Fire Emblem Warriors, or a new subscribes I don't really know)
• New Mario Kart (November)

As for Switch 1 releases (some of which could get Switch 2 upgrades)

• Metroid Prime 2 remastered (shadowdropped in February)
• Pokemon X and Y ports (June)
• Metroid Prime 4 (July)
• Some new Kirby stuff (either a brand new spinoff or the rumored Robobot remaster, September)
• Wind Waker and Twilight Princess HD (October)
• Pokemon Legends Z-A (November)

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Here's what I think we'll be getting on the Switch 2 this year (system releasing around April)

• New 3D Mario (launch title)
• Some random Blue Ocean game (launch title)
• New Animal Crossing (May)
• New Warriors game (August; could be a Hyrule Warriors, Fire Emblem Warriors, or a new subscribes I don't really know)
• New Mario Kart (November)

As for Switch 1 releases (some of which could get Switch 2 upgrades)

• Metroid Prime 2 remastered (shadowdropped in February)
• Pokemon X and Y ports (June)
• Metroid Prime 4 (July)
• Some new Kirby stuff (either a brand new spinoff or the rumored Robobot remaster, September)
• Wind Waker and Twilight Princess HD (October)
• Pokemon Legends Z-A (November)

Is Blue Ocean Endless Ocean or a different series, because Endless Ocean Luminous came out in like May last year/7 or so months ago, so I don't think they'd have another one so soon.

Also not sure why they'd do X and Y ports to Switch considering Pokemon has never really done ports like that, plus they have ZA for this year and presumably Gen 10 for next year, so I don't think they need another release like that lined up so close lol

 

[Noipoi]

Is Blue Ocean Endless Ocean or a different series, because Endless Ocean Luminous came out in like May last year/7 or so months ago, so I don't think they'd have another one so soon.

Blue ocean refers to games that are more aimed to casual audiences. Like Wii Sports.

Pokemon X and Y ports (June)

For the first time in my life I want less Pokemon games.

Z-A this year. Gen 10 next year. Nothing else that could divert recourses from the main games.

 

[BuckleyTim]

There is already a perfect pitch for a Waluigi game right here smh

Every-time I think about this video I think about how Brian spent the better part of a year growing that mustache. Everyone thought he was just doing a new look, but no he was getting ready to live up to the purple man.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Blue ocean refers to games that are more aimed to casual audiences. Like Wii Sports.

Ah okay, I think capitalizing it was throwing me off lol

For the first time in my life I want less Pokemon games.

Z-A this year. Gen 10 next year. Nothing else that could divert recourses from the main games.

The only other mainline Pokemon games I think I'd be okay seeing until Gen 10 comes out is finally putting some of the older Generations on NSO, and if not that, at least putting their soundtracks on the music app. I'd even be fine taking more spinoffs, just let me know that Scarlet and Violet aren't the only things going on the music app for the foreseeable future lol

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Kind of an odd dark horse, but I think a 2D Yoshi title could be something in that first year of the Switch 2. Mario will likely be 3D, the Returns HD port is at the beginning of this year, and even Kirby will more likely get another title in the vein of Forgotten Land. There is hypothetical space for 2D platformer circa summer 2025 through summer 2026 to potentially release. The big question mark is that given Good Feel was working on Princess Peach Showtime, they might not necessarily be in a position to have also been doing another Yoshi title. Given the lack of any strong Nintendo/Arzest work on the Switch 1 I don't think they're particularly likely either, but I do believe there is value in a family friendly platformer coming out early for the next system.

 

[superprincess]

Super copium take but I'm also holding out hope for an Uprising remaster in year 1/early on in year 2. The early stages of a console's life, when the biggest juggernauts are not out yet, is a great chance to let some smaller series shine.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

It's pretty obvious that the devs don't add characters unless they have something for them to add mechanically when even Luigi can be absent from mainline games on launch or even entirely. And when it comes to making new mechanics, there's a high preference to adding new characters to use them rather than finding old characters that could do so. Bowser's like, pretty much the only exception here.

That being said, the idea that Waluigi doesn't fit into WarioWare is silly. Waluigi is Wario's partner in crime who doesn't shy away from underhanded tactics in order to win, and when he loses anyway...eh, it's because they cheated. As you said, this is an extremely baseline concept that isn't at all fleshed out, but that's good, actually. It means they can do whatever they want with him. Do they want to pair him up with Wario? Done. Do they not? They can make up literally anything about what he does when he's not on the field/track/board. Heck, they could even just pick one of the spin-offs and make it his "thing", or he could be just like Wario and always have some sort of scheme cooking related to the spin-offs he's known to be in. Like, maybe in one game he's trying to cheat win at a tennis tournament and the next he's a mechanic who "fixes" cars with percussive maintenance. Maybe he's super unlucky and that's why he can never get anywhere with his schemes.

Wario Land would be a bit more difficult since it's harder to see him in a support role there, but he'd probably work as a second playable character if they were to go for it. WarioWare though, yeah the only reason he's not there is because they don't want him to be there/feel like adding him. There's just so much you could do there.

The Wario and Waluigi combos are also quite specific to some Sports games(and Olympics... which is Sports in practice). It's not really a thing for Mario Kart or Mario Party. That's pretty much the thing too; they aren't partners in crimes by default. It entirely depends if it's sports-related or not that they go that route. Mario Party doesn't much acknowledge any of this even during Story Modes. It's minorly noted with some Team names, at least.

Hell, DDR doesn't even have him related to Wario in the plot. At all. Which is saying something. He's also not combo'd with Wario in all the Tennis games either. But the overall point is... yes, he's teamed up with Wario, but it's only in certain contexts. Not just simply spin-offs(as they only team up in one Mario Kart game. Likewise, while Waluigi was originally envisioned as Wario's brothers, later materials reveal they're just sports partners. They're not related, nor are they actually friends(Waluigi doesn't really appear to have any).

...So it's not hard to see why they don't put Waluigi in Wario games. Because he isn't meant to be part of his life beyond, well, sports and some spin-offs teaming up. It's the fanbase that pushes them together far more than what the games actually go for. That doesn't mean the concept of him appearing in WarioWare alone is weird either. He's got the right personality for it, etc, as noted. But even then, his "cheating" is kept to sports too. It's not really the normal thing in Mario Party(though a manga adaption does go with that). So party games he's more likely to play fair. Besides that, the types of mini-games that WarioWare does is completely different from Mario Party. Waluigi isn't greedy for money. It's more attention and such he craves(and he hates cheaters... but he's also a hypocrite, so).

 

[Guynamednelson]

The early stages of a console's life, when the biggest juggernauts are not out yet, is a great chance to let some smaller series shine.

Nintendo went the other way around with the Switch though. Super Mario, Zelda, Mario Kart, and Smash were all from its first two years, and stuff like Advance Wars, Famicom Detective Club, and Another Code came later.

 

[Royaru]

Speaking of Switch 2 games, remember the Playtest from a couple of months ago?
From what we heard, it was a game developed by EPD4 (Ring Fit Adventure, Game Builder Garage, LABO).
What do you think it will end up being? I'm betting on a title from the first year of Switch 2.

 

[PeridotGX]

Also not sure why they'd do X and Y ports to Switch considering Pokemon has never really done ports like that, plus they have ZA for this year and presumably Gen 10 for next year, so I don't think they need another release like that lined up so close lol

For the first time in my life I want less Pokemon games.

Z-A this year. Gen 10 next year. Nothing else that could divert recourses from the main games.

They did remakes of Gen 4 at the same time as Legends Arceus, and both sets of games sold very well (they probably helped boost the sales of the other to some degree). I don't see a reason not to do that again. It's a lot easier to market Kalos nostalgia if a kalos game is easily playable on modern hardware. Part of the vitriol for BDSP was because fans had been dreaming of a full sinnoh remake for years, getting a glorified remaster was highly dissapointing. With X/Y getting the same treatment, people would probably be kinder to it because it's pretty clearly just a bonus on top of Z-A. I also think low-effort X/Y remasters could be a blessing in disguise - if they were so similar to the original Gen 6 games that they could trade with them, preventing Pokemon from being stranded upon Bank's closure.

(They would also probably be handed off to ILCA or whoever, meaning that this doesn't really affect Game Freak.)

 

[KneeOfJustice99]

Speaking of Switch 2 games, remember the Playtest from a couple of months ago?
From what we heard, it was a game developed by EPD4 (Ring Fit Adventure, Game Builder Garage, LABO).
What do you think it will end up being? I'm betting on a title from the first year of Switch 2.

Probably something to do with that weird planet-MMO playtest they did a few months back. I'm not sure on specifics, but despite the veil of secrecy, a whole bunch of stuff got leaked about it when it was happening. Not sure if any of that's still around or if the ninjas got at it, though.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Waluigi has the feel of a character that they might have had some plans with at one point, but Nintendo eventually lost interest and so he ended up in a weird purgatory game wise. He's too popular to really get rid of, but there's no active push to have him outside the spin-off titles either. He reminds me of much of the Sonic cast circa 2008-2019; the backlash from Sonic 06 meant many of them were de-emphasized but they were too useful in stuff like the Olympic titles to entirely turf, so you have situations where Blaze is popping up to compete in skiing against Toad and Bowser Jr but not really doing anything in the main Sonic entries.

 

[Lionfranky]

Isn't Geno having the same issue that Waluigi has? Geno was developed by and is owned by Square Enix.
I also remember hearing that Nintendo declared they don't want to put or promote non-mainline Mario stuff into spotlight... though I want to look for the source. That policy probably extends to roster selection.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

They did remakes of Gen 4 at the same time as Legends Arceus, and both sets of games sold very well (they probably helped boost the sales of the other to some degree). I don't see a reason not to do that again. It's a lot easier to market Kalos nostalgia if a kalos game is easily playable on modern hardware. Part of the vitriol for BDSP was because fans had been dreaming of a full sinnoh remake for years, getting a glorified remaster was highly dissapointing. With X/Y getting the same treatment, people would probably be kinder to it because it's pretty clearly just a bonus on top of Z-A. I also think low-effort X/Y remasters could be a blessing in disguise - if they were so similar to the original Gen 6 games that they could trade with them, preventing Pokemon from being stranded upon Bank's closure.

(They would also probably be handed off to ILCA or whoever, meaning that this doesn't really affect Game Freak.)

I mean there's not really a reason they shouldn't do it again I suppose, but considering I hated BDSP and it needlessly locked out Darkrai in Legends: Arceus and contained the only hint for Manaphy for some reason in the Canalave Library, I'd really rather they didn't lol

I also don't think Pokemon fans would be kinder to X and Y ports/remasters than they were to BDSP, and Pokemon Company would not make a remaster of X and Y able to trade with the originals since they were 3 Generations ago, they would simply allow the ports to interact with HOME and by extension the other games that can interact with HOME.

 

[RodNutTakin]

Here's my take on the next system's release forecast:

 

[KneeOfJustice99]

...going into the next generation, I really hope Nintendo doesn't keep doing the model of "release incredibly bare-bones games at launch and then drip-feed additional content through updates that people ignore, before looking shocked at why people aren't buying games at launch". Especially when it comes to stuff like the Mario sports games, it'd be nice to see something that feels more like a complete package at launch. (Then maybe free updates on top of that, if they want.)

 

[Arcanir]

They did remakes of Gen 4 at the same time as Legends Arceus, and both sets of games sold very well (they probably helped boost the sales of the other to some degree). I don't see a reason not to do that again. It's a lot easier to market Kalos nostalgia if a kalos game is easily playable on modern hardware. Part of the vitriol for BDSP was because fans had been dreaming of a full sinnoh remake for years, getting a glorified remaster was highly dissapointing. With X/Y getting the same treatment, people would probably be kinder to it because it's pretty clearly just a bonus on top of Z-A. I also think low-effort X/Y remasters could be a blessing in disguise - if they were so similar to the original Gen 6 games that they could trade with them, preventing Pokemon from being stranded upon Bank's closure.

(They would also probably be handed off to ILCA or whoever, meaning that this doesn't really affect Game Freak.)

The thing with BDSP was not only that it was a glorified remaster, it also fell short in giving fans the remake of the games people wanted to see. Whether you're more a fan of how HGSS or ORAS did it, many fans love those games and wanted the DP remakes to be more like those, and BDSP did nothing and instead felt like complete wasted potential. XY remasters would probably have similar issues as those games have a number of things about them that left fans disappointed, and the lack of any revisit like B2W2 or Platinum made it even worse. So having the next revisit just be remasters that would likely not address those problems at all would be just as disappointing as BDSP was since its potential will never fully be realized (whereas at least DP has Platinum).

It may be more honest then BDSP, but it likely wouldn't fully avoid the disappointment that those games got.

 

[Captain Shwampy]

They did remakes of Gen 4 at the same time as Legends Arceus, and both sets of games sold very well (they probably helped boost the sales of the other to some degree). I don't see a reason not to do that again. It's a lot easier to market Kalos nostalgia if a kalos game is easily playable on modern hardware. Part of the vitriol for BDSP was because fans had been dreaming of a full sinnoh remake for years, getting a glorified remaster was highly dissapointing. With X/Y getting the same treatment, people would probably be kinder to it because it's pretty clearly just a bonus on top of Z-A. I also think low-effort X/Y remasters could be a blessing in disguise - if they were so similar to the original Gen 6 games that they could trade with them, preventing Pokemon from being stranded upon Bank's closure.

(They would also probably be handed off to ILCA or whoever, meaning that this doesn't really affect Game Freak.)

Nothing from the big pokemon leaks indicate a X and Y remake is in the works

 

[MBRedboy31]

I feel like, if Waluigi ever appeared in Warioware, he’d be antagonistic to Wario and trying to outdo him instead of being part of his crew. (It might be incredibly unsuccessful for him since he probably doesn’t have a crew of his own, but still.)

I think/theorize/headcanon/idk there’s a possibility that Mario games might be metafictional in the Warioware+Rhythm Heaven universe (given that 9-Volt collects them and other Nintendo products,) and Wario and Waluigi don’t actually like each other in “real life.” That’s just a thing that happens with some actors who are a duo onscreen but not IRL.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

I feel like, if Waluigi ever appeared in Warioware, he’d be antagonistic to Wario and trying to outdo him instead of being part of his crew. (It might be incredibly unsuccessful for him since he probably doesn’t have a crew of his own, but still.)

I think/theorize/headcanon/idk there’s a possibility that Mario games might be metafictional in the Warioware+Rhythm Heaven universe (given that 9-Volt collects them and other Nintendo products,) and Wario and Waluigi don’t actually like each other in “real life.” That’s just a thing that happens with some actors who are a duo onscreen but not IRL.

Honestly, with Cractus being in Move It and showing that Wario Land characters can show up in Ware given the right circumstances, I would love if like a businesswoman-styled Captain Syrup set up a rival game company to try and steal Wario's playerbase, complete with corporate espionage through Waluigi joining Wario's game company or something.

I just think it'd be a real fun dynamic for a story, even if WarioWare stories are kinda more background stuff than the actual focus.

 

[Bölverkaizer]

So, we're finally in 2025.

What are some things you expect this year, and when?

We know four big games that Nintendo is developing right now.

• Donkey Kong Country Returns HD
• Xenoblade Chronicles X: Definitive Edition
• Pokemon Legends Z-A
• Metroid Prime 4 Beyond

We also know that we'll have some news on the Switch 2 before the end of March.

What games do you expect to be revealed this year?

When do you think we'll get Switch 2 news?

When will the Switch 2 release?

What franchises will be present for the Switch 2's first year?

I have one and only one thing I need for Switch 2 and its Uprising HD/Uprising 2.


Things like Pokken 2, new Xenoblade, new Bayonetta or similar are good treats tho.

 

[ninjahmos]

I'm hoping the Switch 2 will have a new F-Zero game and/or a port/remaster of F-Zero GX, but that's probably unlikely.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

First update to the music app of the year is DKC3, meaning only Wind Waker is left out of the games that were in the reveal trailers.

Also puts me one step closer to DK64 on this thing, meaning like the only Grant Kirkhope soundtrack likely to be added to the app and specifically Angry Aztec that's been stuck in my head for ages now.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

First update to the music app of the year is DKC3, meaning only Wind Waker is left out of the games that were in the reveal trailers.

Also puts me one step closer to DK64 on this thing, meaning like the only Grant Kirkhope soundtrack likely to be added to the app and specifically Angry Aztec that's been stuck in my head for ages now.

Super Mario World is scheduled to come to the app too. It was on a European advertisement. But next week will probably be Wind Waker, regardless.

 

[SPEN18]

Re Waluigi & Camelot
It's not that there'd be any issue with getting rights or permissions from Camelot, as Waluigi is owned by Nintendo and appears in first party games all the time.
It's simply that not being internally created makes it less likely that Nintendo higher-ups and influential people like Miyamoto are as attached to him. Which is speculative, but very possibly a factor. I'd guess it's a bit of a knock in terms of likelihood, but very clearly not a crippling disadvantage given how many others not created internally at Nintendo have made it into Smash.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Super Mario World is scheduled to come to the app too. It was on a European advertisement. But next week will probably be Wind Waker, regardless.

I remembered Mario World, but yeah I expect Wind Waker or a random left field niche pick like how we randomly got Wave Race and Brain Age for the choice next week since I don't know if they'd wanna double into the SNES like that. Course, I dunno if that's even a concern for these uploads lol

We're very close to just being in unknown territory where it could be ANYTHING and we have no guidance to go off of, which is exciting imo.

 

[superprincess]

Waluigi being created by Camelot is such a stupid excuse. Diddy was created by Rare and still got in as early as Brawl. It literally doesn't matter who created the character, if they're from a first party series and owned by Nintendo, they're completely fair game.

 

[dream1ng]

Toad is definitely more recognizable

I think more people would be able to name Toad, but I think just as many people would be able to identify Waluigi as a Mario character, because he looks like Mario and Luigi. For whatever counts as "recognizable".

So I guess I think more people would actually know Toad, but just as many would be able to accurately guess where Waluigi is from.

It's like if you know Sonic you can probably recognize a Sonic character that uses that general design style. You might not know, like, Jet the Hawk, but you'd probably be able to tell it's a Sonic character.

Both are playable in the single best-selling Switch game of all time, I don't think there's really one who's more recognizable at this point.

Congrats Lakitu you're as recognizable as Luigi

Also you can't hinge everything on one game, otherwise you'd be able to say, like, Pit and Kirby are both playable in by far either's best selling game, so I don't think there's one who's more recognizable. One is clearly more recognizable.

Plus Toad was in the billion+ dollar Mario movie. That's an extremely prolific movie in an entirely different demographic.