Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Perkilator]

Every further Waluigi-related argument I see here just makes this tweet more and more relevant.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I don't think Waluigi should have his own game. It'd be kinda weird and there's not a whole lot to work with for a solo adventure, which is probably why his most notable fangames are crackpot ideas like running a taco stand or giving him psychic powers for some reason.

I do think he's pretty underutilized as a supporting cast member though, as his dynamic with Wario could be explored in a lot of fun ways. That's mainly what bothers me. Well...as much a fictional character that I'm only hypothetically invested in can bother me. I just think it's a shame when companies don't use their cool characters.

 

[chinkuru]

I always thought the Wario Bros would be a natural fit for a Mario & Luigi RPG, and I feel like that’s still the biggest missed opportunity for Waluigi. In contrast to the Bros Attacks, these two would just trip over and inflict slapstick violence on one another. Would make for hilarious recurring rivals to interrupt the Bros at the most inopportune time.

And I actually think Waluigi could have a great, similar role in a new Wario Land game too. Imagine a co-op platformer where the two go treasure hunting, but you can also choose to make it a competitive experience where you’re underhandedly sabotaging your partner to take the treasure for yourself. I imagine it being kind of the natural evolution of how people used to screw around in NSMBW.

Having said that, I don’t think Waluigi needs to be all that much more than he currently is either. It would be appreciated for sports games to continue to make him and Wario the petty antagonists like they often are in Tennis, this at least allows the two to stand out some and exercise their comedic chops. But Waluigi doesn’t really have anything to prove otherwise. The mainline games have no place for him (or Wario, at this point) and he’s been a part of the spin-offs for plenty long to be a notable staple in his own right.

I feel like the drive to give Waluigi his own game or whatever comes partially from an insecurity with liking a relatively minor character, and furthermore a projection of imaginary standards for Smash criteria. 25 years adjacent to the most iconic video game characters of all time in some of the best selling games of all time gives Waluigi a solid pedigree even still. Not to say people don’t actually want a Waluigi game, I’d play it if they made it, but I always thought it felt like a leap.

I think they'd be a great fit:

 

[Louie G.]

I think Famicom Detective Club is certainly worth keeping an eye on, but for now I’m predicting it fills a quirky Assist Trophy role like some other less fighter-adjacent series like Brain Age and Art Academy. I wouldn’t blink twice if I saw her appear on a roster though, I think it’s more than justified to acknowledge FDC as a consistent player now. I’m certain it will see some bump in acknowledgment whatever that may be.

Sakurai’s previous interest in Ayumi definitely keeps the conversation afloat, but I’m always a bit dubious of just how much thought he gave the idea in the first place. I wonder if it was good enough to keep in his back pocket for 25 years.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Sakurai’s previous interest in Ayumi definitely keeps the conversation afloat, but I’m always a bit dubious of just how much thought he gave the idea in the first place. I wonder if it was good enough to keep in his back pocket for 25 years.

Considering the conversation they had about her was "what would she even do?" "Take a picture! lol", I kinda doubt he'd put much thought into it at all.

That's not to say he couldn't have thought about it now, but I doubt the timing for that is in Ayumi's favor.

 

[Borskaboska]

You can probably tell from my profile pic, but I love waluigi and I would commit any number of crimes against nature and human decency to get him his own game. I think the fact that he's just so weird, while still being ostensibly tied to a family-friendly super polished series like mario is just so charming.

I've got some thoughts on what a Waluigi game should be like. Firstly, I don't think he should be going after money. That's more wario's thing, waluigi just tags along. Waluigi wants attention, fame and adoration and recognition for all his ward work. That's why he's such a romantic, he lives for the applause.

Mario is perfectly capable of meeting the challenges of his environment. The world around him is literally built for whatever his particular abilities are at that moment. There's not a thought in his head.

Luigi, on the other hand, is not as competent as his brother Mario. In the luigi's mansion games, scenarios that Mario could solve effortlessly terrify him. He's pissing. Hes ****ting. He's not even capable of beating basic enemies with the poltergust. There's a button on the controller just for crying. But, if he believes in himself, he learns he is strong enough to be just as good a hero as Mario.

Wario is a parody of mario. While Mario's attitude is most oblivious to the situation he's in, stuck in a permanent bing-bing-wahoo, Wario is actively antagonistic to the world around him. While mario's world is perfectly tuned to him, wario's cant even touch him. In most wario games enemies dont even deal damage. Wario can pick up and toss enemies like their nothing. He cares not for whatever monster or demon is trying to stop him, he knows they can;t touch him and he simply wants to exploit the opporotunity to get cash.

So if Mario is Perfectly Competant, Luigi is Slightly Undercompentant, and Wario is hilariously hyper-competant, where does that leave Waluigi? I think it would be funny and fit his personality if he was Hilariously Undercompetant. Like, when luigi is to scared to face the enemy the people and tone of the game supports him and he learns to believe in himself. Waluigi wouldnt be that. He's struggling to pay rent, his power gets cut off because he forgot to pay the bills, everyone hates him. He's a loser that cant do anything. He in the only character in the mario universe that has to deal with this stuff, just to show how incompetant he is. But, he BELIEVES he should be succeeding. He's mad at the world because, in his mind, its everyone elses fault he's struggling.

Of course, his main goal should be getting people to like him. But Waluigi can't just be nice to people to get them to like him, it's their fault that they dont ALREADY like him. So he'd be sneaking around, learning their secrets, and injecting himself into their lives. Maybe he could do a persona 5, and break into peoples subconscious in order to alter their personalities. Basically the game i'm imagining is like Persona 5 meats Chulip.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Waluigi wasn't designed by Nintendo EPD, he was designed by Camelot thus you will never see him appear in anything but spin offs. Same rule applies for for Wario, Wario Land was a separate team of creatives in R&D1 that moved on to doing Wario Ware when the SPD team for it was born, thus you wont see Wario in a mainline 2D/3D Mario game.
Dev teams don't tend to like using character they didn't make, it requires going through proper channels, permissions, and discussion, its a pain in the ass.

Same reason why Hashino's Persona games don't reference Persona 1 and 2 or why Sonic Team was afraid to use Compile era characters in Puyo for a long time. Different team of creatives involved.

To give another Nintendo-related example, it took a long time for them to start using the Rare-made Donkey Kong characters in mainline Mario stuff despite fully owning them, and even then they usually just stick to Diddy Kong tagging alongside Donkey Kong. Heck, Returns had a whole racetrack in Mario Kart dedicated to it before Dixie Kong even became PLAYABLE in that series, though at the same time that one might have been a special case...

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

FDC is a good series, but there's really nothing in there to build an action game character that's both faithful to the games and distinct enough from the extremely varied Smash cast. Heck I'd struggle to think what an Assist Trophy could do.

A stage and some music would be cool, though.

 

[fogbadge]

You can probably tell from my profile pic, but I love waluigi and I would commit any number of crimes against nature and human decency to get him his own game.

well it's what he would want

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Waluigi's biggest hurdle will probably always be, until proven otherwise, that he was made by Camelot rather than Nintendo themselves.

As far as I'm aware, neither the likes of Wario nor Daisy were made by any one other than Nintendo employees. The former's got two separate lines of spin-offs to his name, along with a handful of games that aren't technically part of either spin-off, while Daisy originated in a platformer spin-off and has gone on to be playable in both a SSB game (albeit as a virtually identical Echo Fighter) as well as a mainline Mario game in recent years.

I don't recall if Nintendo's ever given their official stance on Waluigi, so saying that he couldn't get into Smash would likely just be going off of yet another arbitrary "fan rule" based on circumstantial evidence and speculation, but the fact that he's one of the few notable recurring Mario characters to have never appeared in a mainline game or been playable outside of Sports and party-game spin-offs even up to this day is a little odd and sadly doesn't bode well for his chances to make that jump.

 

[Captain Shwampy]

To give another Nintendo-related example, it took a long time for them to start using the Rare-made Donkey Kong characters in mainline Mario stuff despite fully owning them, and even then they usually just stick to Diddy Kong tagging alongside Donkey Kong. Heck, Returns had a whole racetrack in Mario Kart dedicated to it before Dixie Kong even became PLAYABLE in that series, though at the same time that one might have been a special case...

Yea,
reason why they never put archie/idw comic characters in mainline sonic?
They weren't made by sonic team proper.

 

[Dinoman96]

Yea,
reason why they never put archie/idw comic characters in mainline sonic?
They weren't made by sonic team proper.

Archie, yes. IDW characters, no, Sonic Team was actually much more involved with them. Tangle and Whisper even got to show up in that one Sonic Forces mobile games, and Tangle even just made a cameo in the new TailsTube, and even a shout-out in Sonic Frontier I believe.

Ain't much, but it's definitely much more than say, Sally is gonna get at this point.

 

[Ivander]

On the other hand, there are a couple of details from the interview that I find VERY interesting. On the one hand, Nintendo had no problem giving the green light to a more mature project, perhaps this could open the door to more scary games or darker experiences?

I mean, the early ARG video of Emio had people really interested in a possible Nintendo Horror title, so I'd say there's definitely a interest in people willing to try an actual horror game made by Nintendo. Heck, not even counting Eternal Darkness or FDC: The Smiling Man, alot of people note on how some of the most memorable horror moments have come from Nintendo games, like Unagi the Eel(and Mawray by extension) and the Mad Piano in Super Mario 64, Giygas from Earthbound, the Aparoids from Star Fox, the Waterwraith from Pikmin 2, Darkrai, Giratina and practically the lot of Ghost-types Pokedex entries from Pokemon, and then just Zelda and Metroid in general.

So yeah, I think there would definitely be a market for a Nintendo Horror title. And I'd definitely be curious in what kind of "horror monster/killer" Nintendo would make. Heck, after the Guardians from BotW and the E.M.M.I. from Metroid Dread, Nintendo could probably create a monster/killer with an AI script and whatnot more than capable of rivalling the Alien from Alien Isolation.

 

[Diddy Kong]

A Waluigi mainline appearance won't happen so soon. Wario himself is even hardly appearing anywhere outside the same spin offs. An idea could be for Waluigi to be included as a side character there at first.

Daisy was even lucky to get into Wonder. They just wanted a secondary princess. Well, she's there now. She also had a playable appearance in Mario Run of course.

Waluigi is just a different case. At first I think he needs Wario to appear too. But it also wouldn't make sense for Mario and Luigi not to appear. So, indeed maybe as antagonists in Mario & Luigi future installments??

I'm not even all too sure for a next Smash inclusion. Even if he's one of the few highly popular requests left.

 

[Watuna4343]

Waluigi's biggest hurdle will probably always be, until proven otherwise, that he was made by Camelot rather than Nintendo themselves.

As far as I'm aware, neither the likes of Wario nor Daisy were made by any one other than Nintendo employees. The former's got two separate lines of spin-offs to his name, along with a handful of games that aren't technically part of either spin-off, while Daisy originated in a platformer spin-off and has gone on to be playable in both a SSB game (albeit as a virtually identical Echo Fighter) as well as a mainline Mario game in recent years.

I don't recall if Nintendo's ever given their official stance on Waluigi, so saying that he couldn't get into Smash would likely just be going off of yet another arbitrary "fan rule" based on circumstantial evidence and speculation, but the fact that he's one of the few notable recurring Mario characters to have never appeared in a mainline game or been playable outside of Sports and party-game spin-offs even up to this day is a little odd and sadly doesn't bode well for his chances to make that jump.

Waluigi has been an Assist Trophy since Brawl and a Trophy since Melee, if being owned by Camelot was such a big obstacle, I doubt he would even have that. (Not to mention that Diddy Kong was also not originally created by Nintendo but he's still part of Brawl. Both of them are very much Nintendo characters at the end of the day). Not to mention the simple fact that even in Mario games, if Waluigi had hurdles, he wouldn't have been a spin-off staple and wouldn't have been playable in rosters that have like, 8 characters. The whole 'Camelot might be a hurdle' argument is mostly a myth.

 

[RodNutTakin]

Boys had their fun last year with Shadow the Hedgehog. Now it’s real men’s turn.

Pokémon Center has just updated and it seems that 2025 is the "Year of Eevee", even with its own logo. Presumably this is just a merch celebration.

With Prismatic Evolutions releases covering all year, it makes sense.

You guys won't jump to crazy conclusions, right? pic.twitter.com/tp6nVq5UdY

— Joe Merrick (@JoeMerrick) January 6, 2025

Big day for annoying people.

 

[cashregister9]

I'd agree with the Camelot thing if they were consistent about it. Smash Bros. and the main series are literally the only things were Waluigi doesn't appear, he consistently appears in all spinoffs and series branding.

I think the WarioWare cast is a better comparison to the Rare DK characters than Waluigi is.

 

[Dinoman96]

Maybe it's just possible they don't find Waluigi compelling enough from a gameplay standpoint considering his initial purpose was just being Wario's doubles partner in Mario Tennis. TBH his lanky proportions also make it kinda hard to imagine him being playable in a mainline platformer.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

I always thought the Wario Bros would be a natural fit for a Mario & Luigi RPG, and I feel like that’s still the biggest missed opportunity for Waluigi. In contrast to the Bros Attacks, these two would just trip over and inflict slapstick violence on one another. Would make for hilarious recurring rivals to interrupt the Bros at the most inopportune time.

And I actually think Waluigi could have a great, similar role in a new Wario Land game too. Imagine a co-op platformer where the two go treasure hunting, but you can also choose to make it a competitive experience where you’re underhandedly sabotaging your partner to take the treasure for yourself. I imagine it being kind of the natural evolution of how people used to screw around in NSMBW.

I would love for Wario and Waluigi to basically take the Popple and Rookie dynamic and make it a regular thing. Could even see them doing one of their team attacks from Superstar Saga, the one where Rookie grabs Popple and throws him into the air before grabbing him and piledriving him into the floor to create shockwaves. Could also imagine Waluigi being kind of a pathetic sort like Popple is in battle where if you beat the muscle he just kinda runs away lol

 

[Captain Shwampy]

I'd agree with the Camelot thing if they were consistent about it. Smash Bros. and the main series are literally the only things were Waluigi doesn't appear

He does though, as an assist and a costume. Easier to do that than making a whole game about him. You would need to have Camelot's full supervision on something like that. Destroying a creators vision on a character will make the team look bad. Like I said you need to go through proper channels, permissions, and discussion on using a character you didnt create.

Nintendo isn't Namco, they're much more strict about their characters.

 

[cashregister9]

He does though, as an assist and a costume. Easier to do that than making a whole game about him. You would need to have Camelot's full supervision on something like that. Destroying a creators vision on a character they didn't make will make the team look bad. Like I said you need to go through proper channels, permissions, and discussion on using a character you didnt create.

Nintendo isn't Namco, they're much more strict about their characters.

Forgot to include the "As a playable character" clarification.

But I still maintain that the only reason Waluigi hasn't appeared as playable in Smash is simply because they just haven't wanted to put him in in the first place, before any of these legal conversations would have ever come up.

Although I am now curious if Camelot appears in the credits of games that they didn't develop or were involved with just for Waluigi.

 

[Captain Shwampy]

Forgot to include the "As a playable character" clarification.

But I still maintain that the only reason Waluigi hasn't appeared as playable in Smash is simply because they just haven't wanted to put him in, not because of any legal difficulties.

Although I am now curious if Camelot appears in the credits of games that they didn't develop or were involved with for Waluigi.

Its likely Camelot signs off when Nintendo EPD makes a new mario spin-off with Waluigi. The companies are on good terms so there should be no issue but take note on examples on like Mario Kart 7, Waluigi wasn't playable. Why? who knows, development time? maybe Camelot had issues? its worth noting.

Also I should be clear this doesn't stop him from being playable in smash, its a celebration of nintendo as a whole. You have characters from Pokemon. Fire Emblem, and Xenoblade running around after all.

 

[Dinoman96]

Its likely Camelot signs off when Nintendo EPD makes a new mario spin-off with Waluigi. The companies are on good terms so there should be no issue but take note on examples on like Mario Kart 7, Waluigi wasn't playable. Why? who knows, development time? maybe Camelot had issues? its worth noting.

My guess was probably just because of time constraints and he was just a lower priority character, same reason Daisy had to wait until the free updates for Mario Strikers Battle League to get added.

Heck, even Bowser Jr. was weirdly absent from Mario Kart 8's initial lineup. It happens.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Also I should be clear this doesn't stop him from being playable in smash, its a celebration of nintendo as a whole. You have characters from Pokemon. Fire Emblem, and Xenoblade running around after all.

You are correct on this though I should note Xenoblade is a bit different from Pokemon and FE since Monolith Soft is entirely first party lol

 

[Captain Shwampy]

You are correct on this though I should note Xenoblade is a bit different from Pokemon and FE since Monolith Soft is entirely first party lol

Monolith staff is not the same staff of people who made all those Mario, Zelda, Animal Crossing, Splatoon games however. Very different approach in creatives who grew up and made those games together. Same applies to Atlus and Sega. They own them but they come from very different philosophies of making games.

This will change in distant future when staff starts moving and mixing around being inspired and taught by each other, but its obvious the guys who built up Nintendo in the past and created Mario Sunshine, Wind Waker, etc and the guys who made Xenoblade are very different.

 

[dream1ng]

Waluigi's biggest hurdle will probably always be, until proven otherwise, that he was made by Camelot rather than Nintendo themselves.

As far as I'm aware, neither the likes of Wario nor Daisy were made by any one other than Nintendo employees. The former's got two separate lines of spin-offs to his name, along with a handful of games that aren't technically part of either spin-off, while Daisy originated in a platformer spin-off and has gone on to be playable in both a SSB game (albeit as a virtually identical Echo Fighter) as well as a mainline Mario game in recent years.

I don't recall if Nintendo's ever given their official stance on Waluigi, so saying that he couldn't get into Smash would likely just be going off of yet another arbitrary "fan rule" based on circumstantial evidence and speculation, but the fact that he's one of the few notable recurring Mario characters to have never appeared in a mainline game or been playable outside of Sports and party-game spin-offs even up to this day is a little odd and sadly doesn't bode well for his chances to make that jump.

I do think not being made by EPD/EAD/SPD does box characters out to some extent in games made internally. Like, not enough to keep them out - especially a character as major to their series as Diddy - but I do think their own creations are treated preferentially.

However, I also think that's gradually changing, as newer devs take the reins and whether it was some actual mandate or just favorable treatment is slowly eroded. I'm guessing that will prove most true if and when we see that EPD DK game and it fully embraces the cast made by Rare.

Having said that, I don't think it's a huge factor in Smash. I think it's more a factor in EPD's own games. I think what's more salient is just that spin-off content is generally treated as lesser than mainline content, in which Waluigi has no real presence. However, I wouldn't compare Waluigi to clones, since those characters usually won't otherwise get in normally, and are included because of their similarity to an existing base. Like Dr. Mario. I mean, he's the sole "spin-off" character in Smash (not counting entire spin-off series), but there's no shot he'd be in if not as a clone.

If you look at the original Mario characters, they're all mainline. And all quite prominent. It's not really a surprise they would get in before Waluigi, if you observe how Smash works. Well, other than PP, but surprise characters are also a bit different.

But I think Waluigi's prominence in the overall series, his very high popularity (across many demographics), the in-series competition being pretty low (I'm assuming Toad will remain overlooked), and the fact that it's not that spin-off content can't be included, give him very good odds at this point, even if being a spin-off character remains a big obstacle.

 

[Louie G.]

I think the sentiment that Waluigi needs to overachieve to earn a spot in Smash is outdated. We're at exactly the point where a character like Waluigi is fair game to consider, with Mario characters always being added and many of the most obvious names well out of the way. Characters have climbed the ladder to surpass hurdles far greater than his before. There has never been this much of an aversion to treating Waluigi as a prominent Nintendo character as people seem to believe there is, there just isn't much space for him in narrative driven Super Mario games that don't even have Wario in them.

He has no forseeable technical issues (). His series has not outright abandoned him (). This is a character who appears in probably one or two best-selling games every single year, and minor role or otherwise still manages to be included and merchandised alongside the general Mario branding. And this heavily marketed, unanimously recognized character is also the single most requested first party character by a wide margin.

What's the downside then? Not giving the community the wrong idea? Because not for nothing, but to the median consumer Waluigi already is a member of the main cast about as much as Wario is. The amount of pearl clutching required to justify Waluigi's exclusion on the front of "not being a mainline character" just does not do it for me anymore. Mario Kart sells more than the mainline stuff, Mario Party sells about the same or higher. The Mario brand is much, much bigger than the Super Mario titles and I think you'd struggle to convince me that Pauline or Kamek are that much more prominent or popular to the general audience than the purple guy. We've reached the end of the line with this argument, I feel.

The strongest point against him is that he's kind of a blank slate. I don't think that's a problem, because his character is strong enough to inform a general fighting style nonetheless, but at least "he's boring" is a more honest argument against him at this point than not being in Mario Wonder or something.

 

[Wonder Smash]

Re: JoJo references in Smash Bros.

DarthEnderX

I know you said Juri is the best JoJo inspired character but...

...nothing beats the hair. lol

 

[Laniv]

I gotta say, "Waluigi being owned by Camelot is why he's not in Smash" is a new one

 

[Noipoi]

Waluigi can’t be in Smash because Rare owns the Kremlings

 

[dream1ng]

I think the sentiment that Waluigi needs to overachieve to earn a spot in Smash is outdated. We're at exactly the point where a character like Waluigi is fair game to consider, with Mario characters always being added and many of the most obvious names well out of the way. Characters have climbed the ladder to surpass hurdles far greater than his before.

He has no forseeable technical issues (). His series has not outright abandoned him (). This is a character who appears in probably one or two best-selling games every single year, and minor role or otherwise still manages to be included and merchandised alongside the general Mario branding. And this heavily marketed, unanimously recognized character is also the single most requested first party character by a wide margin.

What's the downside then? Not giving the community the wrong idea? Because not for nothing, but to the median consumer Waluigi already is a member of the main cast about as much as Wario is. The amount of pearl clutching required to justify Waluigi's exclusion on the front of "not being a mainline character" just does not do it for me anymore. Mario Kart sells more than the mainline stuff, Mario Party sells about the same or higher. The Mario brand is much, much bigger than the Super Mario titles and I think you'd struggle to convince me that Pauline or Kamek are that much more prominent and popular than the purple guy. We've reached the end of the line with this argument, I feel.

View attachment 397502

The strongest point against him is that he's kind of a blank slate. I don't think that's a problem, because his character is strong enough to inform a general fighting style nonetheless, but at least "he's boring" is a more honest argument against him at this point than not being in Mario Wonder or something.

I mean, I agree he should get in, and I think he probably will, but it's inarguable that spin-off content is, more or less, shafted in Smash. Entire Mario sub-series which are bigger than other whole series get maybe a stage. If you're Mario Kart, basically Nintendo's biggest game, you get two. Mother has more stages than Mario Kart. Mario Party doesn't even have a stage. And good luck if you're a spin-off of any other IP. Maybe you'll get a song or two.

It's just how Smash seems to operate, where spin-off content works from a deficit. And our opinions, the consumer's perception, the actual games themselves... Smash's methods supersede all of them. So yes, it's not the same obstacles faced by Ridley or K. Rool, but it is still an obstacle.

Look at the current roster... how many characters hail from a spin-off? One. And he's a clone who was added for padding.

Again, I think Waluigi will probably get in this time, I don't think it's a rule that spin-off content can't be included, but it seems very blatant that it is an obstacle that a character has to combat, whether that means they need enough popularity to outweigh the hindrance, or they just have to bide their time for the mainline contemporaries (of roughly the same stature) to get in first.

It's like people invoking K. Rool to dismiss lack of recency as a valid impediment. Just because some select few characters can maneuver past the obstacle because of their other merits doesn't mean it's not still an obstacle. I think the strongest point against Waluigi remains being a spin-off character. I just think he has enough to overcome that.

I don't think being a blank slate hinders a character. That's not the same as hurting for moveset potential or seeming infeasible, it's just there's no one obvious direction to take him in. The team has absolutely done more with less.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

I gotta say, "Waluigi being owned by Camelot is why he's not in Smash" is a new one

Well, I think the point being made is less "Camelot owns Waluigi" (since they definitely don't, since Nintendo owns Golden Sun so of course they own the guy that's in every Mario spinoff ever) and moreso "Since Camelot created him, there may be a need to get approval from Camelot since they're second party".

I don't know if that's necessarily something Waluigi needs to worry about since he's a pretty regular Mario cast member as much as someone like Isaac would need to worry about that approval, but we really don't know enough to know for sure. I kind of have my doubts though, personally, though I can definitely see the argument.

 

[CannonStreak]

I mean, I agree he should get in, and I think he probably will, but it's inarguable that spin-off content is, more or less, shafted in Smash. Entire Mario sub-series which are bigger than other whole series get maybe a stage. If you're Mario Kart, basically Nintendo's biggest game, you get two. Mother has more stages than Mario Kart. Mario Party doesn't even have a stage. And good luck if you're a spin-off of any other IP. Maybe you'll get a song or two.

It's just how Smash seems to operate, where spin-off content works from a deficit. And our opinions, the consumer's perception, the actual games themselves... Smash's methods supersede all of them. So yes, it's not the same obstacles faced by Ridley or K. Rool, but it is still an obstacle.

Look at the current roster... how many characters hail from a spin-off? One. And he's a clone who was added for padding.

Again, I think Waluigi will probably get in this time, I don't think it's a rule that spin-off content can't be included, but it seems very blatant that it is an obstacle that a character has to combat, whether that means they need enough popularity to outweigh the hindrance, or they just have to bide their time for the mainline contemporaries (of roughly the same stature) to get in first.

It's like people invoking K. Rool to dismiss lack of recency as a valid impediment. Just because some select few characters can maneuver past the obstacle because of their other merits doesn't mean it's not still an obstacle. I think the strongest point against Waluigi remains being a spin-off character. I just think he has enough to overcome that.

I don't think being a blank slate hinders a character. That's not the same as hurting for moveset potential or seeming infeasible, it's just there's no one obvious direction to take him in. The team has absolutely done more with less.

I see what you mean. I love K. Rool, but I would never dismiss his lack of recency as valid. That still has merit to it, like it or not. Still, while it doesn’t prevent anything like you may have said, I don’t think we have had a proper spinoff character playable in Smash, have we?

 

[Captain Shwampy]

I gotta say, "Waluigi being owned by Camelot is why he's not in Smash" is a new one

No one said that. Nintendo owns the characters, but just because you own a character doesn't mean you have absolute free reign on them.

 

[HyperSomari64]

Just look at what they took to us.

The Kong is right here

 

[cashregister9]

I'm trying to figure out how to put this in the conversation naturally, but I've got nothing

 

[Louie G.]

I think Waluigi will probably get in this time, I don't think it's a rule that spin-off content can't be included, but it seems very blatant that it is an obstacle that a character has to combat, whether that means they need enough popularity to outweigh the hindrance, or they just have to bide their time for the mainline contemporaries (of roughly the same stature) to get in first.

It's like people invoking K. Rool to dismiss lack of recency as a valid impediment. Just because some select few characters can maneuver past the obstacle because of their other merits doesn't mean it's not still an obstacle. I think the strongest point against Waluigi remains being a spin-off character. I just think he has enough to overcome that.

This is pretty much where I'm at too, for what it's worth. Where a spin-off character, just by default, isn't pining to be included in Smash the way a character with a more established role or further material to build off of does. It's not that hard to see why Rosalina and Bowser Jr were chosen in Smash 4. It's not hard to see why Daisy is the one exception. But I'm arguing that we're at the point now where it's less and less justified to gatekeep on that front, mostly due to the slimmer competition which you also acknowledged.

When a character has this much fan demand, I think something that marginal falls by the wayside. Waluigi's case is different than Ridley's and K. Rool's, but I do think it's significantly less of a problem. While these other two had problems with feasibility or depleting relevance / recognizability, Waluigi is a perfectly fighter-shaped character who everybody knows, so I think it's a lot easier for visible demand to supersede that hurdle. But it's splitting hairs anyway, between two characters who have already made it in and one who is very likely to make it in. All driven by the same catalyst, at the end of the day.

 

[fogbadge]

I gotta say, "Waluigi being owned by Camelot is why he's not in Smash" is a new one

must be the new "too big"

 

[CannonStreak]

must be the new "too big"

Welll, Bowser, King K. Rool and others have been very big. Thing is, Ridley's case was different from those characters, as it was more of proportions.

My point is, I don't think the words "too big" were the right words to use for Ridley, even if those words were easier to use.

 

[ninjahmos]

At this point, I think this may be Waluigi's last chance to join Smash. He may not have enough going for him to get his own game, partially because he wasn't created by one of Nintendo's in-house studios, but his quirky, mischievous personality could get more players interested in him, and his moveset could consist mainly of his tennis skills.