Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Thegameandwatch]

I feel like at least Waluigi should appear in the Wario games outside of cameos.

 

[Royaru]

I don't think Waluigi deserves his own game, the only thing he has that's relatively charismatic or related to his personality is pinball. And to make Nintendo pinball games I'd prefer a Pokémon Pinball.

On the other hand, I think that before giving more spin-off games to more characters from the Mario universe, we should secure the existing series, like Wario Land and Donkey Kong.

 

[Kirby Dragons]

There's at least a couple other Mario characters I'd like to see get their own games before Waluigi. Such as Rosalina.

 

[Perkilator]

Oh, I don't deny that Custom Robo could somehow come back in regards to the Switch. I just think the notable things in that specific case just make it more harder to believe. Custom Robo, much like the other games that got Switch titles, is basically a "It needs to be announced to believe it." deal.

And here's the detailed rumor regarding the insider.

https://www.reddit.com/r/GamingLeaksAndRumours/comments/1hrp9rw/a_known_chinese_insider_posts_several_new_details/

The rumor also mentions “outsourced assets that seem to be for Monolith Soft’s Project X Zone, with Nintendo characters.” It doesn’t say that’s it’s only with Nintendo characters, so it could mean that Nintendo characters appear as guests again.

 

[PersonAngelo53]

The rumor also mentions “outsourced assets that seem to be for Monolith Soft’s Project X Zone, with Nintendo characters.” It doesn’t say that’s it’s only with Nintendo characters, so it could mean that Nintendo characters appear as guests again.

Yeah am guessing it means Nintendo is a full company represented now instead of only a few guests. If I had to guess from the Nintendo side of things we get more fire emblem and Xenoblade characters. Probably someone from fire emblem engage and Three houses at least and for Xenoblade 3 a team of Noah and Mioh, with maybe an Elma assist from Xenoblade X. As for other Nintendo characters they probably choose more of the humanoid anime looking characters like Captain Falcon, the Zelda cast, and an Astral Chain character etc. Doubt Mario or like Kirby characters would be in it tho since not even Sonic was allowed in the past games for not fitting enough the tone of the games.
But anyway the project x zone rumor is the one I found the most interesting in that leak. Hopefully somehow is real since would be cool to have another crossover besides smash with Nintendo characters.

 

[Diddy Kong]

If we get a Waluigi game before a new Donkey Kong game I want this world to burn. 🥲

 

[Stratos]

Yeah am guessing it means Nintendo is a full company represented now instead of only a few guests. If I had to guess from the Nintendo side of things we get more fire emblem and Xenoblade characters. Probably someone from fire emblem engage and Three houses at least and for Xenoblade 3 a team of Noah and Mioh, with maybe an Elma assist from Xenoblade X. As for other Nintendo characters they probably choose more of the humanoid anime looking characters like Captain Falcon, the Zelda cast, and an Astral Chain character etc. Doubt Mario or like Kirby characters would be in it tho since not even Sonic was allowed in the past games for not fitting enough the tone of the games.
But anyway the project x zone rumor is the one I found the most interesting in that leak. Hopefully somehow is real since would be cool to have another crossover besides smash with Nintendo characters.

Mario, Kirby, Sonic, and other characters who didn't fit in didn't make it into the Project X Zone series, but Klonoa and the rest of the Klonoa series characters, even though they didn't fit into Namco × Capcom, were put there.

 

[RileyXY1]

This game was the one I mentioned in my post earlier about a revival of a dormant series being on my mind due to recent rumors I'd seen lmao

I don't necessarily believe it, mostly because I think the Custom Robo trademark is still dead though that could obviously change, but I think the funniest/scariest thing about the Switch era is I can't entirely rule it out because the Switch brought back Big Brain Academy, Advance Wars, Famicom Detective Club, Endless Ocean, Pokemon Snap, F-Zero (even if only to an extent with F-Zero 99), and Another Code lol

I do think it'd be really funny to cast all expectations aside and see something like CUSTOM ROBO releasing in the Switch 2's first year though lol

As for the actual hypothetical, I don't really keep tracks of leaks very well unfortunately (or fortunately depending on your outlook), so aside from the stuff in this post that included Custom Robo, I have no idea what's even been leaked/rumored recently.

And Famicom Detective Club was the biggest because before the remaster was released the series had never before been localized. Now not only did they finally localize the series through the remasters, but they also made a completely new game in the series (Emio: The Smiling Man) that was localized at launch, which is a first for the series.

 

[BuckleyTim]

The unspoken truth of Waluigi is that the pining for him to get a big break is obscuring the fact that Wario as a character has been kept alive for the last 15 years by the Ware alone. If WarioWare didn't come back from its break period with Gold, I think the waluigi desire would take the form of more of a "please anything with a w at this point" vibe by this point.

 

[Perkilator]

I've decided to start making a moveset for Roxas from Kingdom Hearts. So far, I've jotted down his alts, Fighter Ability, and Specials.

Spoiler

Notable Palette Swaps

1. Casual attire (default)
2. Black coat
3. Hayner (casual green)
4. Axel (black coat w/red hair + turquoise eyes)
5. Pence (casual red)
6. Xion (black coat w/black hair + blue eyes)
7. Olette (casual orange)
8. Hooded Roxas (black coat w/hood completely covering Roxas’ face)

Fighter Ability: Oathkeeper & Oblivion
By using Dual Counter, Roxas can power up Oathkeeper and/or Oblivion, which grants them different effects.

• Oathkeeper, which deals magic damage when powered up, deals single hits with greater knockback
• Oblivion, which deals dark damage when powered up, deals multiple hits with less knockback

However, once an attack is used with either of the powered-up Keyblades, the power-up disappears. Additionally, the power-up for each Keyblade only lasts a limited time if you go without attacking any opponents.

Special Moves
B : Dual Shot; Roxas fires a shot from Oathkeeper and a shot from Oblivion.

• If neither Keyblade is powered up, Roxas fires two revolving bolts of gold and purple light forward
• If Oathkeeper is powered up, Roxas fires a stationary bolt of purple light before thrusting forward in a golden light
• If Oblivion is powered up, Roxas fires a slow-moving bolt of golden light before shooting a piercing bolt of purple light
• If both Keyblades are powered up, Roxas plants them into the ground and unleashes a galaxy of stars that shoot into the air before raining down onto the ground

B + ←→ : Shadowbreaker; Roxas assails the enemy with two spinning attacks. Oblivion is used for the first spin attack, and Oathkeeper is used for the second.

• If neither Keyblade is powered up, both attacks deal one hit with dark and magic effects
• If Oathkeeper is powered up, it deals a powerful hit with far knockback
• If Oblivion is powered up, it deals multiple hits with relatively minimal knockback

B + ↑ : Magic Hour; Roxas rises upward with two beam pillars spinning around him.

• If either Keyblade is powered up, Roxas thrusts in the direction tilted on the control stick with that Keyblade’s effect
• If both Keyblades are powered up, Roxas uses Oblivion first, then Oathkeeper

B + ↓ : Dual Counter; Roxas braces a Keyblade on each side of himself, with a different effect depending on which Keyblade is hit.

• If an opponent hits Oathkeeper, it is powered up with a gold light
• If an opponent hits Oblivion, it is powered up with a purple light
• If an opponent hits either Keyblade while both of them are powered up, Roxas performs a spinning slash that disorients opponents and reflects projectiles but loses the power-up on both Keyblades

Final Smash: Event Horizon; Roxas summons a circle of beam pillars around himself. He then summons 14 light orbs from around the stage towards himself before unleashing the beam pillars across the stage.

 

[Thegameandwatch]

The unspoken truth of Waluigi is that the pining for him to get a big break is obscuring the fact that Wario as a character has been kept alive for the last 15 years by the Ware alone. If WarioWare didn't come back from its break period with Gold, I think the waluigi desire would take the form of more of a "please anything with a w at this point" vibe by this point.

If Ware games stopped then Wario would essentially goes to the same position as Waluigi of being spin-off exclusive unless Land gets rebooted.

Not sure the reason why Wario stopped appearing in the mainline games after 64 DS.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

It seems that the team behind the new Famicom Detective Club games thinks the franchise has more room to grow.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Waluigi was created for a partner in the Mario Tennis games.

Spoiler: Long

He pretty much shows up mainly in the spin-offs to partner with Wario, though can vary. He was never designed for Wario Land, and WarioWare has nothing to do with him. Of course he doesn't show up in Wario games. He was made as a Super Mario-specific character whose story is mainly tied to Wario. It's a very different thing from an actual Wario-series character. Besides that, they don't even define their relationship at all beyond them working together in often jerkish acts of sorts. Are they friends? Family? Etc. Waluigi's existence also is heavily based upon being an Evil Luigi type of character(the same reason for Wario's existence), and never really broke out into his own subset of games to define him heavily(at most, he played sometimes a villainous role, but even then, other characters also had it in the same games). The second factor is what makes him quite different from Wario. Other than a similar archtype in terms of creation, and working together in Mario-based games, they really don't have much to do with each other.

Sure, that seems weird to say, but Wario's two game series; Land(which World is more or less part of in terms of overall playstyle) and Ware do their own things that define Wario and his series pretty well. Land gave him skills that are very unique(though it is based upon Super Mario Land's skill concept, something which Mario doesn't do nearly as much anymore. He still does from time to time), while Ware completely cut off Wario from the Mario style entirely. Waluigi doesn't really fit into either series since his main thing is being about sports and other competitive games. In a sense, you could call him a king of spin-offs too(RPG's aside). One of the biggest difference is that others who debuted in spin-offs tend to rarely cameo in mainline games either, but Waluigi did get a seat as a costume in Super Mario Maker and Odyssey, as well as his colors deliberately used when using the Wario and Luigi Badges in The Thousand Year Door(justified, as Waluigi is basically a Wa - Luigi intentionally. Same concept as Wario, but based upon Luigi, as I noted a bit back).

To note, Daisy seems almost the same, it's just that she debuted in a mainline game(Super Mario Land), and was reused fully in Super Mario Run(which is officially a mainline game too). She was never designed as a spin-off character. It's just that the spin-offs gave her actual personality to work with. So a tad different in how things go. Naturally she's seeing slightly more use in the mainline games than Waluigi because they have different purposes. That said, the franchise isn't designed where this much matters. It's just that some aren't going to see use in a sub-series if they're not really tied to it. While Yoshi does see some of the Babies in the remake of Yoshi's Island, that's... kind of it. Wario meanwhile only had Mario temporarily in it and then his cast of characters. Here and there some Super Mario characters have very minor cameos or references, but it's generally his own world. Yoshi at least makes more sense to use Super Mario enemies(though he has his own unique set of enemies too) due to the fact that some games are literally his past interactions with Mario.

You can start to see how they go about things; it's not whether they have remote ties in the same big universe. It's whether they really fit into said sub-series based upon their origins and purpose. If they don't really serve a purpose in a sub-series beyond "just happening to know the character", then it doesn't really add to it. Besides that, when a sub-series super branches out, it doesn't rely on the core series for things, which makes sense. That just hurts its uniqueness(Yoshi doesn't entirely rely on Super Mario either). And even Donkey Kong Country, which is a sub-series to DK Arcade in particular, didn't even bother with Super Mario at all. Super Mario still has DKC characters appear, and sometimes DK Arcade stuff, but doesn't heavily use them either way. Mainly cause it's not exactly a franchise heavily focused on relating to Mario beyond three characters interacting(Mario, classic DK, and DK Jr). And that's not even counting Stanley the Bugman, who is directly tied to DK, not Mario at all(though is clearly designed to be somewhat of a replacement for Mario in the DK Arcade games).

I would love to see Waluigi get some actual starring roles beyond a single starter villain role(Dance Dance Revolution: Mario Mix) too, likewise beyond his story roles in some spin-offs(Mario Party 3, for instance), but it seems pretty unlikely anyway they'll do much beyond having him as a simple character to use among many fun additions to various spin-off titles, etc.

It's pretty obvious that the devs don't add characters unless they have something for them to add mechanically when even Luigi can be absent from mainline games on launch or even entirely. And when it comes to making new mechanics, there's a high preference to adding new characters to use them rather than finding old characters that could do so. Bowser's like, pretty much the only exception here.

That being said, the idea that Waluigi doesn't fit into WarioWare is silly. Waluigi is Wario's partner in crime who doesn't shy away from underhanded tactics in order to win, and when he loses anyway...eh, it's because they cheated. As you said, this is an extremely baseline concept that isn't at all fleshed out, but that's good, actually. It means they can do whatever they want with him. Do they want to pair him up with Wario? Done. Do they not? They can make up literally anything about what he does when he's not on the field/track/board. Heck, they could even just pick one of the spin-offs and make it his "thing", or he could be just like Wario and always have some sort of scheme cooking related to the spin-offs he's known to be in. Like, maybe in one game he's trying to cheat win at a tennis tournament and the next he's a mechanic who "fixes" cars with percussive maintenance. Maybe he's super unlucky and that's why he can never get anywhere with his schemes.

Wario Land would be a bit more difficult since it's harder to see him in a support role there, but he'd probably work as a second playable character if they were to go for it. WarioWare though, yeah the only reason he's not there is because they don't want him to be there/feel like adding him. There's just so much you could do there.

 

[Perkilator]

Boys had their fun last year with Shadow the Hedgehog. Now it’s real men’s turn.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

 

[fogbadge]

It seems that the team behind the new Famicom Detective Club games thinks the franchise has more room to grow.

Good to hear?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Boys had their fun last year with Shadow the Hedgehog. Now it’s real men’s turn.

There was a problem fetching this tweet​

All these posts reacting to tweets the site won't load for me are hilarious. lol

 

[PersonAngelo53]

Mario, Kirby, Sonic, and other characters who didn't fit in didn't make it into the Project X Zone series, but Klonoa and the rest of the Klonoa series characters, even though they didn't fit into Namco × Capcom, were put there.

Haha, yeah really weird that they made an exception for Klonoa but not Sonic etc.

 

[Ivander]

Boys had their fun last year with Shadow the Hedgehog. Now it’s real men’s turn.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Eevee will get a new Eeveelution for the first time in 12 years and it will be a Steel Gold Eeveelution that requires the player to have 999 Eevee coins to evolve, and will use a board like Alolan Raichu.

 

[Stratos]

Haha, yeah really weird that they made an exception for Klonoa but not Sonic etc.

Yes, they even included Taizo Hori from the Dig Dug series, but with a more action-oriented design. Here's the image of Taizo Hori from Namco × Capcom:

 

[PersonAngelo53]

Yes, they even included Taizo Hori from the Dig Dug series, but with a more action-oriented design. Here's the image of Taizo Hori from Namco × Capcom:
View attachment 397488

That’s pretty cool not gonna lie.

 

[Golden Icarus]

At this point I do believe Waluigi getting his own spin-off is more likely than him ever appearing in a mainline Mario.

I could absolutely see a Waluigi dating sim rhythm game inspired by his Super Mario Party minigame. He has a flashy and even somewhat “romantic” side that has been emphasized pretty consistently (being a main boss in DDR, dancing and twirling for victory animations, his rose). His long limbs and jerky movements just make him fun to watch and even easy to watch if you’re making a game that involves repeating the movements of a character on-screen.

He has enough popularity and notoriety that there wouldn’t be much risk in putting his face on a $30 rhythm game developed by a smaller studio.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Boys had their fun last year with Shadow the Hedgehog. Now it’s real men’s turn.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Let's just get this out of the way now.

 

[BuckleyTim]

The eternal problem for Waluigi is that he's a product of Camelot Software. I don't mind Nintendo's studios ultimately not working with stuff they didn't make, but since Camelot is stuck in the Mario sports mines indefinitely it does mean his best chances to have any sort of spotlight are if they give the Mario license out to other external devs again a la Mario + rabbids.

 

[Perkilator]

View attachment 397489


Let's just get this out of the way now.

I know, I know, it was a gag.

 

[chocolatejr9]

View attachment 397489


Let's just get this out of the way now.

raises hand back up

 

[Speed Weed]

Haha, yeah really weird that they made an exception for Klonoa but not Sonic etc.

Well it's not like Klonoa continued to show up in PxZ. He only ever appeared in Namco x Capcom, so the later games were still consistent about this. Also, IIRC, wasn't the whole thing with Klonoa in NxC constantly revolving around/joking about how he didn't fit with the other characters?

 

[Ivander]

raises hand back up

Text

 

[fogbadge]

Yes, they even included Taizo Hori from the Dig Dug series, but with a more action-oriented design. Here's the image of Taizo Hori from Namco × Capcom:
View attachment 397488

looks like drake redcrest

 

[HyperSomari64]

Mario, Kirby, Sonic, and other characters who didn't fit in didn't make it into the Project X Zone series, but Klonoa and the rest of the Klonoa series characters, even though they didn't fit into Namco × Capcom, were put there.

Also Pac-Man and classic Mega Man, but that's just me.

 

[Captain Shwampy]

Waluigi wasn't designed by Nintendo EPD, he was designed by Camelot thus you will never see him appear in anything but spin offs. Same rule applies for for Wario, Wario Land was a separate team of creatives in R&D1 that moved on to doing Wario Ware when the SPD team for it was born, thus you wont see Wario in a mainline 2D/3D Mario game.
Dev teams don't tend to like using character they didn't make, it requires going through proper channels, permissions, and discussion, its a pain in the ass.

Same reason why Hashino's Persona games don't reference Persona 1 and 2 or why Sonic Team was afraid to use Compile era characters in Puyo for a long time. Different team of creatives involved.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I don't need a Waluigi game, no idea what that would even be.

Waluigi's Wrecking Crew.

Retro Nintendo franchise gets a revival. Waluigi gets his own thematically appropriate game, and a moveset.

Win-win-win.

 

[PersonAngelo53]

Am starting to lose hope on the switch 2 being released this week or any time soon at this point unfortunately. Already 12:00PM here and Nintendo has been completely quite with any news. And some rumors are pointing on getting a non switch 2 direct or news soon. This sucks can’t believe Nintendo is gonna make us wait so much . At this point I just want the switch 2 to be revealed so we can get some big games announced already, kind of tired of the mostly remakes and remasters we been getting in the past year on the switch.

 

[RileyXY1]

Waluigi wasn't designed by Nintendo EPD, he was designed by Camelot thus you will never see him appear in anything but spin offs. Same rule applies for for Wario, Wario Land was a separate team of creatives in R&D1 that moved on to doing Wario Ware when the SPD team for it was born, thus you wont see Wario in a mainline 2D/3D Mario game.
Dev teams don't tend to like using character they didn't make, it requires going through proper channels, permissions, and discussion, its a pain in the ass.

Same reason why Hashino's Persona games don't reference Persona 1 and 2 or why Sonic Team was afraid to use Compile era characters in Puyo for a long time. Different team of creatives involved.

Yep. That also explains why there was no Persona 1 or 2 content in Smash.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Same rule applies for for Wario, Wario Land was a separate team of creatives in R&D1 that moved on to doing Wario Ware when the SPD team for it was born, thus you wont see Wario in a mainline 2D/3D Mario game.

finally

someone else acknowledges Wario is basically a spinoff only character too

 

[HyperSomari64]

Isn't Mario Land 2 mainline? While Wario is the final boss, he's still canon.
If not, then it would be in the same line as Sonic Chaos and Triple Trouble, but Sega's nutty with Sonic's timeline.

 

[fogbadge]

Isn't Mario Land 2 mainline? While Wario is the final boss, he's still canon.
If not, then it would be in the same line as Sonic Chaos and Triple Trouble, but Sega's nutty with Sonic's timeline.

those sonic lore consultants must take some loooooooooong breaks

 

[Louie G.]

I always thought the Wario Bros would be a natural fit for a Mario & Luigi RPG, and I feel like that’s still the biggest missed opportunity for Waluigi. In contrast to the Bros Attacks, these two would just trip over and inflict slapstick violence on one another. Would make for hilarious recurring rivals to interrupt the Bros at the most inopportune time.

And I actually think Waluigi could have a great, similar role in a new Wario Land game too. Imagine a co-op platformer where the two go treasure hunting, but you can also choose to make it a competitive experience where you’re underhandedly sabotaging your partner to take the treasure for yourself. I imagine it being kind of the natural evolution of how people used to screw around in NSMBW.

Having said that, I don’t think Waluigi needs to be all that much more than he currently is either. It would be appreciated for sports games to continue to make him and Wario the petty antagonists like they often are in Tennis, this at least allows the two to stand out some and exercise their comedic chops. But Waluigi doesn’t really have anything to prove otherwise. The mainline games have no place for him (or Wario, at this point) and he’s been a part of the spin-offs for plenty long to be a notable staple in his own right.

I feel like the drive to give Waluigi his own game or whatever comes partially from an insecurity with liking a relatively minor character, and furthermore a projection of imaginary standards for Smash criteria. 25 years adjacent to the most iconic video game characters of all time in some of the best selling games of all time gives Waluigi a solid pedigree even still. Not to say people don’t actually want a Waluigi game, I’d play it if they made it, but I always thought it felt like a leap.

 

[CommanderZaktan]

I feel like at least Waluigi should appear in the Wario games outside of cameos.

Like Warioware? Either being a demolitionist or a shyster, conman.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Waluigi should be a bootlegger that makes cheap knockoffs of Wario's microgames.

 

[Royaru]

It seems that the team behind the new Famicom Detective Club games thinks the franchise has more room to grow.

They said something similar a few months ago, but at this point it seems more than confirmed that Famicom Detective Club is becoming an active franchise. If they follow the release schedule we have so far, the next installment should be out in 2027. I guess now we can start seriously considering Ayumi Tachibana or Ninten Taro for the next Smash.

On the other hand, there are a couple of details from the interview that I find VERY interesting. On the one hand, Nintendo had no problem giving the green light to a more mature project, perhaps this could open the door to more scary games or darker experiences?

On the other hand, if FDC has been able to return, I don't think it's unreasonable to think that many franchises could return in the coming years. You were recently talking about Custom Robo, and although I think the rumor is 100% fake, I don't think it's unreasonable that Custom Robo could return soon.
I mean; it has a relatively short story mode (10-20 hours), and a VERY powerful multiplayer component, which could easily be updated with more weapons, scenarios, robots, etc. Same as with Kid Icarus: Uprising. In general, both franchises could follow in the footsteps of Splatoon, I suppose.