MK destroy's G&W. Let me teach you.

[Nic64]

I'm aware that everyone hates MK and that a lot of people do want him banned, I'm just saying I don't think this changes anything. maybe it's only because I never considered GAW to be on equal ground with MK, but even discounting that, I don't think it changes MK's dominance. getting this out in the open might empower some newer, intermediate MK players a bit more, but no more so than just telling them "analyze the matchup". actually getting them to do their own analysis might be more effective seeing as any GAW player that reads this now has some idea of what an MK might try to counter them. it's always great to get good advice like this but eventually you're going to hit a wall where you need to think for yourself

 

[Ulevo]

No, M2K is right. If you look around in the character boards and the tacitcal boards, ther's a really anti-MKish atmosphere. People expect him to be banned sooner or later. And it sucks 'cuz ppl stop trying to beat him and become better. Pansies

This.

10MetaKnights

 

[xYz]

i'm pretty sure hylian is now playing MK alot now, so why would he want him banned??

oh and to calibur, yea you would know FL mk's suck because you're mad good right?? pfft.

Hylian, since fast FL has gotten some nasty MK's, and it was all thanks to analyzing
m2k's strategies. Some people that come off the top of my head are Master Raven/Redhalbred/ and Hrnut. Their all coming up strong as MK's i'm positive you would change you're response with another visit over here. I still think the match is even though.

 

[Dojo]

Hylian doesn't play MK all that much. He never brought him out except for friendlies at HOBO.

I used to hate this matchup. But there is really NOTHING that GW has on a smart MK. You just have to approach this match in a different manner.

 

[HRNUT (Honey Roasted)]

HAI GAIZ I HAVE A GREAT IDEA!!

Im gonna make a post to teach the most broken character in the game how to beat me easier!!!


lol.

ROFL...

 

[nintendoboyyy22]

If you are going to ban MK, then you are going to ban Snake right afterwards.

Therefore, there is no point in it.

 

[bludhoundz]

I don't really see the logic in that.

He's the 2nd best (tierwise, at least).. but he's a fairly distant second.

 

[infomon]

And he has bad match-ups. Also it's speculated that Snake is so high-up on the tier list because of MK.

 

[Anth0ny]

If you are going to ban MK, then you are going to ban Snake right afterwards.

Therefore, there is no point in it.

The inevitable "SNAKE IS NEXT LOL" post in every topic with MK being banned as a discussion topic.

No, he's not next. No-one is next. If MK is banned, no one else will. Snake still has bad matchups. So does everyone else. Therefore, unlike MK, they do not warrant a ban.

And thanks for the matchup info Hylian...or should I say M2K lolz.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

That's one of Yunas only arguments. Incidentally it's amazingly flawed

 

[Hylian]

If anyone else talks about banning MK I'm going to mark thier posts. It's not relevant at all so chill out.

And xYz, I play Redhalberd in tournament at Fast and beat him 2-0. I also played HRnut but he used snake >_>.

Anyways, you played M2K what..one match? I played him for HOURS. Just me and him. All night. Not to mention the insane amount of MK players in texas. I have tons of amazing MK experience, probably more then 99% of the country. I know the match-up very well and I doubt anyone could change my mind. The vast majority of MK players approach the match-up wrong. Take dojo for example. I used to beat him pretty easily. The last two times I played him in tournament he beat me pretty badly because he learned the match-up. MK is easy if they play the same way they play against every other character. Most MK's don't realize this.

 

[zaf]

i've been upbing g&w's bair
i dont share everything and barely post in other threads.

just cuz people tell you things it does not mean they are the only people who knew.

 

[The Halloween Captain]

I was a little confused about M2K's comments on the Olimar-MK matchup - Doesn't MK have a lot of attacks that screw up Olimar? - heck, Olimar can't smash-attack though MK's neutral a last I checked.

EDIT: because Olimar's Pikmin can be hit themselves, his high-priority attacks seem to often get stopped by the weakest repetitive multi-hit moves. Or maybe I'm getting mixed up; even though I should know more about Olimar, all his attacks look the same.

 

[Mew2King]

mk ****** olimar is a myth, all mk can do is hope olimar messes up his perfect camp

this goes for anyone without a projectile vs olimar, once you get into olimar you just **** him, but getting into a perfect camp is like mostly hoping they don't do the camp right or mess it up

 

[da K.I.D.]

MK not ****** anything is a myth

 

[Needle of Juntah]

ehhh i've played many many Mk's... i've beaten every mk in my state numerous times since brawl came out. And other OOS mk's (LeeHarris in a MM.)(SE MK's)
No one is as good as m2k's MK. Hylian, you're going to have to try this against me, and a other few good gw players. After getting beat by m2k in a friendly at fast, My whole way of seeing the mk vs gw match changed, but I haven't had any problems with other MK's after that day. So I dunno if you can already say the match is not even already.

bullseyeeee

 

[DanGR]

Generally speaking, pikmin attacks have low "priority", but great speed and amazing range. People tend to overlook that they have their own hurtbox though. People see Olimar as the target and attack him when really they need to try and focus on the pikmin in his attacks, and then on Olimar. When the smash community realizes this, every character's matchup against Olimar becomes easier.

 

[Crizthakidd]

lol i wish i knew this before. how close does the turtle have to be so u can hit him during bair?

should u aim ur shield down during the second hit of GW dair? it seems to shield poke me sometimes

 

[DanGR]

I thought MK's ftilt dealt with the turtle. Is that not enough?

 

[Plum]

Generally speaking, pikmin attacks have low "priority", but great speed and amazing range. People tend to overlook that they have their own hurtbox though. People see Olimar as the target and attack him when really they need to try and focus on the pikmin in his attacks, and then on Olimar. When the smash community realizes this, every character's matchup against Olimar becomes easier.

Another problem though is that a lot of people don't get in fast enough to punish the moments Olimar is down on pikmin, or if they are separated from him. Pikmin Pluck is surprisingly fast (if only he could pick that fast in the series... the hours spent having to pick all of the pikmin after a big kill or color change... ) and a lot of people give him the time to build up again. Olimar has one of the best ground games in the game, without a doubt. If you can get him in the air, just take advantage.

I have a lot of respect for you Hylian for posting this. These forums are about evolving metagame and strategy. And even if I don't like to say it, to advance the metagame of any other character, we must also advance MK's as well. If MK players only go around thinking G&W is a tough even match, then G&W's game against MK won't grow.

You have the right idea. Helping MK in the short run helps us in the long run

 

[DelxDoom]

use the chair >;o

 

[Gates]

use the chair >;o

You mean beat your opponent with the chair that you're sitting on until they are rendered unconscious?

That's actually the most consistent way I've heard of yet to beat MK players.

 

[DelxDoom]

to beat a smart mk player you need to be a smarter gw player.

 

[OverLade]

If anyone else talks about banning MK I'm going to mark thier posts. It's not relevant at all so chill out.

And xYz, I play Redhalberd in tournament at Fast and beat him 2-0. I also played HRnut but he used snake >_>.

Anyways, you played M2K what..one match? I played him for HOURS. Just me and him. All night. Not to mention the insane amount of MK players in texas. I have tons of amazing MK experience, probably more then 99% of the country. I know the match-up very well and I doubt anyone could change my mind. The vast majority of MK players approach the match-up wrong. Take dojo for example. I used to beat him pretty easily. The last two times I played him in tournament he beat me pretty badly because he learned the match-up. MK is easy if they play the same way they play against every other character. Most MK's don't realize this.

Incoming johns. XD

I beat you twice in Friendlies, as well as Needle of Juntahs GaW, and even though those were just friendlies, I didn't play anything like that in the tourney matches. I was nervous because It was my first real tournament and things were actually coming down to the wire so I was intimidated.

And I didn't know anything about the matchup then...at all. I had only played online previously, and only played one GaW with MK.

I know the match up a LOT better now, and if you come down to FL next time we can try it again.

 

[Lixivium]

mk ****** olimar is a myth, all mk can do is hope olimar messes up his perfect camp

this goes for anyone without a projectile vs olimar, once you get into olimar you just **** him, but getting into a perfect camp is like mostly hoping they don't do the camp right or mess it up

Isn't that true for every character though? By definition of "perfect camp"?

 

[DelxDoom]

olimar has best camp.

(well actually, there are a few better camping strats but yeah Olimar's is really good)

 

[DanGR]

Another problem though is that a lot of people don't get in fast enough to punish the moments Olimar is down on pikmin, or if they are separated from him. Pikmin Pluck is surprisingly fast (if only he could pick that fast in the series... the hours spent having to pick all of the pikmin after a big kill or color change... ) and a lot of people give him the time to build up again. Olimar has one of the best ground games in the game, without a doubt. If you can get him in the air, just take advantage.

Trust me, you shouldn't be able to take advantage of this. It takes 1.2 seconds to pluck 6 pikmin- 0.2 per pikmin, not to mention pluck canceling into attacks.

Edit: oh...uh...GaW, right. I'm still wondering why you guys don't just use ftilt against the bair.

 

[Deoxys]

oh...uh...GaW, right. I'm still wondering why you guys don't just use ftilt against the bair.

Yeah, why is Shuttle Loop the better move to use against it?

 

[shadowlink3]

all MKs ground game gets shut down by a perfect camping olimar

MK can just dair camp, try to land behind olimar, or tornado

however if he tries to Dair camp olimar can just up B him (or fair or up smash also sometimes work)

olimar blocks tornado really easily compared to most characters, and tornado does very little damage to olimar.

all MK can really do vs a perfect olimar do is hope olimar doesn't camp perfectly, or gimp him... infinite dimensional cape? lol

HEY!

=(

oli is pretty gay.

 

[CaliburChamp]

i'm pretty sure hylian is now playing MK alot now, so why would he want him banned??

oh and to calibur, yea you would know FL mk's suck because you're mad good right?? pfft.

Hylian, since fast FL has gotten some nasty MK's, and it was all thanks to analyzing
m2k's strategies. Some people that come off the top of my head are Master Raven/Redhalbred/ and Hrnut. Their all coming up strong as MK's i'm positive you would change you're response with another visit over here. I still think the match is even though.

I almost forgot about Master Raven. He's definitly good. And I'm decent with MK, I'm just looking into developing my other characters right now.

 

[Buuman]

Trust me, you shouldn't be able to take advantage of this. It takes 1.2 seconds to pluck 6 pikmin- 0.2 per pikmin, not to mention pluck canceling into attacks.

Edit: oh...uh...GaW, right. I'm still wondering why you guys don't just use ftilt against the bair.

Yeah, why is Shuttle Loop the better move to use against it?

Go back to page two. I stated an alternative to the up B. F tilt out of sheild

F tilt doesnt have as much range as the grounded Up B. Although if the GW doesnt space right, u can f tilt him after he

hits your sheild with the turtle

 

[Crizthakidd]

tips on falco/ like do i just play really defensive until chaingrabed then just survive the lazer spam? im talking about one of njs best falco too

 

[Mew2King]

Go back to page two. I stated an alternative to the up B. F tilt out of sheild

F tilt doesnt have as much range as the grounded Up B. Although if the GW doesnt space right, u can f tilt him after he

hits your sheild with the turtle

WRONG

F tilt has much more range, up B just has an invincibility frame on frame 5 (the hitframe) so if that collies with another hitbox it takes priority. That is how it works, the actual range of up B isn't very big.

 

[Buuman]

oh good point. Originally I just meant f tilt is a nice alternative as an out of sheild option or just using it if they misspaced the turtle

 

[8AngeL8]

Man, MK has it easy against GaW. I need M2K's skills to teach me how to beat him with Falco, lol.

 

[_Phloat_]

Man, MK has it easy against GaW. I need M2K's skills to teach me how to beat him with Falco, lol.

****it, please don't.

 

[xYz]

Hylian, i said since fast. I'm sure every MK in FL didn't know how to fight GW.
And I said one friendly with m2k, made me change my mind on how good MK was against GW. But I recently changed it back to MK being even with GW. I'm sure I could go to texas and beast against you're best MK's. But I guess we'll never know until it is tried. IMO, I still think its 50/50.

 

[Dojo]

Come to Texas and show me.

 

[grandmaster192]

I'm sure I could go to texas and beast against you're best MK's.

I like that attitude. XD

 

[Hylian]

Hylian, i said since fast. I'm sure every MK in FL didn't know how to fight GW.
And I said one friendly with m2k, made me change my mind on how good MK was against GW. But I recently changed it back to MK being even with GW. I'm sure I could go to texas and beast against you're best MK's. But I guess we'll never know until it is tried. IMO, I still think its 50/50.

I would like to see you touch Dojo with GW .