phi1ny3
Not the Mama
As much of a tangent this is, I'm intrigued, tell me more.
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Metaknights' Even matchups? Open discussion
- Thread starter LanceStern
- Start date
2-DJeff
Smash Master
Ima just laugh if Glutonny rolls up into apex(if he goes) and ****s on most metaknight players.
It wouldn't prove anything unless he ***** Ally/M2K. Gluttony is amazing. It'd just be him outplaying them all... because Gluttony is THAT good. Which goes back to my original point, that you can't use gluttony as an example vs MKs in Europe (or maybe even Europe in general) because he's just so much better than the rest.
2-DJeff
Smash Master
ok i understand what your saying. but still i dont think its 4:6
If that MU is not 4:6, then Wario has no bad MU's and is a god. Because that's probably his second hardest MU.
Dedede/Marth are pretty rough. After that, MK. There's no way MK is 55:45 with Wario, that's understating MK's advantages by quite a bit.
Dedede/Marth are pretty rough. After that, MK. There's no way MK is 55:45 with Wario, that's understating MK's advantages by quite a bit.
2-DJeff
Smash Master
what to wait and punish like he dose to every character?
Gnes
Smash Master
Dmg, just let them believe. I've seen the truth
I'm suprised that people still diddy is only slight disadvantage. Even seibrik who used to be by far the worst mk at the matchup 2-0ed wyatt at pound.
I'm suprised that people still diddy is only slight disadvantage. Even seibrik who used to be by far the worst mk at the matchup 2-0ed wyatt at pound.
2-DJeff
Smash Master
all i gotta say is **** the even mu **** just ban the *****
im cool with mks with IC but at the same time i hate seeing good players losing to mk
im cool with mks with IC but at the same time i hate seeing good players losing to mk
I mean yeah, but at the same time on a realistic level, Diddy probably has the highest hopes for beating MK. IC's are too demanding of a character for someone realistically pick them up to the level that can reliably go toe to toe with MK. Snake... well he has his **** to worry about. Falco might get there one day if the stage list goes down a bit. Besides that, basically Diddy and maybe Marth if you play really ****ing good.
MK... oh MK....
I'm still trying to figure out how Falco or Pikachu go even with MK. I can see Diddy... but just not the other two.
Steam
Smash Hero
Steam
Smash Hero
John12346
Smash Master
I can legitimately see Falco going even with MK on FD
But MK can just strike and ban it
bleugh
But MK can just strike and ban it
bleugh
Orion*
Smash Researcher
Diddy isn't the closest match-up to even for MK ... maybe in theory but at this point it's hard to support this idea. At the moment it's solidly in MK's favor [totally not taking the fact into account that the MK player base is a lot more talented than the Diddy player base]. I still think Snake goes even with MK if he really plays on point but Snake's player base is also kind of pitiful so we won't see it a lot. Falco ... I can't really make my mind up in regards to him *shrug*
I think if there's an order of match-ups that are even or close to it I'd say it's Fox then Snake and then Falco or GW. I do think Olimar, Marth, Wolf, Wario, Diddy are all about -1 as well [possibly -2 for Marth and Wario].
I think if there's an order of match-ups that are even or close to it I'd say it's Fox then Snake and then Falco or GW. I do think Olimar, Marth, Wolf, Wario, Diddy are all about -1 as well [possibly -2 for Marth and Wario].
Orion*
Smash Researcher
@ gheb wait?? GaW does good? LMAO
I think if the stage list was legit a lot more would go into effect also
Oli, and Fox immediately come to mind. Maybe Wolf, but I suck at the MU horribly so it's hard for me to judge :x.
MK beats Snake really solidly but you have to be so perfect to do it that it doesnt matter at anything but top level play, so it will never be recognized.
I played Solo and ***** him. Problem? WHERE IS YOUR LOGIC NOW?
*on lucario beating fox* I think it's due to priority really. Fox has to approach by getting above Lucario. Lucarios aura hitboxes zone Fox pretty hard. Also, I dont think Fox can punish things like Fsmash camping and tilts that reliably (because of the dumb lingering hitboxes). Lucario probably doesn't **** fox but it definitely seems more practical from his side of the matchup.
I think Falco beats Wario pretty badly as well. I also think Sheik probably beats Wario pretty badly...
He still isn't good at the matchup imo. I'm still trying to figure out how he beat Wyatt
I think him and Falco are about the same. I dont have enough experience with top Falco players but I think it's clear that MK beats Diddy and Falco at least 55:45. One may be worse than the other...
Meh, I dont think it's that solidly. I think people underrate Snake a lil too much in this matchup.
Falco is debatable since we can at least CG him/build up fart, and get him offstage or get him in a bad position after Uthrow. Wario also has actual CP's to take Falco to, where as MK tends to negate his advantages (RC Brinstar Frigate Delfino Halberd etc there's nothing good). There are tangible advantages Wario has over Falco that he doesn't have over MK. I mean if you call farting on MK at 60 and hoping it kills to be an advantage, then yeah lol.
Shiek is weird as well. I don't think it's a good MU, but I think it's probably even when you throw 2 ******s together.
Shiek is weird as well. I don't think it's a good MU, but I think it's probably even when you throw 2 ******s together.
Two things happened:
1. Wario and Peach players agreed on +1 for her, and it was put to +2.
2. Wario and Dedede players agreed on +2 for Dedede, and it was put at +1.
Dunno if those two were related, but yeah those two were flopped from what both sides agreed on.
1. Wario and Peach players agreed on +1 for her, and it was put to +2.
2. Wario and Dedede players agreed on +2 for Dedede, and it was put at +1.
Dunno if those two were related, but yeah those two were flopped from what both sides agreed on.
2-DJeff
Smash Master
Red im pretty sure i just agreed with DMG. If you camp wario and dont strike until he dose you will win. that applys with a good myjority of the cast. play glutonny since you want a challege with wario
I dont camp against Wario. You don't have to. If you space well enough with your aerials you can play mildly aggressive and still be perfectly safe from Farts for the most part. And telling me to play Glutonny is like irrelevant he's clearly a far superior player to me. If he beat me it wouldn't prove anything...
2-DJeff
Smash Master
im just saying play him since your so good at the MU. Also yea you do kinda do that. when i was watching you play solo/sax etc...
Steam
Smash Hero
fox outcamps lucario. lucario spends the entire match trying to chase fox down.
and Fsmash is essentially useless against fox as lucario. Fox can punish it from basically anywhere with upsmash... even spaced on shield. and lucario would zone out fox with tilts well... if lucario didn't always have to approach. that and fox kills reliably and early with upsmash.
Fox is almost as bad for lucario as snake. bout 6:4 fox
seriously jeff? this is just where I cut the line bro. Ur acknowledging that solo is some god or something and that everyone else on these forums know less than you? I really doubt solo is better than masky and if he is, id like to see him beat me if he were to actually accept an MM unlike refusing like last time lol. MK or DDD, his choice.
MK>Wario Arguably 55-45, maybe 60-40.
I read the last few posts on here, DDD mu>wario. 60-40, could be argued 70-30.
omg, I would say this myself, but this quote is too perfect that it does it for me. Maybe I should sig this.
2-DJeff
Smash Master
Edit: ima just leave it alone I said what I think people can cry about it all they want. But for the record dewdadash didn't **** solo amd solo was drunk and red halberd be solo all games only 2 and one stock. And all these matches were friendlys which don't mean anything. I'm done.
Browny
Smash Hater
oh ffs will this EVER end
by the time lucario is in KO% of the usmash, his tilts and fsmash are safe on block from it. that includes horribly spaced fsmash as close as possible, ftilt cant be punished by anything slower than foxes ftilt.
I cant beleive I have to turn on brawl again to prove this to myself.
3+ years and people still ignore the critical factor of lucario getting safer as his % goes up and suddenly all these 'guaranteed' options against him are actually not even possible.
Host Change
Smash Ace
As a Falco main I think the Falco vs MK matchup is pretty well balanced. Falco can be difficult to approach with his lasers and he's got the reflector too to push MK away. Close up he has great options as well and can rival MK.
Fox can be looked at in a similar light to Falco.
I'm not sure I would say that Snake is an "even" matchup though. I would say its 55/45 in MK's favor. Snake in the air=epic fail for him. Once MK can get him off the ground, Snake gets pretty much owned.
As for Pika and Diddy, I don't really have much to add to that except that they are decent against him.
Fox can be looked at in a similar light to Falco.
I'm not sure I would say that Snake is an "even" matchup though. I would say its 55/45 in MK's favor. Snake in the air=epic fail for him. Once MK can get him off the ground, Snake gets pretty much owned.
As for Pika and Diddy, I don't really have much to add to that except that they are decent against him.