I'm being 100% serious.
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Metaknights' Even matchups? Open discussion
- Thread starter LanceStern
- Start date
Steam
Smash Hero
not sure if serious...
Steam
Smash Hero
I'm not even trolling.
but yeah. you're insane I guess.
but yeah. you're insane I guess.
Steam
Smash Hero
I think we should go around swf asking people how many of them think MK has 7 55-45 matchups. and of course the even MU with himself.
And_Man
Smash Cadet
Nah. Metaknight beats Metaknight 60:40
CelestialMarauder~
Smash Ace
Im especially not sure because Yoshi was on that list. Chuee you're not serious right?
Steam
Smash Hero
yeah this. This isn't even the "yoshi is a MK counter" fad period anymore. It's hilarious watching yoshi try to recover against MK. or helpless if you're yoshi...
Steam
Smash Hero
there's a bit of a difference between +1 and 55-45
but still... iffy
but still... iffy
55-45 equates to a +/-1 to me.
Thebest1pj
Pinnacle of Projectile Placement.
Once again steam is continually posting in a thread.
Yup, I think TKD is just a god tier player. He could beat the people he beats if he mained any top tier character.Halberd, do you actually think Yoshi is a harder match-up for MK than Fox? 0_o
I think only most of these hold true at high level really. It takes high level players to punish a lot of the generic MK stuff to begin with. So how well people do against good vs great MKs begins to saturate once general stuff is being punished hard enough already and it starts coming down to playstyle and matchup knowledge over skill necessarily.
For example MK fox is like 60/40 at Mid/high level but at top level it's probably more like 50/50. Fox has decently fast enough options to punish most things but anyone outside of TKD won't be able to react fast and precisely enough to punish and read a lot of the finer things. Same goes for Marth. Imo at top possible level Marth is probably better vs MK than Snake is, because he has more practical punishments for everything MK does. But that's just theorycraft since we dont' have a Marth player of that level in the US, but it does apply to a lot of matchups at levels we can observe here.
MK beats Yoshi, but sure as hell does NOT **** him. Where is the evidence for this? Show me a video of a MK player ****** a good Yoshi. All I hear is Yoshi players (besides Polt) *****ing about this matchup but I haven't seen anything to the contrary.
Are people seriously still using the "TKD is god tier" argument when it comes to MK vs Fox? There are more than enough wins from Fox mains against MK players other than him. Even without TKD I'd wager that Fox' results against MK outshine those of Yoshi.
Rubberbandman
Smash Champion
No, the MK MU for Icies at best is 6:4, looking at it being possibly leaning towards being worse.
Polt is the only Yoshi to do anything vs MK (besides GreenAce back in the day) but by himself he's pretty single handedly made the matchup look close. However I don't believe Polt is an outlier I just genuinely think other Yoshis aren't doing it right.Are people seriously still using the "TKD is god tier" argument when it comes to MK vs Fox? There are more than enough wins from Fox mains against MK players other than him. Even without TKD I'd wager that Fox' results against MK outshine those of Yoshi.
And anyone who can 2 stock low percent Tyr@nt is god tier. This is non-arguable lol.
MK plays who actually know how to mix up their blizzard and Uair Desyncs make the matchup incredibly difficult, it just requires incredible execution on the part of the player. Anything less and the matchup is bad, but there seem to be tangible ways to keep MK out otherwise.
Death Arcana
Rum is for Drinking
I remember him saying his opinion on it got worse after Pound V.
That match was the only time TKD ever beat him that bad.
Their matches are always close, and Tyrant won the last time they played.
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
Lucario has a matchup advantage vs Fox imo.
OKAY YOU WIN MY ARGUEMENT IS INVALID. I'M CLEARLY JUST INSTIGATING.
No, shutup, I'm right. Clearly.
Steam
Smash Hero
Errrrrrrrr...
2-DJeff
Smash Master
this is correct to a certian exstent I totally agree with this execpt Uair Desyncs. That is a high gamble. If one whiffs at the wrong spot thats a gimp on IC players.
But any how IC vs MK at brinstar can range from 35-65 to 45-55
IC vs MK at RC 35-65 at worst
IC vs MK at Frigate 40-60 to 45-55 all depends what part of the stage your on.
IC vs MK at Delfino is 40-60 to 45-55 also
This is without planking/stalling.ifmk can plank with no limit dont go IC lmao
This fight is all stage dependant. Ive beaten a **** load of MKs at these stages. the way i look at it is if olimar can do it so can IC.
When you asked for advice, I was going to tell you that Uair desyncs is the one thing you do wrong in the MK matchup, making you incredibly easy to get with dairs and tornado. You HAVE to desync Uairs to keep MK out because smart MKs will never dair you shield. They'll just use Nado to shieldpoke you then gimp nana.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FE2HzxNevsc
Prime example of how to play the matchup game 1.
2-DJeff
Smash Master
IMO i think wario/olimar(on neutrals)/falco are the closest to going even with MK
2-DJeff
Smash Master
are you serious? wario has great comeback factor on MK and im pretty sure i said "IMO"
2-DJeff
Smash Master
you guys play with a run away wario dewdadash so you really wouldnt know. just like when publix said to me that he knows the wario MU very well because he beat masky. Maskey= time out wario player.
Then he played solo and what happen? he lost pretty bad ill admit though it did go to game 3 but the games publix lost were pretty bad.
Solo=in your face wario
same with glutonny
Glutonny=in your face wario
***** mks
im not even going to argue this. its imo lol
Then he played solo and what happen? he lost pretty bad ill admit though it did go to game 3 but the games publix lost were pretty bad.
Solo=in your face wario
same with glutonny
Glutonny=in your face wario
***** mks
im not even going to argue this. its imo lol
lmao @ using gluttony as a reason. He's so much better than every MK in Europe it's ridiculous. (Please note, not saying Europe is bad. Just that Gluttony is ridiculous)
EDIT: It'd be like M2k or Ally or Havok coming and ****** Solo and using that as evidence for the MU being terrible.
EDIT: It'd be like M2k or Ally or Havok coming and ****** Solo and using that as evidence for the MU being terrible.
Conviction
Human Nature
I thought the exact same thing
Yeah, and as someone who plays Wario all the time in both singles and doubles, I can tell you that frankly a lot of times you have to straight up outsmart the other guy to get in. You wanna know how BS it is for Wario to get in MK's face when half of his **** OUTRIGHT frame traps Wario? Or how Wario has no move that is safe on his shield besides attacking him from below when he's on a platform above you.
And you know what ***** in your face style? Camping your balls off or abusing your range/speed while retreating.
Point to a MK camping the **** out of Gluttony. Go on, I dare you. MAYBE Orion vs Gluttony... MAYBE. Gluttony is good, REALLY good. But you would be straight up lying if you said he has to deal with "Walk around frame trap defensive BS" MK style.
You are entitled to your opinion. But as someone in the actual shoes OF the character you claim to go even, I'm telling you my opinion that Wario is not a character you should look towards for going even with MK. You are better off learning Snake, Diddy, and Falco anyday of the week before learning Wario to deal with MK.
Steam
Smash Hero
replace all of them with MK
2-DJeff
Smash Master
C.J. i was using solo and masky as 2 diffrent styles of playing wario in genral. smh lol i wasnt even comparing him to the MU at all im just saying theres 2 diffrent styles of wario.
Run away and in your face.
publix dosnt even play MK
@DMG I play wario 2. My brother plays wario as a main also. I know how it is but its not as bad as your saying it is. The MU if definately beter than IC or snake
Your right about the camping thing but thats like every character trying to fight mk without a good projectile.
The MU sucks. 6:4 MK favor is being conservative IMO. Even then if you were to label it as simply 6/4, there are other characters you could argue go 55:45 or at absolute worst 6:4 with MK. Those are the characters I would list for going even with MK, hence my displeasure with you naming Wario as "one of the group" when you have characters like Diddy Snake Falco etc.
2-DJeff
Smash Master
diddy cant even make it back onto the stage if knocked off by top players like Anti/redhalberd/meroknight...etc. falco yes that is a 45-55 ill agree to that. but snake? i cant really say anymore