Jupz
Smash Master
Yeah I knew about the Usmash. And sometimes when performing it I grab MK with super armor. Thanks.
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Meta Knight's Revenge: The Official Match-Up Thread *Wario* -> GO
- Thread starter OverLade
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FB Dj_Iskascribble
Frostbitten
anthers put me in it a few times before its real XD
vicious1990
Smash Apprentice
the pika matchup is a hassle.
Cold Fusion
ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ﾉ JIGGLYPUFF OR RIOT ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ﾉ
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- 836
Roxas1988
Smash Journeyman
Ok that was uncalled for. And i hate fighting good pika's cuz i really dont have much experience against fighting good one's. In the end Sonic always gets me through.
Cold Fusion
ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ﾉ JIGGLYPUFF OR RIOT ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ﾉ
- Joined
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I figured it was. Anyways, will there just be random discussions going on at once?
Roxas1988
Smash Journeyman
Who knows man. No one has discussions with match-ups or anything?
Jupz
Smash Master
I need help with the DK matchup.
His Ftilt just beats everything we have on the ground. You can space Dairs diagonally above him but he kills so much earlier then us.
Thanks.
His Ftilt just beats everything we have on the ground. You can space Dairs diagonally above him but he kills so much earlier then us.
Thanks.
Max Ketchum
Collegiate Starleague Smash Director
Ftilt doesn't beat shieldgrab. DK sucks against MK's throws (forward and down). Pop him up in the air and continuously juggle him with uairs and tornado. His landing options suck. There shouldn't be any trouble getting him to 160 for an easy dsmash kill.
Jupz
Smash Master
Ok, thanks Termina/Doom.
Max Ketchum
Collegiate Starleague Smash Director
Just Doom is fine. 
Nobody calls me Termina, I just changed my SWF name because "theDoom" is ********.
Nobody calls me Termina, I just changed my SWF name because "theDoom" is ********.
Toronto Joe
Smash Master
pika vs mk is actually pretty tough
"TheDoom" inspires fear in your opponents and you can laugh as they cower at your posts after reading your name.Just Doom is fine.
Max Ketchum
Collegiate Starleague Smash Director
lololol. Well, Termina means the same thing, just in Latin. Plus, it's a Majora's Mask reference, which is super special awesome. "Doom" has been taken since 2002 by some dude who hasn't logged in SINCE. Ironically, he has a Majora's Mask avatar.
Jupz
Smash Master
LOL, thats wierd.
Yeah Pika matchup isn't that easy. What are the best counterpicks against him? Luigis?
Yeah Pika matchup isn't that easy. What are the best counterpicks against him? Luigis?
Deoxys
Smash Lord
Luigi's Mansion is almost never allowed in counterpicks, for some stupid reason. I think it's because ******** TOs would only use a 7 minute timer, and then be astonished when Plank was able to run the clock down for the last minute against a R.O.B. on Luigi's Mansion. I'm thinking I'd counterpick RC or Brinstar, depending on what they ban.
What is a "Jump cancel throw?"ADHD said:
Also, I have to say that I don't think Castle Siege deserves to be on the list of viable counterpicks against Diddy.
I'm pretty sure that if MK DIs up and away he can Dair or something before you can get the grab off. Unless you mean it simply allows for a mindgame for another Dthrow.KSizzle said:
Tin Man
Smash Hero
whats the match-up ratio on Pikachu supposed to be?
Jump Canceld Throw.
You can throw out of running animations.
Your input a jump and immediatly throw the item afterwards.
The jump cancels your run animation and the first frames of the jump can be canceld into a throw without leaving the ground.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVQf5k4fBck
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIz-CjP3N4U
You can throw out of running animations.
Your input a jump and immediatly throw the item afterwards.
The jump cancels your run animation and the first frames of the jump can be canceld into a throw without leaving the ground.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVQf5k4fBck
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIz-CjP3N4U
Popertop
Smash Champion
if the MK di's up then its a free Uair > Shuttle loop chain
Deoxys
Smash Lord
Not when it's up and away.
Llumys
Smash Champion
30/70-10/90 (Red) -Big Disadvantage
40/60-35/65 (Orange) -Disadvantage
I lol'd.
40/60-35/65 (Orange) -Disadvantage
I lol'd.
Affinity
Smash Hero
I'll let DanGR know.
Deoxys
Smash Lord
Edit: nevermind
Deoxys
Smash Lord
Nic64
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2003
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- 1,725
I hate this board so much.
Jim Morrison
Smash Authority
So let's talk about Pit.
Cold Fusion
ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ﾉ JIGGLYPUFF OR RIOT ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ﾉ
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And how they smell real bad?
Jim Morrison
Smash Authority
I'm not sure, I'm always having trouble getting past his edgeguarding when placed correctly, with mortars and grenades :/
Then again, I'm playing on wifi. I'll lay off this till 2 weeks from now, I'll attend my first tournament then :O
Then again, I'm playing on wifi. I'll lay off this till 2 weeks from now, I'll attend my first tournament then :O
Max Ketchum
Collegiate Starleague Smash Director
Snake can limit MK's options on the edge ridiculously well.
MK ***** Pit.
MK ***** Pit.
Just try to get to the edge.
Isnt that hard vs. Snake.
Then just camp there and wait for a possibility to get up or to trick your enemy.
Gliding far above the Snake is also save, if you pay attention for the mortars.
MK can limit MK´s options on the edge much better than Snake. ;D
TKD
Smash Lord
Meta Knight vs Fox.
The game goes like this: Fox blasters, you have to approach.
Ground game.
Meta Knight's ground game is so much better than Fox's. This should make him start jumping. His short-hop dair beats dsmash, ftilt, dtilt, sometimes nair, Mach Tornado if you start it too close. It also shield-pokes if your shield's been diminished an instant ago. But strangely, Fair is amazing against Fox. If spaced correctly (tippered), it's safe even on block. It also beats Fox's dair. So Meta Knight should rush into Fox and space Fair against him. If the Fox player insists on staying on the ground (probably by blocking), you can mix some grabs (walking or dashing) in there. You can't be predictable, as Dair beats grab attempts, and again, you shouldn't be close enough to Fox that his dair is safe even against a full shield.
MK in the air.
Don't Dair unless you're very high up in the air. If Fox is close enough to you that he can block the Dair, it's easy for him to full hop nair as a punish, sometimes even bair (which does 15-16% damage when fresh and KOs at very high percentage).
I recommend not to perform Mach Tornado in any situation. When you're in the air, it's simply because Fox doesn't have much trouble power-blocking the whole move, which then makes for an easy Dsmash/grab/Usmash punish. Usmash KOs at high %, so it's specially important not to take such a risk then. In the event that you do actually connect the move, usually Fox just pops out of it, which means you end up doing a miserable amount of damage to him, and although most of the time both regain a neutral position, sometimes he can even punish with the usual dsmash/grab, or small combos like dair/nair into utilt.
Fox in the air.
This is what the match is usually like. I believe Fox has a couple options in the air: Fast-fall air-dodge and fast-fall dair.
Fast-fall air-dodge will work if you perform most moves (specially aerials), which he'll punish with utilt. If you react incorrectly and hit him after he's able to block, he can utilt from block. If you stay blocking, he can either roll away or try to grab you. Blocking isn't that good, specially since a diminished block leaves you open to a shield-poke from his dair. If he spaces the air-dodge badly (way too near you), you can simply short-hop nair.
His dair is safe on block if he lands on your backside. If you attempt to punish with Nair, you'll miss and get hit by utilt. His dair is beaten by uair and retreating Fair. Still, if he falls while air-dodging instead of dairing, he can hit you.
In THIS situation, I say don't perform Mach Tornado because Fox can dair into another move (it's hard though), nair you from above or air-dodge out of range, powerblock or not, then punish. If you connect, again, most of the time you'll end up in a neutral position, the reward's not that big.
Edge-guarding.
Fox shouldn't be able to edge-guard you. Recover from below with jumps and Uair, or glide into the ledge. Drill rushing carelessly allows Fox to perform down B on you. It's not a big deal, unless he continues to hit you.
You should be able to edge-guard Fox. Nair beats illusion, actually all of your moves should beat that move. Firefox can be unpredictable, nothing one can do about that. Just try to hit Fox, there are situations in which he has to be hit so he DIs up to make himself able to recover.
KOing.
Fox is as light as Meta Knight. UpB is viable after 130% (not sure exactly when though). Dsmash his air-dodge, nair into him, it all works, and it all KOs.
CAMP if your shield is low (by planking a bit or performing retreating air-jump dairs). You don't want to be shield-poked by a dair into an usmash. Also stay away from Fox as dash usmash is the same thing. Fox can also air-dodge into Usmash, just be careful. When you're up in the air, he can either KO you with uair directly, or wait for you to air-dodge and THEN uair you. Bair KOs too, but it leaves Fox open. Dair,
bair and sometimes usmash can shield-poke.
Conclusion.
Fox is likely one of Meta Knight's hardest match-ups. I'll call it 60/40 right now (MK's favor, duh!).
I don't know all about this match-up, which to me, is the same as not knowing "enough" about it. There might be more things to know, but as it stands right now, I think it's likely that Meta Knight has the advantage against Fox even if it's small.
I'm confident that the skill level of Fox players in the U.S. can make this match-up 8/2 or better in MK's favor though, our skill gap's too big. So Fox shouldn't be anything to worry about right now.
About other match-up odds in this thread:
- MK ***** Lucario
- MK's dead even vs Snake
- MK beats Sonic harder
- MK ***** DDD
- MK beats IC (just my opinion though)
- MK ***** Wario (again just my opinion from watching fiction vs tyrant a while ago)
- R.O.B. shouldn't EVER beat MK (so it's not close like 6/4 >_>)
- MK beats Bowser harder (imo)
- Donkey Kong shouldn't ever beat MK (8/2 mk's favor maybe 9/1)
- Ike's horrible against MK (like Donkey, almost, maybe the same)
- MK beats Yoshi harder
- Pokémon Trainer doesn't have a match-up odd (Reflex thinks it's 7/3 MK, you should put it as that)
- MK beats toon link harder
- MK beats Peach harder (8/2 IMO, maybe 7/3)
- Kirby never beats MK (8/2~9/1, much has changed)
/\ top level of course, at mid level IC>MK and stuff like that
The game goes like this: Fox blasters, you have to approach.
Ground game.
Meta Knight's ground game is so much better than Fox's. This should make him start jumping. His short-hop dair beats dsmash, ftilt, dtilt, sometimes nair, Mach Tornado if you start it too close. It also shield-pokes if your shield's been diminished an instant ago. But strangely, Fair is amazing against Fox. If spaced correctly (tippered), it's safe even on block. It also beats Fox's dair. So Meta Knight should rush into Fox and space Fair against him. If the Fox player insists on staying on the ground (probably by blocking), you can mix some grabs (walking or dashing) in there. You can't be predictable, as Dair beats grab attempts, and again, you shouldn't be close enough to Fox that his dair is safe even against a full shield.
MK in the air.
Don't Dair unless you're very high up in the air. If Fox is close enough to you that he can block the Dair, it's easy for him to full hop nair as a punish, sometimes even bair (which does 15-16% damage when fresh and KOs at very high percentage).
I recommend not to perform Mach Tornado in any situation. When you're in the air, it's simply because Fox doesn't have much trouble power-blocking the whole move, which then makes for an easy Dsmash/grab/Usmash punish. Usmash KOs at high %, so it's specially important not to take such a risk then. In the event that you do actually connect the move, usually Fox just pops out of it, which means you end up doing a miserable amount of damage to him, and although most of the time both regain a neutral position, sometimes he can even punish with the usual dsmash/grab, or small combos like dair/nair into utilt.
Fox in the air.
This is what the match is usually like. I believe Fox has a couple options in the air: Fast-fall air-dodge and fast-fall dair.
Fast-fall air-dodge will work if you perform most moves (specially aerials), which he'll punish with utilt. If you react incorrectly and hit him after he's able to block, he can utilt from block. If you stay blocking, he can either roll away or try to grab you. Blocking isn't that good, specially since a diminished block leaves you open to a shield-poke from his dair. If he spaces the air-dodge badly (way too near you), you can simply short-hop nair.
His dair is safe on block if he lands on your backside. If you attempt to punish with Nair, you'll miss and get hit by utilt. His dair is beaten by uair and retreating Fair. Still, if he falls while air-dodging instead of dairing, he can hit you.
In THIS situation, I say don't perform Mach Tornado because Fox can dair into another move (it's hard though), nair you from above or air-dodge out of range, powerblock or not, then punish. If you connect, again, most of the time you'll end up in a neutral position, the reward's not that big.
Edge-guarding.
Fox shouldn't be able to edge-guard you. Recover from below with jumps and Uair, or glide into the ledge. Drill rushing carelessly allows Fox to perform down B on you. It's not a big deal, unless he continues to hit you.
You should be able to edge-guard Fox. Nair beats illusion, actually all of your moves should beat that move. Firefox can be unpredictable, nothing one can do about that. Just try to hit Fox, there are situations in which he has to be hit so he DIs up to make himself able to recover.
KOing.
Fox is as light as Meta Knight. UpB is viable after 130% (not sure exactly when though). Dsmash his air-dodge, nair into him, it all works, and it all KOs.
CAMP if your shield is low (by planking a bit or performing retreating air-jump dairs). You don't want to be shield-poked by a dair into an usmash. Also stay away from Fox as dash usmash is the same thing. Fox can also air-dodge into Usmash, just be careful. When you're up in the air, he can either KO you with uair directly, or wait for you to air-dodge and THEN uair you. Bair KOs too, but it leaves Fox open. Dair,
bair and sometimes usmash can shield-poke.
Conclusion.
Fox is likely one of Meta Knight's hardest match-ups. I'll call it 60/40 right now (MK's favor, duh!).
I don't know all about this match-up, which to me, is the same as not knowing "enough" about it. There might be more things to know, but as it stands right now, I think it's likely that Meta Knight has the advantage against Fox even if it's small.
I'm confident that the skill level of Fox players in the U.S. can make this match-up 8/2 or better in MK's favor though, our skill gap's too big. So Fox shouldn't be anything to worry about right now.
About other match-up odds in this thread:
- MK ***** Lucario
- MK's dead even vs Snake
- MK beats Sonic harder
- MK ***** DDD
- MK beats IC (just my opinion though)
- MK ***** Wario (again just my opinion from watching fiction vs tyrant a while ago)
- R.O.B. shouldn't EVER beat MK (so it's not close like 6/4 >_>)
- MK beats Bowser harder (imo)
- Donkey Kong shouldn't ever beat MK (8/2 mk's favor maybe 9/1)
- Ike's horrible against MK (like Donkey, almost, maybe the same)
- MK beats Yoshi harder
- Pokémon Trainer doesn't have a match-up odd (Reflex thinks it's 7/3 MK, you should put it as that)
- MK beats toon link harder
- MK beats Peach harder (8/2 IMO, maybe 7/3)
- Kirby never beats MK (8/2~9/1, much has changed)
/\ top level of course, at mid level IC>MK and stuff like that
Max Ketchum
Collegiate Starleague Smash Director
TKD, when have you been exposed to top level gameplay? Mexico is not a strong region as far as I know, and I haven't seen you in SoCal results for a long time. Also, SoCal lacks the top players of all the characters you listed except Wario... EC has the best DDDs, Sonics, ROBs, DKs and Kirbies, the best Toon Link, PT and Yoshi, and top Lucarios/Ikes. Also, videos are not recorded all the time and don't tell the entirety of a matchup. I'm not trying to be a ****, I'm asking a serious question.
Imo, matchup ratios are kinda bull****, but here are my thoughts on every character:
Snake- Dead even
Wario- Small but noticeable MK advantage
Falco- Dead even or VEEEEEEEEEEERY tiny MK advantage
Diddy Kong- Dead even
King Dedede- Pretty bad for Dedede
Marth- Slight to decent MK advantage
Mr. Game & Watch- Bad
Pikachu- Decent advantage
Olimar- Small advantage
Ice Climbers- Dead even
R.O.B.- Noticeable MK advantage
Kirby- Really bad
Lucario- Smallish MK advantage
Zero Suit Samus- Not awful but still kinda bad
Toon Link- Same as ZSS
Pit- Same as TL/ZSS
Donkey Kong- AWFUL
Peach- Bad
Luigi- Pretty bad
Fox- Pretty bad
Wolf- Minor advantage
Sonic- Minor advantage
Sheik- Pretty bad
Bowser- Bad
Zelda- REEEEEEEALLY bad
Squirtle- Small advantage, Ivysaur- lol, Charizard- Small advantage (overall regular old "bad")
Ike- Quite awful
Lucas- Bad
Mario- Decently bad
Ness- Small advantage
Yoshi- Small advantage, maybe close to even
Samus- Small advantage, SUPER SUPER SUPER stage dependent
Jigglypuff- Really bad
Captain Falcon- Awful
Link- lol
Ganondorf- 0/100 Ganon's favor
Imo, matchup ratios are kinda bull****, but here are my thoughts on every character:
Snake- Dead even
Wario- Small but noticeable MK advantage
Falco- Dead even or VEEEEEEEEEEERY tiny MK advantage
Diddy Kong- Dead even
King Dedede- Pretty bad for Dedede
Marth- Slight to decent MK advantage
Mr. Game & Watch- Bad
Pikachu- Decent advantage
Olimar- Small advantage
Ice Climbers- Dead even
R.O.B.- Noticeable MK advantage
Kirby- Really bad
Lucario- Smallish MK advantage
Zero Suit Samus- Not awful but still kinda bad
Toon Link- Same as ZSS
Pit- Same as TL/ZSS
Donkey Kong- AWFUL
Peach- Bad
Luigi- Pretty bad
Fox- Pretty bad
Wolf- Minor advantage
Sonic- Minor advantage
Sheik- Pretty bad
Bowser- Bad
Zelda- REEEEEEEALLY bad
Squirtle- Small advantage, Ivysaur- lol, Charizard- Small advantage (overall regular old "bad")
Ike- Quite awful
Lucas- Bad
Mario- Decently bad
Ness- Small advantage
Yoshi- Small advantage, maybe close to even
Samus- Small advantage, SUPER SUPER SUPER stage dependent
Jigglypuff- Really bad
Captain Falcon- Awful
Link- lol
Ganondorf- 0/100 Ganon's favor
Lol Falco does not have the advantage on MK. Not even the Falco boards/top Falco players are arguing that. People did not riot in the streets about Dojo camping DEHF because Falco had the advantage lol. Just sayin.
The rest of your list seems reasonable. I think MK has a small advantage on Diddy, but that's just nitpicking at probably 5 points of difference.
The rest of your list seems reasonable. I think MK has a small advantage on Diddy, but that's just nitpicking at probably 5 points of difference.
Max Ketchum
Collegiate Starleague Smash Director
Typo, fixed.
I think matchup ratios are also sorta unecessary. People are always trying to justify them off of videos and one time occurences. Stages, an the MK players playstyle can always factor in and a lot of players don't factor that in.
I think Sheik does decently against MK, though its slightly stage dependent. I think MK vs. Falco is SLIGHTLY in MKs favor rather than Falcos, but the only time I experienced this matchup at a high level I didn't know how to play it so I can't be certain. WC falcos should come to FL. MK vs. Dedede is interesting. Sometimes it seems horrible for Dedede but sometimes it feels like (against good Dededes) that getting him into a capitalizing situation is difficult. Otherwise I pretty much agree with everything.
InfiniteBlaze
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Oct 11, 2009
- Messages
- 110
I think MK vs Diddy should be changed to 50:50 instead of 55:45
Toronto Joe
Smash Master
theres no way lucas is that good for mk..
Max Ketchum
Collegiate Starleague Smash Director
What do you mean? <_<
MK doesn't have to approach, first of all. When he does, what is Lucas going to do? Ftilt/dtilt pokes on the shield are ridiculously safe because of Lucas's ****ty grab, and spaced fairs/dairs/nairs are all relatively safe. Once MK gets a grab, he can grab release chaingrab Lucas to the edge, then either grab release dsmash or dthrow him off and edgeguard him to rack damage/take a stock (generally just ends up being the stock).
Lucas's only advantages are killing MK early with fsmash and being good against edge camping because of dsmash.
MK doesn't have to approach, first of all. When he does, what is Lucas going to do? Ftilt/dtilt pokes on the shield are ridiculously safe because of Lucas's ****ty grab, and spaced fairs/dairs/nairs are all relatively safe. Once MK gets a grab, he can grab release chaingrab Lucas to the edge, then either grab release dsmash or dthrow him off and edgeguard him to rack damage/take a stock (generally just ends up being the stock).
Lucas's only advantages are killing MK early with fsmash and being good against edge camping because of dsmash.
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