DK is awful against MK, he can't do anything good against MK on inherent character strengths, he relies on you screwing up or reading you like a book. 80:20 is a bit much though, more like 65:35 or 7:3. 60:40 at the lowest IMO.
It's pretty bad. Try tilting at DK's shield and watching his options disappear. Try getting under him and spamming uair, then tornadoing as you get nearer to the ground. Offstage is easy too. 80:20 is fair, imo.
MK's ftilt is faster, has transcendent priority, has more range, and is safer.
It's faster by one frame and hardly longer. The difference is negligible. Also consider Snake's ability to limit where his opponent can be. How often is MK going to be at full spacing for ftilt?
Don't look at it as "well if MK does ____ Snake can counter with _____" as if MK had to just relentlessly run into Snake's defenses, stay out of his immediate range but don't camp/run away, you're playing rock paper scissors with someone that's forced to show their hand before you. Not saying he gets ***** I just think it's hard to argue that it's even and I find the idea of it being in Snake's favor insane. MK has at least a slight advantage in neutral and he option selects Snake like crazy any time his feet leave the ground.
Obviously prediction is going to play a large role in the actual match, but for actual matchup discussion, viable answers to things that the character can do are completely fair game. He doesn't have to relentlessly run into Snake, but the point still stands that Meta Knight has to move toward Snake to win. It's not even like MK can just get a stock lead and run away, because grenades kill. MK WILL RARELY ACTUALLY BE IN THE PERFECT ZONE HE'D LIKE TO BE IN.
How is Snake forced to act first? Oh right, he isn't. MK's ftilt being one frame faster does not mean Snake must show his hand first (especially because shielding is faster than both ftilts anyway, but within normal human capabilities the difference of one frame is absolutely negligible). Up close it's not bad for Snake at all, and Snake hugely wins the damage tradeoff anyway. It's not like his options are limited to "ftilt or get hit".
I don't see how DDD is that great against MK even on paper aside from the typical "this character outpowers us and lives a long time, EVEN".
I didn't say that he was, but that would be the reason why DDD is better on paper in that particular matchup.
Marth is every bit as bad against MK in reality as he is on paper.
Really? Do you have experience vs. top Marths that backs this up? Tournament results indicate otherwise.
Lucario is capable of having closeish matchups with characters that **** him because he gets rewarded for doing badly. I don't think it's even but it makes it a lot closer than it should be.
55:45 is not even. 60:40 is not even.
Lucario is underrated due to lack of representation, I suppose. He's very capable vs. MK.
Please stop telling me to space better and actually play this game in a tournament environment before you make posts like these. We don't play Super Theory Bros. for money. Mew2King does not perfectly outspace or interrupt Ally's ftilts nine out of ten times. It is not reasonable at all to use your near-frame-perfect methods of debating for matchup discussion. If it were, Olimar would be the best character in the game and the Ice Climbers would be D tier.
Human error and limit are important factors in any video game. You can't come into a matchup thread and bust out your pixel-perfect spacing and frame-perfect timing and expect it to determine a matchup.. There are obvious instances where frame data makes a difference, but frame 3 and XXXXX range vs. frame 4 and XXXX range are not matchup-determining factors.
If MK really did outbox Snake so badly, the matchup wouldn't even be close to even. That's one of Snake's strongest qualities, and removing that would make a matchup almost an auto-loss. I understand that you know your numbers, but higher level ingame experience is what matters most to matchup discussion.
Bowser can avoid the Tornado with Ftilt, but if you use it close to him, I think he'll not have time to get a Ftilt. Bowser can kill MK well with his Side B, especially on Battlefield at the center plattform. So, BF may be a good stage for Bowser. He just needs to avoid being above the plattforms. MK doesn't really need a stage option...
All in all, play at close range, with pressure and trying to take Bowser off-stage.
75:35 for MK IMO
Bowser can beat the tornado up close with up B out of shield.
And ****, 75:35? You know a matchup is tough when it adds up to 110.
Replies to other posts coming soon.
