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lol...did you lose to a Lucas recently or something? That video is not an accurate display of MK vs. Lucas. M2K clearly had no idea what he was doing in the matchup (displayed by his excessive use of tornado) and made loads of mistakes (lol at him jabbing like 3-4 times). Lucas certainly doesn't shut down tornado. How the hell is his recovery gay? It's ridiculously gimpable, and you get a free hit if you edgehog him. MK's uair and utilt outspace Lucas's dair, and uair outspeeds it. You shouldn't be getting hit by dair to dtilt crap (and you can tech it anyway).
I already posted this.
You also get dtilt, ftilt, and dash attack.
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sorry read fail XDI already posted this.
I guess Internet sarcasm is quite difficult to see through. Also, just shielding vs. Lucas rather than spot dodging is a very good idea, considering that his grab is kinda terrible and Lucas is very good against spot dodging. Nair out of shield beats pretty much his whole moveset, and for everything you can't nair, there's up B and dair.
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Did you watch the 3 matches? it doesn't look like 6/4 AT ALL. It's not a close match-up, at least not right now.
It's 10-50%+. It can start at 10. At 0~9% MK can nair or footstool before Pikachu can grab again. It can start as late as 14 I think. It's a small window. Pikachu can finish the chain with a buffered full hop Nair. If it's short-hopped, MK can footstool out before it connects. I've tested it.
Most of the ratios aren't from my personal experience. If I actually went to the U.S., you'd see me in the results. I'm gonna apply a new no sandbagging policy.
Are you serious?
MK wins by a decent margin IMO, I don't consider Snake to be MK's worst (non-MK) MU either, I think at the very least Diddy and IC's are better off.
MK ***** Marth, it's not slight at all.
Doesn't MK have a small step grab release on Ness? Regardless I don't think it's very close, he just has gimmicks you need to be aware of...Lucas has a much better matchup unfamiliarity shock factor in his favor though.
Need more Yoshi exp but I'm pretty sure it's not even, I think MK destroys Samus, maybe stage dependent but I don't think she's good enough against you on any neutral for it to matter.
Only if you dare bring light to his lair.
Pikachu surviving your KO moves like 20% later than you thought he should is gay, but he still loses.
Anther probably knows the matchup way way better than him, pure overall skill isn't the only factor to consider when trying to judge why games unfold the way they do.
Your logic is horrible. Pikachu doens't live that much longer than falco if any longer, and that doesn't determine matchups anyway. DK can live up to 190% every stock and still get 3 stocked.Are you serious?
Pikachu outlives Falco by a HUGE margin. Do you know that Pikachu has some of the best tools for momentum cancel - a super quick uair and side B to get back asap? Pikachu might be light but he can still survive to pretty high %. Certainly higher than Falco (and also MK) does. Pikachu has a really good recovery and is more or less immune to CP gayness because he has no inherently bad stage. That alone is much better than merley a "less gay version of Falco".
I watched Pikachu vs Anther and saw really close matches and an overall set that was close to even despite the fact that M2K is the best player. That confirms what I have said, not you.
No way. Snake, Diddy and the ICs all do equally well against MK, imo. I'd say Snake beats MK onstage. Forces him to approach, deals massive damage upon approaching (solid guaranteed 12 for a grab + high chance of followups, 21 if you get ftilted), outlives MK greatly (obviously excluding gimps. 5 ftilts + grenade = kill percents for MK). The only times Snake really suffers are when he's offstage, when he's on the edge, and when MK has him above him. Getting juggled can be avoided by smart use of B-reversal grenades, conservative air dodging, and fast falling back air (Ally does this consistently through rapid uairs). Utilt rips right through tornado.
My "slight" is about a 55/45 or 60/40, if you went by regular numbers. I think the worst MK can beat Marth is 60/40. NEO, when he plays, beats the top MKs in his region. MikeHAZE always does very well against Mew2King and the other various MKs in his region. Tournament results indicate that this matchup isn't as awful as theorycraft would suggest. Once somebody decides to show that this match really is terrible, I'd be more inclined to believe it.
If there is a grab release, it's a dash grab like on Lucas. Unfamiliarity shock isn't the advantage here. Again, if I had to put a number on this matchup, I'd say 60/40. Ness can stop dair camping, is floaty enough not to get wrecked by tornado (react to it being used as a landing trap and then drop a nair through it), kills MK at very nice percents via grab (and don't say he has no other kill options, uair and bair are awesome), and has the super awesome dash attack and fair.
Yoshi's GAY. Eggs are obnoxious and beat tornado (as well as any other move MK has due to transcendent-ness), so you're forced to powershield them (which can be difficult, their hitbox is quite deceiving). If one does hit your shield, it takes away a pretty solid chunk of it. Once you get closer, Yoshi's gonna start pivot grabbing everything. This removes tornado and dash attack as approaches. Oh yeah, you also can't poke his shield with tornado, which is annoying.
How? He's outranged, has slower attacks both for start up and lag, is less mobile, and has a projectile that doesn't really stop you from approaching. Once he gets hit he just gets put in bad situation after bad situation where he has little to no options.
Only useful if you can stop approaches consistently, he also has pretty sizeable blind zones where he can't safely pull nades nor is he close enough to do anything else MK can't stop on reaction.
Grabs for Snake are usually a result of MK's errors, you outrange his grab pretty solidly, his ftilt1 too for that matter. MK also has much safer attacks, if you bait Snake into whiffing an attack or putting something on your shield, he's screwed.
So basically he only suffers in every situation except neutral, tech chase, and edge traps, lmao.
I think both of them would tell you exactly what I did, they have to work a lot harder at the matchup than an MK does.
First stage most MK's will ban and it's still not like she wins or anything.
He has running away, her projectiles aren't exactly hard to see coming.
From the air, I've found I've had pretty good success just walking around and covering landing options, forcing her to the ledge if she doesn't want to get hit, which isn't much better.
Depends on where you get to her, she's so slow in the air and floaty that you can frequently attack her while it's extremely impractical or outright stupid to use screw attack.
It's also very very risky and very costly if it misses.
He's outranged by ftilt, fsmash, and dsmash. Fsmash is slow to start and can obviously be punished on reaction. You can guess for ftilt and shield -> punish it easily, same goes for dsmash.
What? MK can stop ftilt and grab on reaction? Once MK is moving towards Snake, it comes down to rock paper scissors. MK can approach and: dsmash, ftilt, fair (covered by shield), dash attack, running shield (covered by grab), spot dodge or dash grab (covered by ftilt). Snake's pivot grab is also amazing, and beats dash grab/dash attack.
So you're saying that MK is going to remain safe from Snake's grab unless he messes up? <_<
No...he suffers offstage, on the edge, and while above MK. Neutral, tech chase, edgeguarding, close combat (even), while MK is moving towards him, and when MK is above him are all good situations for Snake.
Having to work harder makes the matchup more difficult on the player mentally, but not actually a worse matchup.
Halberd and PS1 are also good. Battlefield and Smashville don't provide MK with any unfair advantages against Samus either.
What is running away going to do if Samus has the lead (or it's tied)? You have to come in. If you powershield everything she throws at you, she can dash grab or pivot grab you once you're close.
Samus has a very powerful ledge game if she's good at mixing up. Bombs give her versatility in landing because they drop a hitbox below her and increase her mobility. FF fair and dair allow her to land in some situations. Naturally, being above MK is still bad for her.
If Samus is recovering low, she's kinda ****ed. If she's level with the stage or above it, she has no problems getting back.
So why would she use it when it's not guaranteed to hit? Also, what huge damage punisher is MK going to use on her? 19 is the largest output he can give in a single move (barring double hit dsmash and full tornado).
That's That Juice!!!!!!!!!!doom/termina You Should Post More Often. You Have Great Logic.
Dtilt too. Tornado also will give Snake spacing issues if he doesn't ***** grenades 24/7, which makes him predictable as ****
Considering that Snake has to walk up to him from beyond his range to do it, yes.
He can also shuttle loop, tornado, dair, dtilt or nair as practical options depending on what Snake does. And running shield is only covered by grab if you mispace or if Snake calls you on it, if you space out of his immediate grab range he's not going to get to you unless he predicted it and did a dash grab, which is a horrible option against everything else you could have done.
More often than most other characters, he has some of the safest attacks on shield and he can run in and punish so well, a lot of the time he doesn't have to attack Snake when Snake is able to do anything, and he can spend a lot of his time above Snake's grab range anyway.
That's not at all what I meant, to have any chance at success, a Marth player has to know the MK matchup in and out, MK can get away with winning without even playing the matchup optimally(see M2K vs MikeHaze). Marth has to work harder as in he needs to be mored well informed and more practiced in the matchup to even be competitive, it's completely borked in MK's favor.
Well said doom, well said.
He can't always shield it and you can bait utilt, MK is very mobile during tornado. It's also not that easy to punish if he auto cancels it.
MK outranges Snake and has great ability to move in quickly, if he's standing around in Snake's ftilt zone HE'S DOING IT WRONG. ftilt2 is horribly telegraphed and bad on the shield and isn't practical at all.
Why is MK shuttle looping Snake's shield for no reason? I use it just when I notice a late nade pull, does 22% to Snake if both are fresh and 34% if you can string in a glide attack at low %
Again only answers to specific Snake actions
Nair loses to MK aerials and MK can uair him inbetween the kicks anyway, it doesn't work. utilt doesn't have the upward range to get him most of the time, and usmash is so slow that MK can dive in and attack before its out most of the time.
So then he's just resetting it to neutral, where MK is disadvantaged.
How is he doing it wrong when the margin that MK outranges him is so incredibly slight? Why is MK shielding if he's supposedly ftilting Snake to beat his range?
Why is Snake leaving himself blatanly open to get Shuttle Looped? lol...
Not exactly sure what you mean by this.
It doesn't matter if it loses to MK's aerials...if MK hits Snake's shield with a dair (or misses one in the air), he can get naired. It's not like there's enough time for him to do another move to counter it. MK uairing between the kicks is a rarity anyway, but obviously it's possible.
1. I didn't say Snake beat MK
Dtilt's IASA frames mean that he'll be able to shield prior to Snake's ftilt 2 coming out when perfectly space (ftilt 1 moves back snake's foot hitbox so he's not hit).
Ftilt 2 can be reacted to and is punishable, snake should not do it.
No.
Space better.
