Match-Up Chart (Outdated); please refer to the new chart.

[ChivalRuse]

Samus wrecks Luigi. Samus > Luigi
Link = Samus, not Link > Samus
Samus > Zelda, not Zelda > Samus, or at best it's =.
DK = Samus maybe. There's no way DK > Samus ...

 

[SleepyK]

dk>>>>> defensive samus.

 

[ChivalRuse]

I'm skeptical. I want to hear what people who actually play the characters think.

 

[Merkuri]

>> should be rare-ish
it should be reserved for awful matchups like sheik vs cf. i just dont see falco owning cf like sheik, and not even close to it really. The basic idea is sheik grabs falcon hes screwed. if falcon approaches sheik nair and ftilt BEAT EVERYTHING. then you add a projectile advantage, and some very easy gimps and that rounds it all up to 70-30 or so. Falco really only has the projectile advantage hes not even close to tech chase gay (i dont even think good shine combos compare really). falco gimp falcon like everyone else, but not NEARLY as bad as sheik can. nairs, ledged bairs, dsmash spam (sometimes, its hilarious though) needles to mess with low recovering falcons, and well placed fair can end it too.
I just don't see it

I second sheik >> samus. sheik can deter projectile spam incredibly well (lol 1 needle vs full charged shot). there seems to only really be two ways samus can kill sheik as well. the first is edgeguarding, which most characters can do to each other anyways. the second is a fsmash, which sort of lacks diversity. AND sheik can pop samus' bombs if she can connect her needles with a recovering samus, which seriously impairs one of samus' greatest strengths.

Falcon vs Shiek isn't that bad anymore. The tech chasing isn't a big deal because you can roll the C-stick to escape from it. Also Shiek's nair does not beat all of Falcon's moves, it trades hits with Falcon's nair, and a good Falcon won't just constantly jump in at you, he'll dash dance until he sees an opening(and needles don't work here, because it's slow enough for Faclon to react to a punish you with a knee) as a Shiek main myself it's not an easy match up, but it's not hard either. It's enough in Shiek's favor to be Shiek > Falcon but it's no where near >>

The Falcon mains, Lovage and some other pros were saying how bad Falco ***** Falcon because of his broken combos on him, and how badly lasers shut Falcon down. Dash dancing isn't an option if the falco is short hop lasering correctly and should also stop falcon from approaching with short hops hence forcing him to full jump which is readable and hence punishable. I think it's Falco >> Falcon, but I'm not an expert on that match up.

 

[Let It Riot]

Falcon vs Shiek isn't that bad anymore. The tech chasing isn't a big deal because you can roll the C-stick to escape from it. Also Shiek's nair does not beat all of Falcon's moves, it trades hits with Falcon's nair, and a good Falcon won't just constantly jump in at you, he'll dash dance until he sees an opening(and needles don't work here, because it's slow enough for Faclon to react to a punish you with a knee) as a Shiek main myself it's not an easy match up, but it's not hard either. It's enough in Shiek's favor to be Shiek > Falcon but it's no where near >>

The Falcon mains, Lovage and some other pros were saying how bad Falco ***** Falcon because of his broken combos on him, and how badly lasers shut Falco down. Dash dancing isn't an option if the falco is short hop lasering correctly and should also stop falco from approaching with short hops hence forcing him to full jump which is readable and hence punishable. I think it's Falco >> Falcon, but I'm not an expert on that match up.

mixed up falcon with falco a couple times there

 

[NJzFinest]

I'm skeptical. I want to hear what people who actually play the characters think.

Read my earlier posts in this thread.

I might search for them myself later, really tired atm.

It would be amazing to have Mexican post again, cause he has experience vs HugS and DarkMike. It's actually cause of some thread he made about DK vs Samus that DK = my Samus "counter" lol.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Falcon vs Shiek isn't that bad anymore. The tech chasing isn't a big deal because you can roll the C-stick to escape from it. Also Shiek's nair does not beat all of Falcon's moves, it trades hits with Falcon's nair, and a good Falcon won't just constantly jump in at you, he'll dash dance until he sees an opening(and needles don't work here, because it's slow enough for Faclon to react to a punish you with a knee) as a Shiek main myself it's not an easy match up, but it's not hard either. It's enough in Shiek's favor to be Shiek > Falcon but it's no where near >>

My response to the punishment and tech chase thing is below:

kirbykaze:

@hitboxexploiter - idk hax and scar claim you can dodge tech chase with c-stick roll + non-tech

maybe sheik is winnable now

i don't think that would matter too, too much because you can still just tilt him off the ground and combo, or duck and then react to his non-tech stuff if you're below 100%, and if you do land a jab reset below 32 you can combo both hits of u-smash and do like 28% and monster **** combo him from it but w/e. if he dis anywhere but completely away from sheik you can also just combo tilts on him out of the throw, it's pretty easy to get d-throw u-tilts if he doesn't di the throw and then regrab or dash attack, uairs, etc.

i think that if falcon is doing better it's probably got more to do with falcon's punishment getting gayer on sheik and them getting better at punishing baited tilts and stuff opposed to falcons avoiding sheik punishment gayness but i never play vs falcons nor do i have good vs falcon experience.

Needles aren't good against him but their existence still means that if you have a lead he has to touch you to win. I think it's bad for him if you play really gay. Even without tech chasing she still has a great combo game and a great gimping game and brutal edgeguarding.

I'm not very good at the matchup, though, so I'd like someone better than me at it to shed some light on it.

 

[HugS™]

Ill be on this tomorrow with as much insight I could offer. Busy at a casino . When is Samus no longer the focus of discussion?

 

[FoxLisk]

Im now picturing Samus making out with Zelda.

this lol

/10makeouts

 

[KAOSTAR]

Ill be on this tomorrow with as much insight I could offer. Busy at a casino . When is Samus no longer the focus of discussion?

We just switched to samus. So probably 2-3 days give or take.

 

[Ace55]

Samus >>> Yoshi

Isn't this a bit extreme? I'd like to know what it's based on. What does Samus have that totally wrecks Yoshi?

 

[Archangel]

To me Samus is the perfect example of Middle tier. Like the god of mid tier. Good Samus players can cut it pretty close with high and top tier character with the exception of some Puff's and campy Falco/sheiks. However Seems to be bested by Middle low and bottom tiers.....wtf is that ****!

 

[Mind Trick]

I'd say Samus/Yoshi = 60/40 (shiri probably disagrees with me though lol)
egg camping kinda wrecks samus
if you play it any other way she has an answer for everything though, mostly her nair and hard hitting moves with range can be problematic, its definitely not an impossible matchup though imo (same goes for peach, peach >>>yoshi wtf, thats not true)

 

[KAOSTAR]

I'd say Samus/Yoshi = 60/40 (shiri probably disagrees with me though lol)
egg camping kinda wrecks samus
if you play it any other way she has an answer for everything though, mostly her nair and hard hitting moves with range can be problematic, its definitely not an impossible matchup though imo (same goes for peach, peach >>>yoshi wtf, thats not true)

Egg camping wrecking samus?

is this a mind trick?

 

[NJzFinest]

Samus is >>> Yoshi, I've seen the matchup plently of times, it's so horrible. Yoshi just dies, literally. He struggles damaging Samus, he struggles killing Samus, he struggles coming back on stage.

I wish Iggy was here to post about it >_<



.. Really want to see what HugS thinks about Fox, Falco, and Peach :o

 

[ChivalRuse]

Busy at a casino . When is Samus no longer the focus of discussion?

Whenever we run out of Samus match-ups to discuss, I think. We'll try to keep the debate alight until you get back.

 

[PEEF!]

Samus>ICs

I know people like to say that MU is worse than it really is.

 

[Mind Trick]

Samus is >>> Yoshi, I've seen the matchup plently of times, it's so horrible. Yoshi just dies, literally. He struggles damaging Samus, he struggles killing Samus, he struggles coming back on stage.

I wish Iggy was here to post about it >_<

sounds more like the Yoshi was just horrible

 

[NJzFinest]

Nah, Yoshi is just horrible. The only moves with decent range are his smashes, everything else gets CC'd or UpB'd out of shield. Everything period gets ***** by her amazing wavedash back to *insert move*.

 

[ChivalRuse]

The current chart says that Jiggs >> Samus. No way that can be right. It should be Jiggs > Samus or Jiggs = Samus with a slight edge to Jiggs. I think we should talk about this match-up.

 

[PEEF!]

Jiggs destroys samus, IHSB and HugS will defend that << forever.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Biased because of Mango/Hbox in their regions. You can't tell me that match-up is as bad as Peach-ICs. Bull. I want to hear other voices.

 

[TheLifeRuiner]

that bair hitbox is pretty ********

 

[Merkuri]

Jiggs destroys samus, IHSB and HugS will defend that << forever.

IHSB isn't on the same level as Hbox or Mango. And Hugs was going even with Hbox at Pound 4 friendlies, and if I remember correctly Hugs used to beat Mango's puff and Mango doesn't play Puff against him anymore.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Can't well spaced dash attacks and utilts beat Jiggs's bair? Also, assuming the Samus doesn't grab or up-b (meaning rests should be to a minimum), Jiggs dies considerably earlier (in the 110 range), while Samus doesn't die until 140-150%, because of the difficulty in gimping her. If Samus runs away, she forces Jiggs to bair less safely, opening up CC fsmash opportunities and counterpoke play via Samus's ftilt to trade damage. Jiggs shouldn't be able to camp in her shield because of missiles at long/medium-long range, and jab cancels on her shield at close range, as well as charged shot baiting.

I'm by no means knowledgeable in the match-up, but I want there to be discussion and sound proofs rather than empty statements like "bair is ********" before we set this chart in stone.

 

[Mind Trick]

Nah, Yoshi is just horrible. The only moves with decent range are his smashes, everything else gets CC'd or UpB'd out of shield. Everything period gets ***** by her amazing wavedash back to *insert move*.

what does samus have on ece really? yoshi has enough speed to get spaced fairs in and once she's in the air she can't get down basically. her ground game can be a ***** though, I agree on that, but nothing of complete shutdown like you make it sound.

 

[ChivalRuse]

yoshi has enough speed to get spaced fairs in

Fairs are telegraphed and can be easily punished by wavedashing back -> fsmash/dsmash.

and once she's in the air she can't get down basically.

False. Samus has few such problems as her bombs grant her excellent horizontal maneuverability in the air.

 

[ihavespaceblondes]

As best I can tell, Mango doesn't play Jiggs vs HugS in tournament because he and Hugo are friends, and friends don't do that kinda **** to each other. And also because he likes a challenge.

But I don't know for sure. I'm basing this on Mango's (kinda dated) write-up about how bad the matchup is for Samus, and my personal experience playing Jiggs (Hbox and Darc especially). HugS is definitely the metagame in this matchup, though (pretty much true across the board), so I'll wait for his input on the subject.

Especially since if I try to say anything concrete about it, someone will just post the pound4 me vs Hbox and HugS vs Hbox vids and be all like "lol I'll wait for Hugo kthxbi".

 

[otg]

Jesus christ, some of the people who post their opinions in this thread need a muzzle to shut them up.

 

[PEEF!]

Jesus christ, some of the people who post their opinions in this thread need a muzzle to shut them up.

I can think of one person right off the bat -__-

 

[ChivalRuse]

Does no one else find it weird that the chart says Samus AND Roy are both << Jiggs? That's like saying Lisa Leslie and my mom could both successfully guard Kobe.

 

[NJzFinest]

what does samus have on ece really? yoshi has enough speed to get spaced fairs in and once she's in the air she can't get down basically. her ground game can be a ***** though, I agree on that, but nothing of complete shutdown like you make it sound.

Idk, Samus' wavedash back camping is pretty fast and I think she can just wavedash back + smash/tilt almost every single Fair. I also don't think Fair has enough range to avoid Up B oos, if anything, Samus can run and shield to mess up the spacing if the speed of Yoshi is really that fast for her.

I will admit that once Samus is above up, Yoshi can egg and Uair her, but he has to be careful for well placed falling Nairs. I mean, Yoshi's Uair doesn't necessarily have the best hitbox.

Actually, I think HugS should comment on this. Isn'the related to Gabe? He's that oldschool yoshi player.

 

[Mind Trick]

Jesus christ, some of the people who post their opinions in this thread need a muzzle to shut them up.

wtf have you contributed ahahahahaha

I guess people who actually have played the matchup cant post **** here. It's hard to believe a 'bottom tier' char (USA Yoshi's step it up) might have a chance to be decent against the likes of marth, peach, jiggs, samus and icies.

@chival
egg trajectory ****s bombs, like 4 djc upairs are almost guaranteed on lower percents, and upsmash has an even bigger hitbox than otg's momma
fair is just for cc happy samus, after which **** ensues
also I still havent heard back what samus has on ece really (except powershield consistently I guess?)

 

[TheManaLord]

samus = zelda

projectiles mean nothing to zelda, fair and bair outspace samus.

 

[otg]

I can think of one person right off the bat -__-

I've contributed a lot to this chart actually. I'm one of the best Doc's in the US atm and I'm the only one who has contributed/defended any of his matchups. My comment wasn't even directed at you, get off my nuts for troling your "Hungrybox Da Bess" vid, I meant no harm, just had to call you guys out for bein scrubs.

Mind Trick, I haven't ever done **** to you son, step off *****. You played my crewmate Tuna (Yaneev) when he was visiting amsterdam a month or so ago. He spoke quite highly of your Yoshi gayness.

 

[giuocob]

Well stop *****ing at people for everything they do and maybe they won't ***** back at you.

What's the final verdict on Luigi v Ice Climbers? There hasn't been any strong opposition to >. Fly just gave some of the thing ICs can do in the matchup, he didn't oppose > directly.

 

[ChivalRuse]

samus = zelda

projectiles mean nothing to zelda, fair and bair outspace samus.

At least you're not one of the fanatics saying Zelda beats Samus. The ignorance in this thread has really been something else.

 

[otg]

Well stop *****ing at people for everything they do and maybe they won't ***** back at you.

I'll stop once the people who are throwing there baseless scrubby opinions on characters and matchups they don't even play stop contributing to this thread.

 

[h!tboxexplo!ter]

zeldas down-b ***** samus. just sayin

 

[Pi]

I'll stop once the people who are throwing there baseless scrubby opinions on characters and matchups they don't even play stop contributing to this thread.

Lmfao
Oh man
That was good

Marth > Samus
Cfalc > Samus
Gannon >> Samus
Jiggs > Samus
Sheik >> samus
Fox >= Samus
Falco <= Samus