Nintendude
Smash Hero
Yes, because if you don't mix them up the opponent will escape after 1 or 2 reps unless it's the handoff.
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Match-Up Chart (Outdated); please refer to the new chart.
- Thread starter t3h Icy
- Start date
- Status
TheManaLord
Smash Hero
otg i've probly played more famous low tier mains than you have
ppl from like 02 who made the chars who they are ****ing mad old school low tier exp mang
ppl from like 02 who made the chars who they are ****ing mad old school low tier exp mang
otg
Smash Master
This means nothing to me.
KAOSTAR
the Ascended One
I agree with M2>DK.
You pretty much camp outside of bair range and get dtilt into normal followups. Edgeguarding is pretty easy, dsmash or fsmash or offstage bair/reverse uairs. You can ftilt into SB as a pseudo combo or tech chase..
You pretty much camp outside of bair range and get dtilt into normal followups. Edgeguarding is pretty easy, dsmash or fsmash or offstage bair/reverse uairs. You can ftilt into SB as a pseudo combo or tech chase..
giuocob
Smash Journeyman
Luigi vs DK is sort of rough, but does it really warrant a <<?
EDIT: Just read your explanatory post:
No self-respecting Luigi player is going to just wavedash in like a ******* when you're getting ready to Down B. If you try to start it on his approach, it's easily shielded on reaction, as it's got a pretty obvious and long telegraph. More likely, they'll just jump over it and dair you.
Obviously giant punch is ****, but how is it moreso than for other characters? And what edgeguards does he have? I don't think Up B shenanigans should work, Luigi can drop well below that and stall with tornado if he gets into too much trouble.
I tend to think this matchup is probably even. You'd be hard pressed to find a good argument to give DK the slight advantage..but >>? Not a chance.
EDIT: Just read your explanatory post:
No way in hell this matchup is a << for DK if that's all he can do. First off, how exactly is it hard for Luigi to get through Bair? He can even just challenge and beat it in the air with chop if it gets annoying and predictable.
No self-respecting Luigi player is going to just wavedash in like a ******* when you're getting ready to Down B. If you try to start it on his approach, it's easily shielded on reaction, as it's got a pretty obvious and long telegraph. More likely, they'll just jump over it and dair you.
Obviously giant punch is ****, but how is it moreso than for other characters? And what edgeguards does he have? I don't think Up B shenanigans should work, Luigi can drop well below that and stall with tornado if he gets into too much trouble.
I tend to think this matchup is probably even. You'd be hard pressed to find a good argument to give DK the slight advantage..but >>? Not a chance.
Considering Luigi's slow butt aerial mobility, I don't see how SH chop is that reliable at beating DK's Bair spam. I would think wavedash ftilt would be way more effective since it's just plain faster, then again, isn't that viable still.
Reason why giant punch is better vs luigi then other characters is because of his horizontal grounded approach and it pushes his shield wayyy back.
Unfortunately, Up B shenanigans do work. ***** his Up B. If Luigi stalls with down B... DK regrabs the edge and gets invincibility again anyways...
A nice thing for DK is that he can still combo/kill Luigi with Uair from grabs.
edit:
Where are we at right now?
ICs<<Peach
ICs< or << Fox
ICs<Marth?
ICs=Falco?
ICs<Falcon?
ICs> or = Sheik? (haven't read anything about this in awhile, I would like to see more about this, especially from a Sheik player)
ICs<<Ganon
ICs=Puff
ICs = or <Doc/Mario?
ICs>DK
ICs = or < Luigi?
ICs= or > Zelda?
ICs=Link
ICs=Samus?
ICs>YLink
Rest are like at least > and >>
Reason why giant punch is better vs luigi then other characters is because of his horizontal grounded approach and it pushes his shield wayyy back.
Unfortunately, Up B shenanigans do work. ***** his Up B. If Luigi stalls with down B... DK regrabs the edge and gets invincibility again anyways...
A nice thing for DK is that he can still combo/kill Luigi with Uair from grabs.
edit:
Where are we at right now?
ICs<<Peach
ICs< or << Fox
ICs<Marth?
ICs=Falco?
ICs<Falcon?
ICs> or = Sheik? (haven't read anything about this in awhile, I would like to see more about this, especially from a Sheik player)
ICs<<Ganon
ICs=Puff
ICs = or <Doc/Mario?
ICs>DK
ICs = or < Luigi?
ICs= or > Zelda?
ICs=Link
ICs=Samus?
ICs>YLink
Rest are like at least > and >>
Nintendude
Smash Hero
ICs are not <<< Peach. It's easily ICs << Peach. Also I thought we settled on ICs > DK, not the other way around.
KAOSTAR
the Ascended One
IC(both) M2 is closer to = than >
Kyu Puff
Smash Champion
ICs < Fox
ICs > Sheik
ICs = Falco
ICs < or = Puff
ICs < Marth
ICs = Falcon
ICs < Samus
ICs << Ganon
ICs = Doc
ICs > Mario
ICs > DK
ICs = Luigi
ICs = Link
ICs > Young Link
ICs > Mewtwo
ICs > Sheik
ICs = Falco
ICs < or = Puff
ICs < Marth
ICs = Falcon
ICs < Samus
ICs << Ganon
ICs = Doc
ICs > Mario
ICs > DK
ICs = Luigi
ICs = Link
ICs > Young Link
ICs > Mewtwo
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
I agree with Kyu's list, except, as I stated before, I'm adamant about ICs < Luigi and ICs = Young Link as opposed to ICs > Young Link. Sure, you can kill him with greater ease than Link, but first you have to catch the little bugger. X_X
I don't mind if the chart stays as ICs = YL for now, though, since my experience against Laijin's YL is a bit limited. But I seriously think Luigi is as hard as if not harder than Samus for ICs.
I don't mind if the chart stays as ICs = YL for now, though, since my experience against Laijin's YL is a bit limited. But I seriously think Luigi is as hard as if not harder than Samus for ICs.
Sheik stuff
Yep, this is quite good. I bolded my suggestion that ICs = Puff. Other than that, I think this is good!
OH and I think maybe Luigi>IC's, but Fly does have experience with that, hopefully heel speak up. Lets just discuss Luigi IC's for the moment then we can be done.
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
We should definitely do that. Also, to prevent redundancy, anyone who gets involved in the discussion should read my post on the match-up first, since I'm the only one who has really contributed to it so far.
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=10275632&postcount=4367
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=10275632&postcount=4367
KAOSTAR
the Ascended One
Thats a good Idea actually.
Merkuri
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Apr 1, 2010
- Messages
- 1,860
Great idea, I can't believe no one has suggested this before.
Fly_Amanita
Master of Caribou
I think the ICs vs. Luigi match-up boils down to knowing how to stop Luigi's approaches and get him above ICs. Dash attack is often good for intercepting ftilt and dsmash approaches. Blizzard stops all of his ground approaches and frequently beats short hop aerials, also. Retreating fair is occasionally good for combating his aerials since it has good range and can also do silly things like hit Luigi's hand when he tries to fair you. Bair in general is good against him since it comes out quickly, has little lag, and has range comparable to Luigi's.
Aside from dash attack, dthrow -> usmash and even uthrow are decent options for getting Luigi above ICs. Being above ICs is bad for Luigi since he's really floaty and has a hard time getting around ICs uair and, to a lesser extent, utilt.
Also, I disagree with the notion that ICs have to approach Luigi eventually. ICs are much better at camping Luigi than vice versa.
Dthrow -> dair may not work, but ICs still can accomplish a lot against Luigi if they grab him; like I mentioned earlier, ICs can use grabs to put Luigi above them.
Aside from dash attack, dthrow -> usmash and even uthrow are decent options for getting Luigi above ICs. Being above ICs is bad for Luigi since he's really floaty and has a hard time getting around ICs uair and, to a lesser extent, utilt.
You really shouldn't be shielding a lot against Luigi. Granted, there are times when you don't have any better options, but you should be frequently protecting yourself via other means, like blizzard. I do think that ICs can often escape Luigi's shield pressure by doing simple things like rolling and wavedashing OoS; ICs just need to have a large light-shield so they slide farther than usual, which makes it harder for Luigi to maintain a lot of pressure with aerials due to his limited horizontal mobility in the air. Shield DI can also help.
Also, I disagree with the notion that ICs have to approach Luigi eventually. ICs are much better at camping Luigi than vice versa.
Dthrow -> dair may not work, but ICs still can accomplish a lot against Luigi if they grab him; like I mentioned earlier, ICs can use grabs to put Luigi above them.
t3h Icy
Smash Master
- Joined
- Jun 12, 2009
- Messages
- 4,917
Have fun.
For those whining about Wobbling, since ICs can often get 0-death chaingrabs, it doesn't really make a difference as a result, only that Wobbling is easier (I'd imagine).
Also, while we are on ICs, thanks Mex for the DK stuff. I saved the links to your posts for when we get to DK.
ICs = Puff
ICs > G&W
ICs > Mario
ICs > Mewtwo
Ganon >> ICs
Link = ICs
ICs > DK
And let's wrap up these two:
ICs > Sheik?
Zelda = ICs?
MEXICAN
Smash Lord
Sorry dude, but the chop doesn't help against dk's b air spam. You have to wavedash in just to get in range. On your way in, i'm going to be throwing a b air in your face and i'll just run away and throw another one and just keep you at the distance that you have to wd in and dk's foot will be there every time you do. And dk CAN edgeguard most characters very well, better than most imo. Luigi is no exception to that. Between b air, d tilt, giant punch and up b of course, its tough for luigi to get back on board. Yeah...down b isn't a factor, but it covers a long range, and even if you do approach in your shield, i'd just tear apart your shield by continuing the down b...it has a lot of shield stun so its kinda tough to jump out of. Biggest reason that luigi does poorly in this matchup is that he can't get passed dk's b air spam. Do you have any good dk experience? Because if you think that dk's b air spam doesn't pose a problem for luigi, the dk probably isn't very good. lol.
*edit* another thing i forgot to mention, dk CAN do u throw u air on luigi guaranteed and u throw f air not 100% guaranteed, but it works very often. And dk can do a wall of pain against luigi. B air combos into more b airs against luigi. And Luigi is tall enough to get hit with dk's up b out of shield which has more knockback than most people think, as it is one of dk's best ko moves
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
Oh, thanks for the input, Fly. There's no doubt that desynched blizzards and ice blocks are great for keeping Luigi out and camping - an indispensable tool, to be sure. Luigi doesn't really have sounds ways to muscle through those projectiles.
My earlier post on the Luigi-ICs match-up focused mostly on the advantages that Luigi has. I just want people to understand that I wasn't trying to skew anyone's perception of the match-up by only talking about the negatives for ICs. Rather, I was trying to mitigate the amount of unnecessary information brought to the table by filtering out aspects of the match-up that more or less cancel each other out.
For example, to address Fly's points on keeping Luigi in the air and shutting down his wavedash game with desynchs: Clearly ICs have a great uair that is well-suited for juggling and outprioritizing Luigi from below. Naturally launching Luigi with dash attack, uthrow, and dthrow upsmash sets up these kind of situations nicely. However, the power of this advantage is utterly made null by the fact that Luigi can employ the same tactics to at least equal, if not greater, effect. His chop is like designed to beat anything ICs have when they're above him, seeking to regain their feet. Luigi's uair also has amazing priority, similar to ICs' uair. It will beat ICs' dair, nair, fair, or any other aerial, fast-fallen or not. Luigi can set up this scenario with launchers, just as ICs can set it up on him. Luigi's dsmash, nair, and throws all prep beautifully for air chasing. So how is ICs' uair chase game any more useful than Luigi's? Not in many ways. Effectively, both sides benefit and suffer equally.
As far as desynched ice blocks and blizzards are concerned, they don't pose much of a threat to a wary Luigi. Sure, blizzards lead handily into grabs, upsmashes, and dash attacks ... if they hit. But Luigi's not going to be haphazardly wavedashing into your blizzards. Rather, he's not going to even give you time to setup a desynch. Even belay oos -> blizzard (to those knowledgeable in ICs' desynch tricks), doesn't grant enough time to ICs to initiate a desynch before Luigi comes plowing through with a dsmash, which unavoidably (now that Nana is airborne and Popo in the frozen up-b animation) hits one or both of the climbers. Ice blocks do great damage. However, Luigi should be able to SH around them fairly easily without putting himself in harm's way, since he has his aerials to defend himself from wavedash fsmashes and derivatives (which are significantly less useful during desynchs, since only one climber is able to charge in at a time, and the human shield effect is non-existent).
Luigi merely has to bide his time until you mess up a desynch, you grow impatient, or he finds some kind of opening. He lands a dsmash, and from there he proceeds to separate and KO Nana and/or Popo with relative ease.
If the ICs player is significantly better than the Luigi, then sure, get your reads and hard counter all of Luigi's skirmishes. However, on an equal plane, the simple fact is that Luigi doesn't need to predict so much as react to where ICs are and use safe moves fast enough to exert pressure, comboing once he lands a hit. ICs perish if they don't out-think the Luigi on another level.
My earlier post on the Luigi-ICs match-up focused mostly on the advantages that Luigi has. I just want people to understand that I wasn't trying to skew anyone's perception of the match-up by only talking about the negatives for ICs. Rather, I was trying to mitigate the amount of unnecessary information brought to the table by filtering out aspects of the match-up that more or less cancel each other out.
For example, to address Fly's points on keeping Luigi in the air and shutting down his wavedash game with desynchs: Clearly ICs have a great uair that is well-suited for juggling and outprioritizing Luigi from below. Naturally launching Luigi with dash attack, uthrow, and dthrow upsmash sets up these kind of situations nicely. However, the power of this advantage is utterly made null by the fact that Luigi can employ the same tactics to at least equal, if not greater, effect. His chop is like designed to beat anything ICs have when they're above him, seeking to regain their feet. Luigi's uair also has amazing priority, similar to ICs' uair. It will beat ICs' dair, nair, fair, or any other aerial, fast-fallen or not. Luigi can set up this scenario with launchers, just as ICs can set it up on him. Luigi's dsmash, nair, and throws all prep beautifully for air chasing. So how is ICs' uair chase game any more useful than Luigi's? Not in many ways. Effectively, both sides benefit and suffer equally.
As far as desynched ice blocks and blizzards are concerned, they don't pose much of a threat to a wary Luigi. Sure, blizzards lead handily into grabs, upsmashes, and dash attacks ... if they hit. But Luigi's not going to be haphazardly wavedashing into your blizzards. Rather, he's not going to even give you time to setup a desynch. Even belay oos -> blizzard (to those knowledgeable in ICs' desynch tricks), doesn't grant enough time to ICs to initiate a desynch before Luigi comes plowing through with a dsmash, which unavoidably (now that Nana is airborne and Popo in the frozen up-b animation) hits one or both of the climbers. Ice blocks do great damage. However, Luigi should be able to SH around them fairly easily without putting himself in harm's way, since he has his aerials to defend himself from wavedash fsmashes and derivatives (which are significantly less useful during desynchs, since only one climber is able to charge in at a time, and the human shield effect is non-existent).
Luigi merely has to bide his time until you mess up a desynch, you grow impatient, or he finds some kind of opening. He lands a dsmash, and from there he proceeds to separate and KO Nana and/or Popo with relative ease.
If the ICs player is significantly better than the Luigi, then sure, get your reads and hard counter all of Luigi's skirmishes. However, on an equal plane, the simple fact is that Luigi doesn't need to predict so much as react to where ICs are and use safe moves fast enough to exert pressure, comboing once he lands a hit. ICs perish if they don't out-think the Luigi on another level.
Nintendude
Smash Hero
Err...this is completely wrong. Again with the ICs ignorance here...
I still think ICs > Zelda. Reasoning a few pages back.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
ICs can't guaranteed 0-death Peach, Puff, Marth, Luigi, and Samus without wobbling unless they hit a super duper situational ledge chain grab. This is probably applicable to other characters, too.
t3h Icy
Smash Master
- Joined
- Jun 12, 2009
- Messages
- 4,917
Never claimed I knew about ICs. =P
giuocob
Smash Journeyman
Oh sure, I believe that Bair spam can be a problem, but you're talking as if it completely shuts Luigi's approach down. SH fair is by no means Luigi's only approach: He's got WD Ftilt (which has comparable range to Bair), and of course WD Dsmash, which obviously won't hit if DK's in the air, but if you randomly throw one out while Luigi's in neutral, you're going to eat one of those. On top of that, you've got to deal with Luigi's whole wavedance baiting. You're obviously going to get some of your bairs off, but you can't just say 'lol kicks' in response to all of my approach options; if you could, Zelda would be God Tier.
As far as edgeguarding; I also believe Luigi is better than the majority of the cast at it. DK's recovery is normally very predictable, and it's just a question of Luigi having moves that will go through UpB. Fair and Bair will both do it, and Dair will do the job even better if you come in too low.
And then you go on to list all the combo things DK can do to Luigi, while forgetting to mention that DK is a giant punching bag for comboes, with Luigi being no exception. All of his normal stuff works even better on DK, including Uthrow -> Fair, Dthrow -> Dsmash at low percents, and Dsmash -> whatever the hell he wants, simply because he's so freaking big. DK's not so great above people either, so Luigi can keep up a nice juggle with Uairs and Nairs. I know DK can do the same to Luigi; this is one of those matchups where both characters can combo the crap off each other from a grab.
tl;dr: All the stuff you say DK can do is mostly true, but it in no way warrants the >> you're putting on the matchup. MAYBE a >.
As far as edgeguarding; I also believe Luigi is better than the majority of the cast at it. DK's recovery is normally very predictable, and it's just a question of Luigi having moves that will go through UpB. Fair and Bair will both do it, and Dair will do the job even better if you come in too low.
And then you go on to list all the combo things DK can do to Luigi, while forgetting to mention that DK is a giant punching bag for comboes, with Luigi being no exception. All of his normal stuff works even better on DK, including Uthrow -> Fair, Dthrow -> Dsmash at low percents, and Dsmash -> whatever the hell he wants, simply because he's so freaking big. DK's not so great above people either, so Luigi can keep up a nice juggle with Uairs and Nairs. I know DK can do the same to Luigi; this is one of those matchups where both characters can combo the crap off each other from a grab.
tl;dr: All the stuff you say DK can do is mostly true, but it in no way warrants the >> you're putting on the matchup. MAYBE a >.
Roneblaster
Smash Hero
i just want to say that the best thing to happen to this thread is Chival Ruse's sig.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4jxHupZJHc&playnext_from=TL&videos=sY7BSC-H9d0&feature=sub
i thought it was fitting to link this considering the conversation and juggleguy JUST uploaded it.
and theres a great example of what fly was talking about, Ken took a 72% combo from being above sopo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4jxHupZJHc&playnext_from=TL&videos=sY7BSC-H9d0&feature=sub
i thought it was fitting to link this considering the conversation and juggleguy JUST uploaded it.
and theres a great example of what fly was talking about, Ken took a 72% combo from being above sopo
giuocob
Smash Journeyman
Total agreement here.
MEXICAN
Smash Lord
I'm pretty sure that d throw to d smash is not at all guaranteed against dk. I don't even think u throw to f air is. And you still never answered my question about playing a good dk. It sounds to me like you never have. And luigi's combos are just about all only 2 hits long, and with as heavy as dk is, you're going to have to do a lot of damage before you can put him away for good, while luigi isn't anywhere near as heavy and dk has a ton of ko moves. And getting juggled by luigi's u airs? c'mon now. Thats stretching it quite a bit, don't you think? And your whole zelda would be god tier statement was pretty stupid...that makes no sense. I think you just need to play a good dk player to understand. I've played plenty of luigis, but i doubt you've played plenty of dks.
Winston
Smash Master
>> sounds extreme to me, but like you said, I haven't played many DKs, so I don't know.
I do agree that Luigi's combos on DK are 2-3 hits long for the most part. Luigi's combo game on the big, nonfastfaller characters isn't that good.
He can probably **** them if they don't DI/jump properly, but since Luigi doesn't really have DI mixups that's not really an issue.
I do agree that Luigi's combos on DK are 2-3 hits long for the most part. Luigi's combo game on the big, nonfastfaller characters isn't that good.
He can probably **** them if they don't DI/jump properly, but since Luigi doesn't really have DI mixups that's not really an issue.
KAOSTAR
the Ascended One
Sopopo ****ed that weegy up lol.
So is juggleguy suppose to upload all of sweetignorances ****?
Zelda iceclimbers even? lol maybe if you use down B
But ice climbers > zelda
Ice's can never actually full out **** zelda cause shes sooo good at kicking the living **** out of nana.
If any character knows about seperation issues its zelda and she certainly knows how to deliver.
Ice's cant camp you with those silly little blocks (unless your on a ridic stage like corneria or somthing) but zelda cant exactly camp kicks either cause ic's mobility allows them to sneak under her attacks pretty well just from shielding or bating with wave dashes.
Zeldas down smash is good at keep them at bay if your empty short hopping and not being a predictable heel flicking *****. Falling nayrus love, dins fire, falling nair are "nice" ways to seperate nana but the truth is the effectivness can only go so far. Zeldas problem is sure she can "seperate" but you need to be able to follow up on the seperation in order to make it worth doing.
Like you know how you "shouldnt" grab an ice cause the theory states you can only grab one so the other can just pulverize you? Zeldas kinda like that...all the time. She can target nana but then popo gets all jacked and slugs ya a hammer slammer. Falcon can like pick up nana (with a knee of course) and keep this up without popo being a problem at all.
Its a mobility issue at this point. Zelda just cant "keep" up in the matchup but thankfully since she CAN infact **** one of those little buggers almost guaranteed thats why she doesnt warrant a >> or >>> cause zelda can contend in the matchup and its almost more difficult for the icy player to rip into her spacing domain anyways.
But ice climbers > zelda
Ice's can never actually full out **** zelda cause shes sooo good at kicking the living **** out of nana.
If any character knows about seperation issues its zelda and she certainly knows how to deliver.
Ice's cant camp you with those silly little blocks (unless your on a ridic stage like corneria or somthing) but zelda cant exactly camp kicks either cause ic's mobility allows them to sneak under her attacks pretty well just from shielding or bating with wave dashes.
Zeldas down smash is good at keep them at bay if your empty short hopping and not being a predictable heel flicking *****. Falling nayrus love, dins fire, falling nair are "nice" ways to seperate nana but the truth is the effectivness can only go so far. Zeldas problem is sure she can "seperate" but you need to be able to follow up on the seperation in order to make it worth doing.
Like you know how you "shouldnt" grab an ice cause the theory states you can only grab one so the other can just pulverize you? Zeldas kinda like that...all the time. She can target nana but then popo gets all jacked and slugs ya a hammer slammer. Falcon can like pick up nana (with a knee of course) and keep this up without popo being a problem at all.
Its a mobility issue at this point. Zelda just cant "keep" up in the matchup but thankfully since she CAN infact **** one of those little buggers almost guaranteed thats why she doesnt warrant a >> or >>> cause zelda can contend in the matchup and its almost more difficult for the icy player to rip into her spacing domain anyways.
giuocob
Smash Journeyman
Someone on my floor plays DK quite a bit, and I've played him a lot. I've also played NJzFinest in friendlies. No pros, but I doubt you've played pro Luigi's either. Actually, I don't think you've played any DECENT Luigis, if they're in the habit of wavedashing into Down B like you said earlier.
You're telling me 'lol kicks' is stupid? That's been your entire argument so far. You're telling me that NO MATTER WHAT Luigi tries to do to approach, he will ALMOST ALWAYS get nailed by a Bair. I hope you realize that this is sort of ridiculous.
Look, your arguments are good (most of them at least, eg Dthrow -> Dsmash is guaranteed on pretty much everyone at low percents, and with DK taking up 3/4 of the screen, it should work on him too), but I don't think you understand that >> is a very severe rating. It corresponds to 70-30 in the numbers system. Some examples of >> matchups are Marth v Dr Mario, Shiek v Samus, etc. These are matchups where one character has few or no viable options to combat strategies of the other, and basically has to wait for the opponent to mess up to start nitpicking away at their health. Luigi has more than a few fair options to deal with DK if you forget his magical impenetrable wall of Bairs that even Jiggs should be jealous of. Anything leading into Dair will get DK off the stage at anything above 70, leading to a relatively easy edgeguard. I think we need some input from other DK/Luigi mains to determine whether this matchup belongs at = or >.
I don't think DK has the Comboing necessary to really beat Luigi. Sure you can just hope to land a Giant Punch or some luck based tactic like that, but you would still need the extra damage to win. The only thing I have against luigi is that his recovery kinda suck if you have to go up more than over. Which is sorta the opposite of DK's right? Anyway, I think that although there are some counter strategies for DK, Luigi will still get the bairs, fairs and dairs to combo DK to death.
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
Awww. Thanks, man.
Here's what the match-up typically looks like when it's not Chu, also from SCC, uploaded on Juggleguy's account:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3kY0xnausc
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N97i-nvFdYo
Why Ice Climbers are Sheik's worst matchup (true)
___________________
___________________
ICs = Puff
ICs > G&W
ICs > Mario
ICs > Mewtwo
Ganon >> ICs
Link = ICs
ICs > DK
ICs > Sheik
Zelda < ICs
This is where we are at, I think we're done after Luigi.
Why Ice Climbers are Sheik's worst matchup (true)
___________________
___________________
ICs = Puff
ICs > G&W
ICs > Mario
ICs > Mewtwo
Ganon >> ICs
Link = ICs
ICs > DK
ICs > Sheik
Zelda < ICs
This is where we are at, I think we're done after Luigi.
t3h Icy
Smash Master
- Joined
- Jun 12, 2009
- Messages
- 4,917
Updated:
DK = Luigi
Ganon >> ICs
ICs > DK
ICs > G&W
ICs = Link
ICs > Mario
ICs > Mewtwo
ICs = Puff
ICs > Sheik
Note that while DK/Luigi discussion is still ongoing, it's being suggested that DK = Luigi, DK = > Luigi or DK >> Luigi. Since previously, it was Luigi > DK, I figured to bump it up to even for the time being so that chart is more accurate, if only temporarily.
Currently discussing Samus. Match-ups in brackets are leftover from previous discussion.
Samus >>> Roy
Samus >>> Pichu
Samus >>> Yoshi
Samus >> Bowser
Samus >> Kirby
Samus >> Mewtwo
Samus >> Ness
Samus > DK
Samus > Ice Climbers
Samus > Luigi
Samus > Mr.G&W
Samus > Young Link
Samus > Zelda (Samus = Zelda)
Samus = Doc
Samus = Falco
Samus = Fox
Samus = Link
Samus = Mario (Samus < Mario)
Samus = Peach
Samus = Pikachu
Samus < Falcon
Samus < Ganondorf
Samus < Marth
Samus << Jigglypuff
Samus << Sheik
DK = Luigi
Ganon >> ICs
ICs > DK
ICs > G&W
ICs = Link
ICs > Mario
ICs > Mewtwo
ICs = Puff
ICs > Sheik
Note that while DK/Luigi discussion is still ongoing, it's being suggested that DK = Luigi, DK = > Luigi or DK >> Luigi. Since previously, it was Luigi > DK, I figured to bump it up to even for the time being so that chart is more accurate, if only temporarily.
Currently discussing Samus. Match-ups in brackets are leftover from previous discussion.
Samus >>> Roy
Samus >>> Pichu
Samus >>> Yoshi
Samus >> Bowser
Samus >> Kirby
Samus >> Mewtwo
Samus >> Ness
Samus > DK
Samus > Ice Climbers
Samus > Luigi
Samus > Mr.G&W
Samus > Young Link
Samus > Zelda (Samus = Zelda)
Samus = Doc
Samus = Falco
Samus = Fox
Samus = Link
Samus = Mario (Samus < Mario)
Samus = Peach
Samus = Pikachu
Samus < Falcon
Samus < Ganondorf
Samus < Marth
Samus << Jigglypuff
Samus << Sheik
- Status