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Marth Metagame Thread
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Remzi
formerly VaBengal
That sucks... I'm getting better at the Snake matchup but I was really hoping to see you vs takeover because it's still among my toughest matchups.
My personal worst matchups are probably 1) D3 and 2) snake... so gay.
My personal worst matchups are probably 1) D3 and 2) snake... so gay.
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
It's Junebug.
Marth doesn't have "awesome punishment options of death" against Lucario, even though we win the match up through sheer awesomeness.
But there are similarities to Wario in the sense that we win the match up; but oh noes AURA or OH NOES WAFT will get in our way.
But there are similarities to Wario in the sense that we win the match up; but oh noes AURA or OH NOES WAFT will get in our way.
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
Lucario's roll and fsmash is gay in the MU lol.
Rubberbandman
Smash Champion
Predict rolls. They can get pretty predictable.
Lord Chair
Smash Master
It's really... awkward.
You can only really punish his roll if you exactly know when it's going to happen, it's fairly difficult to punish on reaction. As such, if you predict a roll and it's not coming, you'll find yourself whiffing an attack (and eating a fsmash).
All in all, Lucario can technically play this MU by using only rolls, fsmash and aura sphere.
Don't take that seriously.
You can only really punish his roll if you exactly know when it's going to happen, it's fairly difficult to punish on reaction. As such, if you predict a roll and it's not coming, you'll find yourself whiffing an attack (and eating a fsmash).
All in all, Lucario can technically play this MU by using only rolls, fsmash and aura sphere.
Don't take that seriously.
Blacknight99923
Smash Champion
not taking it to seroiuslly but if a lucario is spamming foward rolls why stay toward the edge if we have the lead and start making a SMART wall of fairs? obviouslly its not a practical solution 100 of the time but how does the basic concept or strategy appear to you guys
Lord Chair
Smash Master
Aura Sphere catches your landing if you start swingin' at the open air.
Blacknight99923
Smash Champion
counter? I meant fairing more of a semi reaction punish not keeping it out there, however its my fault for not conveying that
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
I hope people really didn't think that roll beat all of marth's options reliably, it's just that when used properly, Lucario's rolls are almost "crossup" material, and hard to predict when used correctly.
ftilt can also be used interchangeably with fsmash for anti-air against Marth.
bair is also a decent tool if you think marth's going to push inward.
Counter sounds nice, but sounds pretty meh/risky, counter is very baitable as long as it doesn't involve a move that takes a lot of commitment (AS happens to have a jack-knife's worth of stuff you can do out of the charge animation when you get it down). That and AS can be easily spaced (fsmash is also capable of avoiding counter, but it's on the veeeeeery tip of it lol) to avoid getting knicked, so it's still at a neutral position (sort of).
Marth nair is a good mixup in the MU.
wait for the upB animation, and tipper bair.
Avoid Frigate.
Lucario can nearly harass Marth's recovery almost as bad as the other way around, it's not as good, but it'll still rack some good damage.
It's obviously in Marth's favor, but it's definitely by far manageable on the other end.
ftilt can also be used interchangeably with fsmash for anti-air against Marth.
bair is also a decent tool if you think marth's going to push inward.
Counter sounds nice, but sounds pretty meh/risky, counter is very baitable as long as it doesn't involve a move that takes a lot of commitment (AS happens to have a jack-knife's worth of stuff you can do out of the charge animation when you get it down). That and AS can be easily spaced (fsmash is also capable of avoiding counter, but it's on the veeeeeery tip of it lol) to avoid getting knicked, so it's still at a neutral position (sort of).
Marth nair is a good mixup in the MU.
wait for the upB animation, and tipper bair.
Avoid Frigate.
Lucario can nearly harass Marth's recovery almost as bad as the other way around, it's not as good, but it'll still rack some good damage.
It's obviously in Marth's favor, but it's definitely by far manageable on the other end.
Megavitamins
Smash Champion
mikeHAZE
Smash Legend
yesterday was a very interesting day. It was very bright outside, so i decided to take a walk.
i didn't get too far before i meta game.
i didn't get too far before i meta game.
Blacknight99923
Smash Champion
I am going to repeat this to you irl next time I see you mike to make you realize how dumb that joke is
Bad show kids, I don't like silly spam in this thread. 
-Ran
Smash Master
Easiest way to make the Lucario match up is learning to SDI their Dair, which then leads to a free tippered bair. I do it all the time. Way too much Lucario practice. >>
xxmoosexx
Smash Lord
best joke evar
i don't get it
Remzi
formerly VaBengal
me either p3 :o
before i meta game = before i met a game. what is game another word for
Bad show kids, I don't like silly spam in this thread.
*angry face*
Lord Chair
Smash Master
Ramin knows it extremely well.
Mr. R, I summon thee.
Mr. R, I summon thee.
Blacknight99923
Smash Champion
inb4mintybanishesthee
Don't leave lag infront of olimar to get grabed then *****.
and don't get hit by up smash either
or just do the Isai....................
Don't leave lag infront of olimar to get grabed then *****.
and don't get hit by up smash either
or just do the Isai....................
Reizilla
The Old Lapras and the Sea
- Joined
- Mar 20, 2008
- Messages
- 13,676
You're all wrong. Do the ZMT.
Game = Chick?
Also, what happens when Marth doesn't wanna move back to the stage? There are times where he just won't get any closer to the stage. If anybody could figure it out, does it also help momentum cancel? Like Yoshi's egg.
Game = Chick?
Also, what happens when Marth doesn't wanna move back to the stage? There are times where he just won't get any closer to the stage. If anybody could figure it out, does it also help momentum cancel? Like Yoshi's egg.
If you get hit during the animation of your up b, you'll lose all your momentum and won't gain it back... easily
Blacknight99923
Smash Champion
is it similar to footstool in that if you don't have DJ your in hit stun for a while?
Also I am working on an application of using DB in the air to set up footstools, as of right now its fairly easy however I don't know if it has realistic applications
Also I am working on an application of using DB in the air to set up footstools, as of right now its fairly easy however I don't know if it has realistic applications
Neon X
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Oct 12, 2009
- Messages
- 164
Db to footstool is old. It was once tried to stall MK and Footstool spike him but it isnt reliable. Same with other characters.
Reizilla
The Old Lapras and the Sea
- Joined
- Mar 20, 2008
- Messages
- 13,676
That's it? I could've sworn it happened at other times. Like, any time during your up b animation?
Eh, probably should have been Q&A
Pretty much any time during your "up" of the up b, yeah.
clowsui
Smash Legend
vs. olimar
the key to this matchup is "pressure". make sure you're always on top of olimar with fairs dtilts and nairs. scare him from shielding by grabbing a lot and also abusing your f-throw and uthrow
once you have him on the ledge keep him there...he should eat about 40 before he leaves. off the edge treat the whistle like an airdodge and just bait it/swing intelligently
don't underestimate the power of pikmin toss to annoy you + do damage. make sure you keep in mind what pikmin colors are in the line so you have an idea of what he's going to do
DB is also supremely useful in this matchup as olimar's shield is "meh" and it is a really good close range option vs. the slavemaster
be sure you keep in mind the style of the olimar. sometimes you just need to play a little more patiently but if you don't do it at the right times against your olimar opponent you will eat a lot of damage. find what he likes to do and make sure that you find good times to retreat
the key to this matchup is "pressure". make sure you're always on top of olimar with fairs dtilts and nairs. scare him from shielding by grabbing a lot and also abusing your f-throw and uthrow
once you have him on the ledge keep him there...he should eat about 40 before he leaves. off the edge treat the whistle like an airdodge and just bait it/swing intelligently
don't underestimate the power of pikmin toss to annoy you + do damage. make sure you keep in mind what pikmin colors are in the line so you have an idea of what he's going to do
DB is also supremely useful in this matchup as olimar's shield is "meh" and it is a really good close range option vs. the slavemaster
be sure you keep in mind the style of the olimar. sometimes you just need to play a little more patiently but if you don't do it at the right times against your olimar opponent you will eat a lot of damage. find what he likes to do and make sure that you find good times to retreat
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
All I know is that there's always a stage that gets renamed to "(insert Olimar player's tag) Cruise/Stadium/Pony Ride" because somehow good Olimars get a feel for certain stages (they kind of have to, it determines pluck ratios, trajectories, etc.)
Punishment Divine
Smash Champion
Castle Siege shall now be declared Sammy Siege in honor of dabuz *hopes he namesearches*
Also, Dancing Blade is INSANELY good against Olimar. He should literally never land in the matchup if you just continue to juggle him. It's also important to learn SDI on the nair because nair to utilt/usmash is really gay
Blacknight99923
Smash Champion
I think rich brown had said olimar was high risk high reward. His damage rack up is amazing but he dies really quickly
Given the nature of olimar I would think he is a very hot/cold character if you dominate the match he can't win. AS MUCH as pressure is important I would think being patient and not getting ***** by his damaging prowess should be noted.
also what are recomendations for DIing out of tornado, my westcoast DI prevents me from doing it
Given the nature of olimar I would think he is a very hot/cold character if you dominate the match he can't win. AS MUCH as pressure is important I would think being patient and not getting ***** by his damaging prowess should be noted.
also what are recomendations for DIing out of tornado, my westcoast DI prevents me from doing it
Olimar also happens to have a critical weakness of our ff fair on shield to grab will come out before he can grab us.
Blacknight99923
Smash Champion
whats the frame data on that?
Lord Chair
Smash Master
Properly canceled fair is -4, grab is 6, makes -10, Olimar's grab is frame 11.
Remzi
formerly VaBengal
I did not know that, THANK YOU SHAYA :D