Marth Metagame Thread

[∫unk]

Me: Hitting with the tip of db1 and the opponent holding away doesn't keep them in
Shaya: Well if you hit with db2 it'll pull them in and it comes out 2 frames faster than "normal"

okay.. what's your point? stop at db2? pulling them in on something you know isn't going to work sounds pretty odd.

 

[Blacknight99923]

I love the west coast and our ****ty DI killing snake is so much easier, well a little anyway

I have played snake probably more then any other character and my advice is

you shouldn't be eating nades be patient its better to make this match take 6 minutes then you losing it

know ftilt and uptilts ranges and know how to not get hit by them

gimp snake

FJ fair
snake and techase marth zelda ike and snake are the hardest characters for snake to techase, unless he guesses it he can't shield a get up attack on reaction due to it hitting his side first. your roll behind him is also like the furthest in the game and your roll away from snake is also pretty far.
its pretty much like this

snake has to
keep his shield up or be in a disadvantedge against get up attack
has to guess which way your going for a regrab and can't punish for reaction
I don't see a lot of snakes do dthrow uptilt so generally waiting for snake to do somthing first is a good idea but if you do think he will uptilt be ready for a buffered roll or get up attack

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=235804 this thread explains it all
in other words remember your advantedges here and what they are

 

[Shaya]

DB1 to DB2 should generally always combo.
If you hit with DB2 the trajectory of the move brings them back closer to Marth, making it harder for them to DI the other hits.

Sorry for not being obvious.

 

[∫unk]

but they get out anyways... you know they get out.

i even saw on livestream m2k got out of a db mike was doing on him

i see mike usually stop at db3 if he knows the last one isn't going to hit, but i don't think stopping at db2 is great because you're putting them at a range that's worse for you

 

[Megavitamins]

Something I noticed while playing Marth:

You don't have to hit them every time you go in.

This may seem obvious to some, but like... let's say you d-tilt db1 (spaced)... a lot of ppl will try to keep attacking (including me), just because you're spaced doesn't make it completely safe, and you probably aren't spaced anymore. Just do a retreating f-air there, back away a little bit, then go back in with a falling spaced f-air. Destroy their shield THEN **** them.

Knowing who has momentum is ridiculously important in this game. It helps your reads.

I think f-throw dancing blade is the best option at low percents against anyone, because of how far it sends them towards the edge. f-throw n-air is also good for this purpose.

All Marth's should probably be clawing. You can't do a perfect retreating f-air otherwise. My guess is you get about a 10% increase in movement from only assigning your analog to movement. You get to do perfect retreating b-air/f-air, full control u-air juggles, etc. It takes about 1-2 weeks to learn so not that bad, highly recommended.

Edit: I hate spaced db1 cause it means the rest of the combo isn't hitting even if it connects T-T I think if you hit with the edge of db1 you should immediately d-tilt or space f-air.

Bengalz - watch mike. you shouldn't be getting hit by nades super often.

Or... you could hold up on the analog, (auto SHs for some reason lol) input airel on c-stick, and quickly move analog to direction you wanna go...

 

[phi1ny3]

omg my favorite thing to do against snake is if he nade dropped behind me I throw him -> aerial or sometimes DB, and while he's still in the air I throw the grenade at him, since if he's still in the air he can't strip the grenade from me, and voila, cooked grenade = boom time.

Probably doesn't happen too often the better the snake gets, but seeing as how you get a lot of grab situations in this MU, and grenades do get left behind, it's pretty nice.

 

[Remzi]

can someone completely breakdown how grenade stripping works? I've never fully understood it...

 

[phi1ny3]

If you hold a grenade and Snake is also but he shield drops it, the one you held/threw will drop dead in it's place regardless of position. I do it sometimes as snake to control how high my grenade goes when someone's recovering really high above me.

 

[∫unk]

Or... you could hold up on the analog, (auto SHs for some reason lol) input airel on c-stick, and quickly move analog to direction you wanna go...

...no that won't compare to the spacing you can get from pure clawing.

Think about it one is using the analog ONLY for horizontal movement.

I should make a video on clawing vs not clawing but I'm way too lazy. It wouldn't take more than 2 minutes in training mode to prove it though and anybody can do it.

 

[clowsui]

i'm at a friend's house right now so i'm able to test

clawing is amazing

the amount of control you gain is sizable. GR -> onstage/offstage dair is possible to get ~80% of the time now whereas before i could only get it 1/10 times
tipping fairs and mixing movement up from the hit is way easier
you can move backwards in the fair way earlier it seems like but that's something i'm not sure of
it's easier to do full hop gr fair now, on mk
only thing that's awkward is using Z to grab but that's it rly

 

[zer0.]

dumb question:

wtf clawing?

 

[phi1ny3]

It's what Jason does with his controller.

Basically you move your index finger away from the R button and onto the A/B/X/Y pad area.

I still feel it's more preference than anything, imo if you're quick enough you can still produce similar results with the regular controller hold (although it's a bit tiring I'll admit).

 

[Punishment Divine]

...no that won't compare to the spacing you can get from pure clawing.

Think about it one is using the analog ONLY for horizontal movement.

I should make a video on clawing vs not clawing but I'm way too lazy. It wouldn't take more than 2 minutes in training mode to prove it though and anybody can do it.

I'd actually like to see a vid of this if anyone could make it

I get the GR dair pretty consistent without claw and seem to be able to control Marth pretty well without it so I'm pretty skeptical

 

[phi1ny3]

^but offstage as well?

 

[Punishment Divine]

^but offstage as well?

offstage is even easier O.o

 

[Shaya]

I naturally move to claw for things like grab release dair on MK.

Need to hold forward the entire time and input jump and c stick down at dah same time!_!

 

[phi1ny3]

Really?

Even Mike has a harder time with air release -> dair offstage. Are you sure we're on the same page, we're talking about the 1 frame difference + just the right amount of run/DJ timing, right?

Man, I'm behind with these shenanigans.

 

[Punishment Divine]

Really?

Even Mike has a harder time with air release -> dair offstage. Are you sure we're on the same page, we're talking about the 1 frame difference + just the right amount of run/DJ timing, right?

yeah D:

idk why i just find it easy to do without clawing. I move the A-Stick down at the last second and hit A really fast by sliding my thumb onto it.

 

[clowsui]

idk for me claw is best because when i get into nervous situations my fingers tighten up really easily so sliding is difficult
not to mention my control stick sensitivity is kind of bad sometimes so sometimes i don't even get a dair lol

 

[Punishment Divine]

idk for me claw is best because when i get into nervous situations my fingers tighten up really easily so sliding is difficult
not to mention my control stick sensitivity is kind of bad sometimes so sometimes i don't even get a dair lol

for me even if i'm nervous i just treat it like I'm pulling a trigger lol. I take a deep breath and exhale as I do it. Kinda dumb but it works for me

 

[zer0.]

Is there any con in clawing besides the time to learn?

If there isn't I'll take the time to learn. I mean, worst case cenario you just wasted time, but who here didn't waste time with useless stuff before in this game?

And, lol, I feel more confortable with index finger on the c-stick and the medium finger on the A/B/Y/X than the thumb on the c-stick and the index on A/B/X/Y. But both are still a bit odd.

 

[phi1ny3]

You have a weird time with grabbing with Z, which means just learning to set a button to something else prob (you don't exactly need two jumping buttons).

for me even if i'm nervous i just treat it like I'm pulling a trigger lol. I take a deep breath and exhale as I do it. Kinda dumb but it works for me

You try doing that in Melee you'll be hyperventilating lol.

 

[Roxas M]

but they get out anyways... you know they get out.

i even saw on livestream m2k got out of a db mike was doing on him

i see mike usually stop at db3 if he knows the last one isn't going to hit, but i don't think stopping at db2 is great because you're putting them at a range that's worse for you

when i played choice sometimes he would DI out of db2-3 and f-air me. i was lolwut? wolf can do that? o.O
if i know that i won't get the full db in i just db1 and see how they react from there.

also, would it be a good idea to get a stock lead on DDD then just f air camp him/f-air just out of his grab range until his shield is low enough to get a tipped f-air or whatever in?(still trying to learn the D3 Mu). i even though about just getting a stock lead and trying to time DDD out. lol

it kinda worked against cpu when i played him but i was too tired to keep it up for 6 minutes. =/ i don't know if its a legit strategy or he just doesn't know the marth MU. i'll probably try it again next tourney when i fight a DDD.( i ALWAYS play a DDD in tournaments)

 

[Remzi]

How exactly does QCDI work?

i.e inputs, utilities, pros, cons

 

[Albert.]

also, would it be a good idea to get a stock lead on DDD then just f air camp him/f-air just out of his grab range until his shield is low enough to get a tipped f-air or whatever in?(still trying to learn the D3 Mu). i even though about just getting a stock lead and trying to time DDD out. lol

The bold is what had me LOLing.

Although honestly that **** would have been funnier if the circumstances were right



Here's why the logic fails though zanebian... If you can get a stock lead on DDD in the first place why wouldn't you just keep doing what you were doing... and have the stock lead when the game is over?

You're acting as if you could just press a magic button (like switching to MK and pressing B) would make it easier to take this stock off DDD....

 

[Mr-R]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gg2x22YH2NE

who said platform cancel was useless o.o

 

[Roxas M]

because last time i was too *insert d word here* worn out to keep doing that for 2 matches.

why must you call me zanebian? >.>

and i was asking because even though it worked doesn't mean its a legit strategy. for all i know i work just because he was trying to bait something off of me. most of the time i get a stock off from something random and it wasn't exactly planned.

 

[Blacknight99923]

I need to do that on platforms now

you almost got really screwed on match 4 you had a opportunity for a GR dair but then you tripped.

at least you won though

 

[∫unk]

there's 2 videos of it up lol i got linked to this one on aim: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qF6Imt2snE0

those are some nice *** platform cancels. good idea.

marth's metagame still has a lot of room of growth.

 

[Blacknight99923]

well you have to think about a few things

one in the process of never being offensive you lose positioning a lot of times eventually D3 will probably have control over a lot of the space and hence your options. I say don't really approach but don't try to time him out when you can exploit him fully and get a bigger lead.



Same thing with snake you DO NOT NEED TO APPROACH SNAKE if you have a lead, don't just sit there and power shield his nades but play a lot safer from that point on, If you have a lead all you need to do is just play smart continue punishing and you win the match.

TL;DR If you control both spacing and zoning along with a lead you will win almost all the time this applies to every match up even MK to a degree

 

[Maharba the Mystic]

i gotta admit, that was pretty cool. that was a really cool match man };~))

 

[GHNeko]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlUiBTrk9ko

I got this made for me last night. :D

What do you guys think about its possibilities and potential?

 

[Raziek]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlUiBTrk9ko

I got this made for me last night. :D

What do you guys think about its possibilities and potential?

Spiffy! I like it. I think I'll see if that works in nicely with my gameplay.

 

[mikeHAZE]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gg2x22YH2NE

who said platform cancel was useless o.o

looooool i did this to dsf in a tournament last month. hella ****

 

[Mr-R]

VIDS OR IT DIDN'T HAPPEN!?
haha jk xD its funny cause i practiced that f smash tipper the day before the tourney JUST INCASE i'd get a grab on a platform

edit: match 3 was missing because of some kind of glitch :/ I uploaded it again so heres it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIgs22B8I-E
Also uploading other matches vs istudying ( diddy ) atm ... not that anyone is interested LOL

 

[Blacknight99923]

if it involves rapage then yes

 

[BacklashMarth]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlUiBTrk9ko

I got this made for me last night. :D

What do you guys think about its possibilities and potential?

Is this tech simply just jumping the instant your jab connects? The video didn't exactly explain how its performed in terms of frames, etc.

 

[GHNeko]

Is this tech simply just jumping the instant your jab connects? The video didn't exactly explain how its performed in terms of frames, etc.

Because it was supposed to be easy to understand.

You hit. You can jump at any point during the move.

 

[BacklashMarth]

Strange, it doesn't seem to cancel for me. I have no idea how or why seeing as how its a simple press of A then jump. :/

 

[GHNeko]

Because it's not in normal Brawl. LOL.

I thought the increased pace of the game. Playing on Wifi Waiting Room. Hitstun. Combos. And the color of my name would of tipped people off. xD

THAT

and

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlUiBTrk9koI got this made for me last night. :D