Marth Metagame Thread

[DEHF]

It works for both cases, doing that would greatly help vs diddy.

I'm sure Marth's side b annoys Diddy Kong players.

 

[Mr-R]

yeah I find d tilt, fair and side b very good against diddy ( Then again when are fair and side b NOT good xD)
his fair always seems to beat outspeed and even outrange my fair though
i guess insta throwing is a must learn against diddy

 

[Albert.]

and you are?

Uhh... I'm Albert.

Couldn't you read my username?

 

[phi1ny3]

I could argue that sideB is bad against DDD

but that'd just be arguing just for the sake of arguing, sideB all in all is a pretty good move.

 

[Shaya]

diddys fair outranges marths.
You need to play diddy in the air like you would ZSS.
**** that lack of disjoint.

 

[Punishment Divine]

I could argue that sideB is bad against DDD

but that'd just be arguing just for the sake of arguing, sideB all in all is a pretty good move.

Side B is amazing in juggle traps and a great option when they mess the chaingrab up (walk away to side-b). Less useful than in other matchups, but still amazing.

 

[Blacknight99923]

Uhh... I'm Albert.

Couldn't you read my username?

No i couldn't

 

[Reizilla]

I always instant throw Diddy's naners, but then I just get grabbed or faired in the lag animation :/ Then again, I'm bad and I have a pretty slow reaction time, but still. haha

 

[Blacknight99923]

you shouldn't always instant throw. grabing somthing to zac (z drop then attack for pick up for those of you who don't know) can be just as usful against diddy.

mabey you should instant throw down so they cant stay below you too

 

[Shaya]

z dropping nanas is really good,
it allows marth to have more free reign of his spacing against diddys fair.

(as in, you can actually be at the range of marths sword against diddy freely rather than outside of it to not get hit by his fair).

By this I mean, if you are at swords length away from diddy above him,
you can z drop, which will STOP him from rising fair, and pretty much freely ff a fair on him. Its a RARE situation though (well I only had it occur once in my most recent set against a diddy).

 

[Player-3]

why would you even hold a banana, if you did z drop is the best option by far


holding a banana severly limits marths options, it's much better to just camp by it while it's under your control and not let diddy get it back, at least in my experience, b/c diddy can't pressure you much with a single nana


if he is just shield the throw > sh fair to catch it


but yeah, z dropping is better than instant throwing for marth, all of marths item throw data is ****, z dropping is like 3 frames whereas throwing feels like 20

 

[Remzi]

Ok, so I'm FINALLY going to my first tourney on Saturday. Should be around 50 there with and a good amount of big names. I'm so hyped.

I'm learning every detail I can about green greens and norfair, I think Marth can really excel on both stages and I think I can kind of use them as an ace in the hole.

 

[Albert.]

Ok, so I'm FINALLY going to my first tourney on Saturday.

Our little baby is finally growing up


Sniff, Sniff. Tear, Tear. LET Saturday be the day known in history as the day the Great Bengals got up out of his wifi couch and into the cold hard clutches of an In-REAL-LIFE Tournament chair.

And then he never sat back.

 

[Reizilla]

Bengalz! About time! You better get top 8 using all of your tricks. Do it for Jermaine Gresham!!!!

 

[etecoon]

go bengals, use does nothing but spam and win combo ; )

 

[Shaya]

Potentially edging towards too social here guys
Maybe if Bengalz listed those bigggggggggggg names and talk about the green greens and norfair hacks.

Personally I agree that both of those stages can be good for Marth, but unfortunately Meta Knight will excel against us on them
Norfair a little less so, if you have the percent lead you can play a pretty strong defensive zoning game on centre platform and also ledge stall quite well yourself.

 

[Remzi]

hahaha, thanks guys. and yea zombie, i am so pumped about gresham lol.

et: i completely forgot about that, lmfao

sorry shaya, a few of those big names off the top of my head are boss, meep, candy, malcolm, and a bunch of others. neo and freezewish might show so thatd be awesome.

i think mk on norfair is hella overrated, btw. marth ***** there. he is amazing with platforms, so controlling the center like you said and trying to keep your opponent above you can really do wonders.

 

[∫unk]

someone else should take over this thread. sorry no time

 

[∫unk]

On the topic of camping Solo Popo so he has to kill himself.

DUDE, I never thought of that. That's really brilliant.

Popo cannot approach at ALL by himself and he'll continue to completely suck until he dies. If you just runaway you can literally not take ANY damage for extensive amounts of time. In which case you either time him out (assuming you got rid of Nana before he killed you first) or he'll have to kill himself to get nana back which is good because

A: it's hilarious
B: frustration
C: no effort
D: no risk involved

Definitely trying this next time I play an IC player, such an amazing idea.

I disagree with C and D, especially on a neutral. Playing with that mindset is only going to end with you taking damage. The only good reason to do this is if you want to time them out. That's hard because Marth only has 2 jumps which severly lowers his air time compared to an air camping/planking Metaknight, which ultimately leads more landings and more ledge grabs.

I could see it on PS1 maybe?

 

[Punishment Divine]

Timing SoPo out actually does take effort.

For one, his uair can still juggle you.

Second, unless you're trying to kill him it's difficult to effectively keep him out. Not actively edgeguarding him is one thing, but forcing yourself not to fair is meh if you're trying to wall him out lol

And if he just hits you with a lucky fsmash/usmash he now has the lead

 

[-Cross-]

This should solely be mastered by EC Marths to use on Cheese. Would be the best if Minty did this to him though. Sweet revenge

 

[Remzi]

Yep, I was joking about most of that. Of course there is risk involved, and SoPo only is great from below and still has some decent pokes/aerials. You're going to get hit if you just run away. Light walling and not edgeguarding however, would probably work well.

And yes, someone should definitely do that to Cheese hahaha.

Also, MK could probably pull this off a lot better than we could.

 

[Shaya]

If you are on battlefield and are on the highest platform, Sopo noticable telegraphing and requires a bit of commitment to get to you safely (if he comes from below you just dash/jump, Sopo has to full hop/double jump to get to you; if he comes from the sides his aerial mobility isnt exactly daunting for our dash speed...). And I am not sure how many traps Sopo can manage on smashville beyond someone naively forgetting about platform cancelling.

Whilst we dont have 5 jumps we have DB1 to mix things in. Theres definitely risk involved. But I do feel theres a stack in Marths favour here.

If I ever kill nana with more stocks (+time) remaining Ill:
Get Sopo to kill percents if he isnt already
Then do the run around game. If I play safely, even if I get hit Im living to ridiculous percents; if I die Ill finish sopo off in moments.

 

[Reizilla]

Whatever happened to the Marth Tournament Results thread? Did the boards just decide that it was a lost cause? I thought it was a pretty good idea.

 

[Rubberbandman]

Whatever happened to the Marth Tournament Results thread? Did the boards just decide that it was a lost cause? I thought it was a pretty good idea.

I always thought those kinds of threads sucked, they do nothing but boost egos

If I ever kill nana with more stocks (+time) remaining Ill:
Get Sopo to kill percents if he isnt already
Then do the run around game. If I play safely, even if I get hit Im living to ridiculous percents; if I die Ill finish sopo off in moments.

You can just camp, since SoPo HAS to come to you to kill. If he's looking to rack up damage he has to either IB camp or approach hard, both are easily stopped.

 

[Blacknight99923]

do ice climbers really have an approuch on marth in general

 

[Rubberbandman]

Advancing Blizzard Wall to an extent.

 

[Reizilla]

I always thought those kinds of threads sucked, they do nothing but boost egos


You can just camp, since SoPo HAS to come to you to kill. If he's looking to rack up damage he has to either IB camp or approach hard, both are easily stopped.

I don't think you can boost these egos much more XD

But I think that it would be useful for character matchup discussions.

 

[Shaya]

I think the metagame thread could afford to adopt it.
As in, just having a periods top marth placers on ankokus list + comparison to another character or whatever.

My attempts at getting win/loss ratios at tournaments is generally too much work and blah blah.

 

[Rubberbandman]

I don't think you can boost these egos much more XD
.

Lies.

Shaya is thinking of ways to boost his ego as we speak.

But it helping with MUs, idk really.

 

[Reizilla]

Lies.

Shaya is thinking of ways to boost his ego as we speak.

But it helping with MUs, idk really.

You know, like if there was a trend of X months, where Marths started to lose to Diddy's more or something, we could take a look at that match-up and see what's shifted in the metagame or something. I dunno. Just throwing out ideas.

 

[Blacknight99923]

IF ADHD really switched to MK then mike is about to start ****** every diddy

 

[Punishment Divine]

IF ADHD really switched to MK then mike is about to start ****** every diddy

He trolled everyone, keep up with the times.

 

[Remzi]

guys i suck balls against snake, anyone wanna dump some advice on me?

 

[Reizilla]

inb4usemoarnairfromshaya

 

[Shaya]

Nair isnt exactly a paramount move to help against Snake. Rising full hop nairs are just as or less useful than full hop rising fairs for pressuring snake.

So bengals, lets start with some questions:

1. What percent are you killing Snake?
2. How often are you getting blown up by grenades?
3. What situations are you in when you get ftilted?
4. What stages are available for you as the starter, and what are you striking?

 

[Albert.]

What sucks is if...

You avoid the FTilt enough.

Then it's fresh.

If you don't avoid the FTilt, you're taking massive damage.

loss/loss

 

[Remzi]

Nair isnt exactly a paramount move to help against Snake. Rising full hop nairs are just as or less useful than full hop rising fairs for pressuring snake.

So bengals, lets start with some questions:

1. What percent are you killing Snake?
2. How often are you getting blown up by grenades?
3. What situations are you in when you get ftilted?
4. What stages are available for you as the starter, and what are you striking?

1.) It varies, but unless I gimp him it's usually going to be from around 180-210 lol

2.) very.... often

3.) i don't eat a lot of ftilt, if i do it's usually just if I mess up my spacing

4.) 5 stage: FD, BF, SV, PS1, YI. I usually strike YI and BF first if I know it's a snake. I try to end up taking it to SV.

9 stage: FD, BF, SV, PS1, YI, Lylat, Delfino, Castle Siege, Halberd. I'll strike Halberd right away as well as castle siege and then probably YI. I personally have a strong distaste for Lylat, but I'll keep it around until some of the worse stages are gone first. I make it my goal to go to either Delfino or SV here.

 

[∫unk]

Something I noticed while playing Marth:

You don't have to hit them every time you go in.

This may seem obvious to some, but like... let's say you d-tilt db1 (spaced)... a lot of ppl will try to keep attacking (including me), just because you're spaced doesn't make it completely safe, and you probably aren't spaced anymore. Just do a retreating f-air there, back away a little bit, then go back in with a falling spaced f-air. Destroy their shield THEN **** them.

Knowing who has momentum is ridiculously important in this game. It helps your reads.

I think f-throw dancing blade is the best option at low percents against anyone, because of how far it sends them towards the edge. f-throw n-air is also good for this purpose.

All Marth's should probably be clawing. You can't do a perfect retreating f-air otherwise. My guess is you get about a 10% increase in movement from only assigning your analog to movement. You get to do perfect retreating b-air/f-air, full control u-air juggles, etc. It takes about 1-2 weeks to learn so not that bad, highly recommended.

Edit: I hate spaced db1 cause it means the rest of the combo isn't hitting even if it connects T-T I think if you hit with the edge of db1 you should immediately d-tilt or space f-air.

Bengalz - watch mike. you shouldn't be getting hit by nades super often.

 

[Shaya]

DB2 comes out 2 frames faster than the normal, so it can cover people moving away, and the trajectory of the hit pushes them towards you.