Marth match-up thread

[Shadow 111]

Usually Marth would Samsh DI up when hit off the stage to avoid getting gimped.

I have no idea why I was trying to recover low vs you. lol. I should know better.

You Marth's counter means MK can't abuse his B moves for once. I feel sorry for other characters, lol.

MK is lighter, but with better rushdown, and better edgeguarding. He also has better recovery.

Marth is a bit heavier, better killing power, more range, better zoning/camping. But his edgegaurding isn't as good and his smashes are more punishable.

I tendto go back and forth in my head as to how the match-up is in terms of who has advantage or if it's neutral. But I REALLY REALLY feel like this is one of the most even match-ups in the game at the highest level.

At any level but the highest it's MK's advantage though. He is easier to pick and do well with, while Marth requires alot more effort and knowledge to really bring out his full potential.

i agree with you on all of that... and lol yea you were trying to recover low too much and once got daired 3 times at 30% and died -__- lol.

 

[meepxzero]

I think snake is a more even match up than metaknight ;\

 

[Emblem Lord]

HAHAHAHAHAHA.

I don't but I can see why you would say that.

I think Marth puts up a good fight vs both of them.

We Marth mains should feel sorry for other characters that get WTFOWNED by Snake and MK.

LOL.

 

[Kiwikomix]

@ EL: Are you aware that Kirby's f-smash outranges and has equal priority to all of Marth's ground attacks? Also, a good Kirby will only start approaching Marth on the downswing of his Final Cutter, leaving less of a chance for punishment since the hitbox will be in front and the shockwaves will stop any ground approach. The majority of Kirby's attacks actually count as a disjoint because they involve his shoes, so his priority, while not enough to override Marth's, can actually cancel out Marth's attacks. I'm not sure which character's attacks come out first, though.
One other note: Kirby isn't as easy to edgeguard as you imply. Final Cutter, if used at the right time, will
outprioritize Marth's oncoming attacks, and airdodge->inhale will usually work on Kirby's part. From that point, Kirby can either spit Marth into the side of the stage and bair-spike (stage spiking), stick him underneath the stage where he can't recover from (stage gimping), or just Kirbycide. And yes, I do know that the first two options don't work on some stages without walls underneath the ledge.
That being said, I acknowledge that Kirby in no way outperforms or is equal to Marth, and I'm sure that this post probably won't even change the matchup to 6:4...

*Waits for comeback argument and general ridicule*

 

[Emblem Lord]

Orly@ Kirby's f-smash.

Not really impressed though. Outragning Marth now is not a big deal as I have stated numerous times. I was actually planning on changing this to 6/4.

Did I say Kirby was easy to edgeguard? Let me check the first post.

Edit: No, I did not state that Marth could edgeguard Kirby.

 

[∫unk]

Kirby's f-smash is good. One of the better f-smashes. Comes out fast, huge range, good priority, if fresh often can kill around 100%.

A good Kirby isn't easy to edgeguard. Multiple jumps followed by multiple air dodges with good DI makes this difficult. I'm not sure if Final Cutter gets out prioritized but you honestly shouldn't be using it that much to recover. Brawl is so floaty you can make it back with just your jumps.

Kirbycide MAY only work once per match. It's not something you can rely on.

It's still 7:3. Marth can just zone f-airs and kirby has a hard time getting through that. A really good Kirby can bring the match more even (6:4), but a mediocre Marth should always beat a mediocre Kirby.

 

[Kiwikomix]

Did I say Kirby was easy to edgeguard? Let me check the first post.

He has great recvoery so gimping is is difficult.

My mistake.

 

[Emblem Lord]

No problem.

 

[Dark Sonic]

In your opinion, all of the matchups are either even or advantageous for Marth? That's a bit much I think.

Well, Marth also doesn't destroy many characters either (just Ness really). Having a lot of even matchups is actually the sign of a well balanced character in general. He's got the tools to deal with everybody, but he's not so good in any of them that he really destroys anybody (except Ness of course).

 

[Desire]

i agree, olimar should kill marth

very nice btw

 

[Steel]

i agree, olimar should kill marth

very nice btw

Hit olimar off the stage.

Seriously, it works.

 

[Emblem Lord]

When he throws stuff at you kill it with your sword.

It works good.

 

[gallax]

olimar is easily gimped off the stage. get him off and you should win.

 

[FishkeeperTimmay!]

When he throws stuff at you kill it with your sword.

It works good.

JabbityJabJab?

Or F-tiltityTiltTilt?

Olimar's Side-B is no issue if you played against Peach a lot in Melee. ^^

 

[meepxzero]

After playing marth my last recent tourney and playin my crewmates and other people. Id probably change 2 things on the match up list.

Snake and marth is a really even match up at high levels. If snake just stands around pulling nades and chucking them at u he just eats fairs easily. Then you can forward b him all day to make his shield smaller. You have to learn to react real fast on what he does as your forward bing tho... If he shields all the whole thing just slow the speed of forward b and do the down b finisher to poke through his shield. If he rolls immediately stop what your doing if possible. If he picks up the habit of rolling against u you can use it against him and do one forward b and then forward b him the other way when he rolls. The match up itself forces marth to go all out fair spamming and forward b on snake. Its the battle between his ftilt and your forward b. What probably made this more of an uneven match was the fact that his utilt kills at stupid percents... But marth is one of the only few that can dair spike him and kill him at stupid percents as well. Even if he does a mine recovery to get his cypher back just spike him again it should be like pie to spike a snake. I would probably favor this match up to marth, but the random factor of nades being all over the screen can make the outcome completely random

Zerosuit samus is probably even with marth or 6:4 her favor

She spaces way better with her forward b better than marths fair -_-. Im probably completely unfamilar with this match up... I just feel that since her forward b kills and marths fairs doesnt kill in the long run it would just b her killing you before you kill her? I was playin matches wit chillin where i was just trying to play catch up on stocks with him no matter what i did he was always killing me a stock ahead >_>. I know in ur guide it says to get inside her and not to challenge her in a range battle. But even if u shield through her foward b she can jab you instantly right after... messing up your forward b outta shield.

 

[Emblem Lord]

ZSS is a very close match.

Honestly the forward B is really the main thing she has on him.

Play the match more and you will get used to it. And once you start gimping her you will see it's regarded to be in Marth's favor.

Remember it's not fair at all to judge a match when oyu have very little experience in it or you simply aren't sure what to do.

Remember what Azen says? Don't jump into the **** guys.

Zoning ZSS is all about penetrating that range and using your superior close range capabilities to take control.

Marth isn't all spacing and he can play rush down when he wants and he is **** good at it. I hardly ever use fairs in an approach. I'm much more fond of full run to shield to shield drop w/e or if I block an attack then I can punish.

Also remember that Chillin is already used to your Marth meep assuming you play with him alot. Where as you may not be used to his ZSS or even any ZSS at all.

But honestly this is just another match where his opponents weaknesses tip it in his favor.

I'm sure you have all noticed that Marth has alot of match-ups like that.

Anyway it's very close. But I will still give Marth the nod, only because when I play ZSS's the only that truely concerns me is that forward b. Marth overall is just a more solid character with better options. He kills sooner and he will live longer when both characters are played well.

And yes, he can gimp ZSS. I have gimped Ryoko's ZSS and Snakeee's ZSS. And they are two of the best ZSS's on the EC. And my Marth isn't even that hot.

If I can do it, I know you can do it meep.

Stop being a little *****. lol.

Everytime you play a new match-up you come in here acting like Marth gets countered. LMAO!!

Take some time to figure match-ups out before you make these claims. haha

 

[alchfilosofer]

^
Don't you think you're being a little to extrict? Come on, we marth boards, are supposed to help us, and we help us, his only problem was not realize if the Fair get close (which is no near as good as melee), then try other move, and since it gets countered by side B (an attack), you should try shield approach, or even a counter approach could be useful.

 

[TKD+ITA+Mar=]

Yeah, as much as a help you are on the Marth boards, your ending was a little harsh. Maybe you should edit it out before meep sees it

 

[Zankoku]

Doesn't seem harsh to me. Grow some backbone, surely meep can live through a couple sentences.

 

[TKD+ITA+Mar=]

But we really don't need a flame war, they are quite unproductive.

 

[Zankoku]

<_<

meep would have to be a box of matches for that to start a flamewar.

Also, I'm going to keep insisting that Marth > Olimar until the matchup gets changed. <3

 

[meepxzero]

lol dont worry me and emblem lord are kool i know hes joking half the time =p. ZSS and marth are even at best its just i never played the match up at all.

 

[Emblem Lord]

lol@Ankoku. Box of matches. That made me lol IRL.

 

[meepxzero]

^
Don't you think you're being a little to extrict? Come on, we marth boards, are supposed to help us, and we help us, his only problem was not realize if the Fair get close (which is no near as good as melee), then try other move, and since it gets countered by side B (an attack), you should try shield approach, or even a counter approach could be useful.

shield approaching doesnt work too well against zss after the forward b she can jab your shield or probably grab u. Counter approaching may sound good in theory but it will never work all the time.People dont give marths fair enough credit anymore. I really dont believe marths fair got shorter with the game change its just a lot more characters have the same range as he does now and the fact now aerials dont out proritize ground moves anymore it goes by which attack comes out quicker.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Meep: Marth's sword got shorter therefore his fair range is shorter.

I love run to shield, since you can just drop it after you shield something. It works really well.

Also SH airdodge works well too.

 

[Deleted member]

IF yoshi gets his final smash, he can beat marth w1t4 t34 ph1r3z xD

 

[∫unk]

The one thing ZSS has on Marth is her body. If only she wore a tiara and had a falchion.

Cross-up attacks work really well against her.

 

[Benjamin Linus]

I think you grossly underestimate Marth just as you did when you first posted in the tier list discussion thread. You live in NJ correct? Why not come to some NJ tournies instead of the NY weeklies? I know that NY doesn't think much of Marth anyway.

DK: This could be even, but most DK players don't think it's DK's advantage at all. And neither do I. Also you have to remember that the DK you are playing is BUM is it not. BUM IS DK. I'm not joking. He made DK what he is. You on the other hand have not tapped into Marth's full potential nor are you on Bum's level. It's not fair of you to say that DK beats Marth just because you are losing to the man that made DK and who is also a much better player.

Fox: Agreed. I'll probably change it.

Dedede: I have actually taken out the second best Dedede in tourney with my Marth recently. I think it's even because once Marth gets in he can pressure Dedede and outspace his grab. Also Waddle Dees are pretty easy to contend with. Marth can also really harrass Dedede's recovery.

Ivysaur: She is just bad, plain and simple. Her projectile is a joke. Shield it or jab it. Neutral b is one of the few good things about he, but get her off the side and she is done. Marth just runs through her IMO.

Kirby: I could see it as 6/4, but Marth outranges and outspeeds him. Plus he is light. 7/3 seems good to me.

Lucario: There was a huge debate about this and I suspect the debate will never end. Marth and Lucario match up really well. It's a close fight. Points can be made for it to be even or slight advantage for either side. I think there is enough evidence to give slight edge to Marth. Lucario does not outrange Marth other then f-smash. If Lucario or nayone spot dodges Dancing Blade then they eat the rest of the hits plain and simple.

Luigi: This is Marth's advantage no question. Marth has more speed, more range, better options, better gimping. Luigi has to contend with all that and try to get inside. This goes to Marth.

Yoshi: All Yoshi has in this match is eggs. That's it. That's his only real advantage. Also You can footstool yoshi when he jumps. It screws him since he has no true up b recovery. It could be 6/4, but right now I really think it's 7/3 and I have played the best Yoshi in NJ.

Zamus: The main thing about ehr is that she is weak and isn't too great at killing. Marth can pressure her pretty well and pressure her well off the stage. It's not some huge advantage, but the ZSS boards agree that it's Marths advantage however slight.

As for Snake, throw his nades back at him and just play patiently. You think playing Snake vs Marth is tough? Try it with another lesser character.

It's ****ing impossible.

Also feel free to hit me up on AIM if you want to talk. I feel like you are just blindly rushing people when you play Marth from what I have read in your post. We can talk about w/e. Match-ups, strats, even set-up some online games.

Junkinthetrunk: You don't insult me with posts like that. Sometimes you think I'm a 12 year old?

Dude, just stop right there. It's uncalled for. And I honestly did feel like he was being a little rude to me which is why I said what I did and we worked it out.

There was no need for you to say something like that.

i know this is old but i still believe you were off on these match ups and i never got to respond to it.

De3: you said you can outspace De's Grab?!?! WHAT??!?! you need to show me this. De probably has the best grab range in the game so i cant see how thats possible. also you said when you get in. Getting in, in general is hard task let alone doing well once your there. De has edgegaurding and killing power on marth. Marth can't kill him, and while its true you can pester his recovery its risky because De can do all of his offensive aerials during his jumps while recoverying.

KIRBY: Marth may out range kirby but your overlooking all the things kirby can do back. Kirby can spike marth easily, kirby can combo marth out of grab at low percents, kirby can kill marth at early-average percents with hammers or well timed bairs or spike, kirby can approach marth with bairs by attacking quickly between marth's spaced attacks. This match up is really not that easy EL.

Lucario: EL, you overlooked his roll and spamming. Lucario's roll is very safe. i often wait and predict rolls only to find out that he can just roll away again before i can grab him or do anything else. starting attacks is risky because he can roll behind you instantly and punish you. Lucario has rediculous edgegaurds against marth. you can ask DJ nintendo if you dont believe me. ive been fair'ed past my recovery point so many times and there was nothing i could do.

Luigi: i am starting to agree a little with you on this one, however luigi's bair is not outspaced by marth. because its quick and has high priority ive tried to fair and nair it but lost the spacing battle. nair sometimes works but its risky because it takes longer to end then the other moves.

Yoshi: Are you talking about pride? hes good and you didnt see how yoshi can fight marth well? yoshi is just as fast as marth and has no problem killing. yoshi also has grab range on marth and maybe itsme but yoshi's have no problem getting past my camping.

 

[grandmaster192]

why do you guys have marth even with metaknight? This should be 6-4 in metaknight's favor.

 

[Steel]

why do you guys have marth even with metaknight? This should be 6-4 in metaknight's favor.

We have him even with meta knight because it's an even match up.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Because when I talk to good Marth's and good Metaknight's both sides think it's even.

Benjamin: ALL of Marth's moves ground moves outrange Dedede's grab and well spaced fairs can outspace them too. I have done this countless times in tourney. I just beat Pride's Yoshi in tourney this past weekend. I won 2-0 against him. He severly underestimates Marth. I don't blame him though. Most Marth's just flat out suck or have no idea what they are doing, or don't know how to fight projectile spam. I don't think I ever said the match vs Kirby is easy, but it's still Marth's fight. And I changed to a 6/4 ratio. Lucario vs Marth is one of the closest matches in the game. Anyway, if you force the roll/spotdodge with a d-tilt/SHFF Fair then you can get a free hit. I have done this many times as well. If you can't do it then get better. What else can I tell you?

About Luigi. Uhhh, you cannot lose a spacing battle to a move that has less range then yours. What happened is you failed to space correctly and his attacks hit your hand which stuffed your move. Space better.

 

[VietGeek]

We have him even with meta knight because it's an even match up.

Infallible logic is infallible.

 

[meepxzero]

lol im the only good marth that thinks mk has a slight edge over marth >_>a, but then again im in the region with the best mk player.

 

[Shadow 111]

lol im the only good marth that thinks mk has a slight edge over marth >_>a, but then again im in the region with the best mk player.

who? lol.
i think the matchup is even... there's no way to say either has advantage really...

also EL .. all of marths attacks outrange d3's grab? really? i didn't know that lol... even jabs? O_o

 

[meepxzero]

who? lol.
i think the matchup is even... there's no way to say either has advantage really...

also EL .. all of marths attacks outrange d3's grab? really? i didn't know that lol... even jabs? O_o

talkin bout forte lol. He beat me as well as beating azen and chillin last c3. THe match up is advantageous slightly for marth on stage and then when its off stage mk has a greater advantage.

 

[alchfilosofer]

shield approaching doesnt work too well against zss after the forward b she can jab your shield or probably grab u. Counter approaching may sound good in theory but it will never work all the time.People dont give marths fair enough credit anymore. I really dont believe marths fair got shorter with the game change its just a lot more characters have the same range as he does now and the fact now aerials dont out proritize ground moves anymore it goes by which attack comes out quicker.

Indeed, but if you mix up whit some surprise dolphin slash, I think shield approach could be very useful.

 

[Shadow 111]

forte? he beat them? wow.. my brother played him on wifi.. he didnt seem that impressive lol.. either he got better or wifi is gay lol.
anyway.. who do they use? (azen and chillin)
sorry EL but i was actually curious about who the top players in melee were using now in brawl lol.. i wont post stuff irrelevant after this one=/

 

[meepxzero]

uhh chillin uses snake/ddd mainly and azen uses lucario/snake mayb?. wifi is gay lol i havent played on it in months.

 

[Emblem Lord]

LMAO!!!

Don't sweat it.

 

[grandmaster192]

forte? he beat them? wow.. my brother played him on wifi.. he didnt seem that impressive lol.. either he got better or wifi is gay lol.
anyway.. who do they use? (azen and chillin)
sorry EL but i was actually curious about who the top players in melee were using now in brawl lol.. i wont post stuff irrelevant after this one=/

Are you kidding me? Forte is the best player on earth. He owns everyone.