Marth match-up thread

[HRNUT (Honey Roasted)]

a DK that spams the Bair perfectly is also a beast to deal with...and trust me countering doesn't work and if the Bair is used correctly it'll space marth so that he can't retaliate...that fight against DK is so annoying...any one else fought a DK that does that...got any tips?

 

[Gishnak]

@Shok. Marth vs Snake is certainly not an even match up. Play a well-versed snake as Marth and you'll see this.

 

[∫unk]

a DK that spams the Bair perfectly is also a beast to deal with...and trust me countering doesn't work and if the Bair is used correctly it'll space marth so that he can't retaliate...that fight against DK is so annoying...any one else fought a DK that does that...got any tips?

If you can't win in the air stay on the ground. Shielding his b-airs followed by punishment after is too good.

 

[Emblem Lord]

You are not supposed to play a spacing game vs DK. You will lose if you do so.

You have to rush him and stay inside his zone so that your superior speed and mobility will give you an edge at close range. Approach with running into shields, d-tilt, or Dancing Blade. Once you penetrate his range stay inside and keep the pressure on. Lock him down with well spaced tilts and fairs once you get inside. Punish any mistakes with Dancing Blade and remember to gimp that recovery.

 

[Shök]

Uh, what? I hope you're joking lol.

Also, interesting what Meep said. I've never played vs a great MK, or a Lucario for that matter. Makes me want to start playing Luc lol

I am.
LOL

 

[Shök]

IMO Marth vs Sheik is 6:4 in Marth's favor.
Marth has priority, range and killing power, while Sheik only has speed and some auto combos. That's all for Sheik really. With Marth's range he should be able to tear through Sheik's attacks and hit her while she can't hit him back

Just my two cents.

@SHOK
Your match up list is scary.

LOL.
Not that scary

 

[Dark.Pch]

EL- We have to play again and I will show you one way or another that the match is 6-4

 

[JesiahTEG]

Wolf vs Marth should be 9:1 in Wolf's favor..xD

 

[YagamiLight]

Wolf vs Marth should be 9:1 in Wolf's favor..xD

Haha, maybe not that high, but I don't think Wolf is really bad against Marth, if he decides to be a bit defensive.

P.S.: I fully took your advice Jesiah and switched from a Ike main to a Marth main, I also decided to main Wolf as well. It's working out great.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Peach sucks.

But you are good Dark Pch.

lol.

 

[Benjamin Linus]

EL, im having trouble believing marth doesnt have one bad match up in the game. it could be my skill but toon links are proving extremely hard and De3's also. maybe its because im not so good but Pc also quit marth when he lost to De3 in tourney. The Kirby match up is not that much in marth's favor. marth zelda is not 6-4 marth but probably even because zelda has alot of quick moves with high priority out of shield. she can camp marth and kill him fairly easily.

 

[Emblem Lord]

The Zelda boards agree it's 6-4 and I beat the best Zelda in NJ in tourney just last night. I hate mentioning my tourney results, but dammit it seems like people just don't want to believe anything unless you bring in tourney results.

Remember it's not like Marth ***** alot of people. ALOT of his match-ups vs the good characters are merely even. If you want to win you BETTER know your ****.

Dedede really only has the CG on Marth and I was tlaking with M2K about this and we both agreed that Marth is the hardest to CG. He slides the farthest out of all the CGable characters, so you have to be perfect to nail it. Against alot of Dedede's half the time you can try to buffer roll and you would get away. If they are really good then yeah you can't get out of it, but even then you will usually only take around 20%. Marth can do some the same kind of damage with a D-tilt to Dancing Blade combo. Also both Marth and Dedede have some really evil edgeguarding stuff on each other.

PC quit Marth because he wants to win and Marth isn't the best it's as simple as that. He knows Marth is good, but who cares about good, when you want to win. When money is on the line things change and people will do w/e it takes to get them as close to a gauranteed victory as possible.

Kirby doesn't have **** on Marth except he is a good killer.

And Zelda can't camp Marth. Zelda's camping isn't even that good.

 

[Doodx]

The Zelda boards agree it's 6-4 and I beat the best Zelda in NJ in tourney just last night. I hate mentioning my tourney results, but dammit it seems like people just don't want to believe anything unless you bring in tourney results.

Remember it's not like Marth ***** alot of people. ALOT of his match-ups vs the good characters are merely even. If you want to win you BETTER know your ****.

Dedede really only has the CG on Marth and I was tlaking with M2K about this and we both agreed that Marth is the hardest to CG. He slides the farthest out of all the CGable characters, so you have to be perfect to nail it. Against alot of Dedede's half the time you can try to buffer roll and you would get away. If they are really good then yeah you can't get out of it, but even then you will usually only take around 20%. Marth can do some the same kind of damage with a D-tilt to Dancing Blade combo. Also both Marth and Dedede have some really evil edgeguarding stuff on each other.

PC quit Marth because he wants to win and Marth isn't the best it's as simple as that. He knows Marth is good, but who cares about good, when you want to win. When money is on the line things change and people will do w/e it takes to get them as close to a gauranteed victory as possible.

Kirby doesn't have **** on Marth except he is a good killer.

And Zelda can't camp Marth. Zelda's camping isn't even that good.

i thought pc mained snake or did he main marth before?
um i would think rob vs marh is 6:4 for rob because i believe rob can gimp marths recovery if he tries because hes got sweet aerials
his recovery is like 20 times better than marths and i dont think an rob will be too scared of getting stage spiked
rob has projectiles and his fully charged laser can sometimes kill your ***
the only think i see marth having an advantage over rob his speed even though rob has some fast attacks such as fair(lol the only one hes got
rob WILL NOT be spiked because of his crazy *** recovery
i think rob has an even amount of STRONG killing moves bair fsmash nair......
ALSO he is the most annoiying char to play with which makes it better for him because you get unmotivated(ROFL)

 

[Emblem Lord]

With good DI Marth can avoid gimps pretty easily. I think I have been gimped only a handful of times in tourney and that was only when I had to go low because I was sent at a low trajectory. But if you Smash DI up anytime you get hit then you will almost never get gimped.

Plus Marth has good aerial movement which helps avoid gimps as well.

R.O.B's kill moves blow ***. I'm not even joking. If R.O.B is forced to use his up b he is an easy target if he is close to the stage since he can't airdodge. He would have to use an attack THEN airdodge.

Marth has better close range options, and a better A move set overall. Plus R.O.B telegraphs his good moves alot. Right now I think it's even, but this is a very debatable match-up so we will see what happens.

 

[Doodx]

With good DI Marth can avoid gimps pretty easily. I think I have been gimped only a handful of times in tourney and that was only when I had to go low because I was sent at a low trajectory. But if you Smash DI up anytime you get hit then you will almost never get gimped.

Plus Marth has good aerial movement which helps avoid gimps as well.

R.O.B's kill moves blow ***. I'm not even joking. If R.O.B is forced to use his up b he is an easy target if he is close to the stage since he can't airdodge. He would have to use an attack THEN airdodge.

Marth has better close range options, and a better A move set overall. Plus R.O.B telegraphs his good moves alot. Right now I think it's even, but this is a very debatable match-up so we will see what happens.

i dont know if anyone has seen this before but if you are hanging from the ledge and ike is going to up b under you then just as you are hanging on the ledge press downb(counter) and it will either send ike down left or down right(depends on which side) or it can even stagespike lol
i havent tested it too much since i dont know many people who use ike

 

[blazingIKE33]

Are you sure Marth can run even with ROB? ROB's range seems to rival Marth's, except that he's got projectiles and lasting hitboxes to go with that. It's really difficult to find an optimal range to pressure ROB in, and Marth's mistakes are easy to punish, while ROB has a decent margin of error because his attacks last longer than a split second.

r.o.b. is a character who is pressured with close combat

 

[Emblem Lord]

Bump to the top.

 

[Benjamin Linus]

El, After a month of thorough Marth training, i believe im ready to challenge your opinion on Marths match ups. i think its almost absurd to say that marth has little to no bad match ups.

i am also questioning your experience in tourney with marth. I've heard little about you in the NJ tourney scene and so im not sure where most of your knowledge of the match ups come from.

First off id like to discuss Snake v Marth because it will set the tone for the rest of marths difficult match ups. Currently i believe you have snake v marth 6/4. This can't be possible for a variety of reasons. Snake has Marths 2 Greatest weaknesses. 1. strong kill moves and 2. More range. Not to mention these are the things snakes abuse at whatever time they want. After trying to follow your advise on what to do instead i learned that the all mighty dancing blade is flawed in many aspects.

Dancing Blade is fast and good for pushing your opponent away however its very easy to get punished or avoided as well. I have had many players shield the first hit (with good spacing) and roll behind me. The start up of the DB is fast but ending is very laggy. ive also had players Roll inbetween the hits. i dont know how that happens but i dont think its because of how fast i press B. dancing blade has also caused my opponents to use super armor smashes or moves in between hits to knock me out of it. you may think its because i over use it but believe me i don't.

Snake Completely ***** marth in the areas that give marth his advantage over most characters. Well spaced fairs are almost always punished by ftilt or uptilt. Snakes constant snake dashing is very difficult to counter and hits through the dancing blade. Snake also kills marth at about 120 with proper DI. Snake can out camp marth with projectiles or just well spaced ftilts & up tilts and while marth may be able to spike snake, most smart snakes up b far off the stage and usually avoid being gimped. Marth not only has a hard time approaching snake but also killing him like everyone else does >_>. i would say the match up is 7-3 and marths truely have to fight and struggle to get a win from that match.

i have to go but after i will take about Marth v DK and Marth v Rob and Marth v bowser.

but on a quick note, marth v sheik is certainly not even. Sheiks have a terrible time dealing with marths spacing and sword dance.

 

[Demonstormkill]

This might be a little off topic but... Is there any reliable way to deal with spammy wolfs ONLINE (on a flat stage like FD)? The description of how to beat him is to pshield the lasers and approach with good spacing. It seems like that becomes exponentially harder when you add lag to the equation. Just wondering, because I'm getting tired of losing to laser spam in online play. Countering on approach might work a few times, but it's just too risky to keep using it. I find myself just jumping around wolf and waiting for him to slip up to approach.

 

[TKD+ITA+Mar=]

(Off topic)-- Nice job getting into the SBR Emblem Lord =)

 

[Emblem Lord]

Marth is pretty bad online and Wolf is pretty godly online.

There really isn't a whole lot to be done about it IMO.

That said I love playing online because it gives me a handicap and I really have to pay attention to my opponents and play on their bad habits/mistakes to beat them.

Also thanks for the congrats bro.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Benjamin Linus: I just took 5th at a PA tourney two weeks back and I recently took 3rd at an NJ tourney. I don't like to bring up my tourney results, but you challenged me so there it is.

You question my tourney experience? What have you done in tournies? This is why I don't like to bring up that aspect in debates. I feel like if your points are valid then you can debate freely regardless of what your tournament record is. But if you want to play it that way, you need to make sure your tournament record holds up too. Otherwise you really shouldn't bring it up.

Choose your words carefully next time. The way you worded your post honestly made me quite angry and I'm resisting the urge to flame the hell out of you.

Snake and Marth have pretty equal range actually. Marth's d-tilt outranges all of Snakes moves except the second hit of the f-tilt. Other then that all their ground moves are virtually equal in range. Dancing Blade is safe if you know what you are doing. If they shield the first hit then you need to stop doing the attack. If they tend to roll after they block then Marth can roll away to avoid retaliation.

If people are using attacks with SA on them to stuff your DB then you are getting far too predictable and just spamming it all day. Mix-up your approach and don't get predictable.

I said in my original analysis that fairs are not wise vs Snake so that point you made about them is invalid as I already established that Marth has to play a ground game vs Snake. If Snake abuses Snake dashing Marth can use any attack to knock Snake out of the U-smash part of it or he can counter. But the Snake dash itself doesn't even do much damage. It's just annoying.

The main thing that makes it 6/4 is Snake's weight and his killing power. But Marth does a whole lot better vs Snake then the majority of the cast. Snake is juggle bait vs Marth and it's easy to spike him or harrass his recovery when he is close to the stage. Vs Sanke you can't just run up to him and spam Dancing Blade. You will get merked. You have to play patient and rely more on d-tilt and know when to punish.

And I'm starting to agree on the Marth vs Sheik match-up.

 

[Benjamin Linus]

Benjamin Linus: I just took 5th at a PA tourney two weeks back and I recently took 3rd at an NJ tourney. I don't like to bring up my tourney results, but you challenged me so there it is.

You question my tourney experience? What have you done in tournies? This is why I don't like to bring up that aspect in debates. I feel like if your points are valid then you can debate freely regardless of what your tournament record is. But if you want to play it that way, you need to make sure your tournament record holds up too. Otherwise you really shouldn't bring it up.

Choose your words carefully next time. The way you worded your post honestly made me quite angry and I'm resisting the urge to flame the hell out of you.

Snake and Marth have pretty equal range actually. Marth's d-tilt outranges all of Snakes moves except the second hit of the f-tilt. Other then that all their ground moves are virtually equal in range. Dancing Blade is safe if you know what you are doing. If they shield the first hit then you need to stop doing the attack. If they tend to roll after they block then Marth can roll away to avoid retaliation.

If people are using attacks with SA on them to stuff your DB then you are getting far too predictable and just spamming it all day. Mix-up your approach and don't get predictable.

I said in my original analysis that fairs are not wise vs Snake so that point you made about them is invalid as I already established that Marth has to play a ground game vs Snake. If Snake abuses Snake dashing Marth can use any attack to knock Snake out of the U-smash part of it or he can counter. But the Snake dash itself doesn't even do much damage. It's just annoying.

The main thing that makes it 6/4 is Snake's weight and his killing power. But Marth does a whole lot better vs Snake then the majority of the cast. Snake is juggle bait vs Marth and it's easy to spike him or harrass his recovery when he is close to the stage. Vs Sanke you can't just run up to him and spam Dancing Blade. You will get merked. You have to play patient and rely more on d-tilt and know when to punish.

And I'm starting to agree on the Marth vs Sheik match-up.

im sorry for questioning your tourney record. i don't know if you know but we have met before and i know your an established player. i just dont agree with your opinion on the match up and it frustrated me.

Again the point about down tilt may be true but i find it almost impossible to play a ground game with snake. You seemed to brush snake dashing off like it isnt one of the main methods of control snakes use. snake dashing not only lobs you into the position in the air that snakes thrive off but also makes it impossible for you to use any of the few attacks you outrange or prioritize him with.

The other reason a ground game is hard to play is because snake doesnt have to approach you. for a while i was assuming that snake had bad stages and then i realized his 2 worst stages are counter picks only. i believe those stages are rainbow cruise and Brinstar. On ever other stage snake can camp the hell outta of you with granades c4 and nikita. this makes approaching cut down to nearly only short hopped arials or a quick dancing blade which is like a cat tryna scratch an over-weight elephant with a flying recovery lol.

im not saying this match up is impossible but i think with the exception of snakes gimpable recovery marth has very few things he can do against snake. therefore the match up should be 7-3.

now aside from snake there were a few other character match ups that i disagree with.
Bowser - 6:4 Marth
Captain Falcon - 7:3 Marth
Charizard - 6:4 Marth
Diddy Kong - 6:4 Marth
Donkey Kong - 6:4 Marth
Falco - 5:5 Even
Fox - 5:5 Even
Game & Watch - 6:4 Marth
Ganondorf - 8:2 Marth
Ice Climbers - 6:4 Marth
Ike - 6:4 Marth
Ivysaur - 7:3 Marth
Jigglypuff - 7:3 Marth
King Dedede- 5:5 Even
Kirby- 7:3 Marth
Link- 6:4 Marth
Lucario - 6:4 Marth
Lucas - 7:3 Marth
Luigi - 6:4 Marth
Mario - 7:3 Marth
Marth - 5:5 Mirror Match
Meta Knight- 5:5 Even
Ness - 8:2 Marth
Peach - 7:3 Marth
Pikachu - 6:4 Marth
Pikman & Olimar - 5:5 Even
Pit - 6:4 Marth
R.O.B. - 5:5 Even
Samus - 6:4 Marth
Sheik - 5:5 Even
Snake - 6:4 Snake
Sonic - 7:3 Marth
Squirtle - 7:3 Marth
Toon Link - 5:5 Even
Wario - 6:4 Marth
Wolf- 6:4 Marth
Yoshi - 7:3 Marth
Zelda - 6:4 Marth
Zero Suit Samus - 6:4 Marth

the match ups i have bolded i believe are only slightly wrong and the match up i bolded and underlined i believe is off by 2 points. ill briefly say my opinion and you tell me if i am wrong or should explain myself further.

DK: DK v marth cannot be marths advantage for a few reasons. DK's bair and ftilt which are his best approaching moves out range marth. Marth has a hard time playing DK on the ground as well due to ground pound and DK's up tilt. maybe its because im playing some of the best DK's in the US but i find it very hard do much against DK. DK also Kills marth
very early and his recovery is hard to spike, due to the hits and marths awkward dair. 6-4 DK

Fox: fox actually has a hard time against marth. fairs completely outspace his new terrible approach game. his laser spamming has been incredibly nerfed so doing that would be risky for him. Marth has infinites on him on the stages with walls and marth can edge gaurd him almost as well as he did in melee. 6-4 marth

De3: can spam and outspace marth. has ******** edgeguards and gimps on everyone in the game. playing him on the ground is dangerous because misspacing once can result in receiving 20 damage. Marth usually can't be chain grabbed by De3 if the marth times a sidestep well but according to jman and m2k if you use X to grab instead its easier for De3 to grab and it comes out faster making it inescapable by marth. 6-4 De3

ivysaur: he can get gimped by almost everyone in the game but he also has a good projectile and a neutral B that can rack up 15 damage per time it hits you depending on how good your DI is. ivy has good kill moves and is pretty mobile on the ground. i think this match up is 6-4 instead of 7-3 for marth.

Kirby: kirby can combo and get in little hits in between marths moves. kirbys spike works wonders and can gimp virtually anyone in the game. DB ***** him but he can still hold his own if played smart. not to mention kirby can kill much better with hammer and shield dropped fsmash. 6-4 marth

Lucario: Lucario can spam and gimp marth off the edge. lucario's aura has either just as much spacing as marths or slightly less to the battle is often anyones game. DB is risky for approaching with because lucario's dodge is fast and long. better players will often shield the first 2 hits but even when i predict the roll afterwards they just roll again and i can't punish them. 5-5 even.

luigi: he combos well and his recovery is ********. Luigi can recover from just about anywhere in the game. he is gimpable however not most of the time because they will save their jump with the tornado and it has alot of priority. luigi's bair has good range and his tornado can approach the DB and have no lag after the DB stops him. Luigi can also kill early with Fsmashes and shield dropped upsmashes. 5-5 even

Yoshi: maybe is because i played a really good yoshi but this match up is not that much in marths favor. yoshi can spam eggs and force marth to approach and safetly roll away. yoshi also gets under marth well with his dash attack. Yoshi can also somewhat combo marth and can space up smashes and fsmashes that rival marths ground moves or aerial moves. 6-4 marth

and last but definitely not least

Zamus: Zero suit is beast. she is very fast and has so many ways to punish any mistakes marth makes. under him she fuucks him up with her up b and up smash. on the ground she will mix up her charge B dash attacks and up tilts. Zamus has nearly no lag if used correctly. i found it very hard to know when i could punish her. DB has really good spacing and works well but if you make a mistake and use it too early you may get hit with a charge B. this match up is at least 5-5 even or 6-4 zamus i need to play it a little more to find out.

Now as for my tourney experience. this is just a new account. i go to weeklies every week in nyc. i dont usually place well but i mean the nyc smash scene is pretty impressive. i would say i could beat most new people there but the veterans can all beat me consistantly.
ive only recently picked up marth and have been playing him non-stop in the month and a half i decided to main him. our conversation before is actually what made me choose him when you proved to me that he is high tier.

again sorry for questioning your tourney records, ive just heard little about you in the nj scene. right now the most popular are montage so i may have just not looked deep enough.

 

[alchfilosofer]

Benjamin Linus: I just took 5th at a PA tourney two weeks back and I recently took 3rd at an NJ tourney. I don't like to bring up my tourney results, but you challenged me so there it is.

You question my tourney experience? What have you done in tournies? This is why I don't like to bring up that aspect in debates. I feel like if your points are valid then you can debate freely regardless of what your tournament record is. But if you want to play it that way, you need to make sure your tournament record holds up too. Otherwise you really shouldn't bring it up.

Choose your words carefully next time. The way you worded your post honestly made me quite angry and I'm resisting the urge to flame the hell out of you.

Snake and Marth have pretty equal range actually. Marth's d-tilt outranges all of Snakes moves except the second hit of the f-tilt. Other then that all their ground moves are virtually equal in range. Dancing Blade is safe if you know what you are doing. If they shield the first hit then you need to stop doing the attack. If they tend to roll after they block then Marth can roll away to avoid retaliation.

If people are using attacks with SA on them to stuff your DB then you are getting far too predictable and just spamming it all day. Mix-up your approach and don't get predictable.

I said in my original analysis that fairs are not wise vs Snake so that point you made about them is invalid as I already established that Marth has to play a ground game vs Snake. If Snake abuses Snake dashing Marth can use any attack to knock Snake out of the U-smash part of it or he can counter. But the Snake dash itself doesn't even do much damage. It's just annoying.

The main thing that makes it 6/4 is Snake's weight and his killing power. But Marth does a whole lot better vs Snake then the majority of the cast. Snake is juggle bait vs Marth and it's easy to spike him or harrass his recovery when he is close to the stage. Vs Sanke you can't just run up to him and spam Dancing Blade. You will get merked. You have to play patient and rely more on d-tilt and know when to punish.

And I'm starting to agree on the Marth vs Sheik match-up.

You forget the usefulness of shield breaker (pas grenades, and snake loves to shield), counter (by obius reasons) and dolphin slash (to C-C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER his multiple hit attacks). Also marth should almost NEVER to get close in the air, he should stay on ground and try to take snake to the air, were marth dominates snake.

....

Again the point about down tilt may be true but i find it almost impossible to play a ground game with snake. You seemed to brush snake dashing off like it isnt one of the main methods of control snakes use. snake dashing not only lobs you into the position in the air that snakes thrive off but also makes it impossible for you to use any of the few attacks you outrange or prioritize him with.
Man, just shield dash him, is the most safe way to get close to snake, and what part of counter don't you get? also if cannot do much you can always airdoge.... On ever other stage snake can camp the hell outta of you with granades c4 and nikita. this makes approaching cut down to nearly only short hopped arials or a quick dancing blade which is like a cat tryna scratch an over-weight elephant with a flying recovery lol.
Marth is the second best approacher in smash (next to MK), and learn to shield dash, not to mention marth can do some good grab games against snake (whch tends to shield. marth can cahin F trows at low %, and pumel grab him to shield/dancing_balde/counter/dolhpin_slash = useful)
im not saying this match up is impossible but i think with the exception of snakes gimpable recovery marth has very few things he can do against snake. therefore the match up should be 7-3.
Indeed, marth main force against Snake is gimp, but juggle is useful and d-tilts tend to chain
.............
DK: DK v marth cannot be marths advantage for a few reasons. DK's bair and ftilt which are his best approaching moves out range marth. Marth has a hard time playing DK on the ground as well due to ground pound and DK's up tilt. maybe its because im playing some of the best DK's in the US but i find it very hard do much against DK. DK also Kills marth
very early and his recovery is hard to spike, due to the hits and marths awkward dair. 6-4 DK
Those DK bair and ftilt are predictables and easy to shield or counter, not to mention if you hit whit the back part of marth's dair, DK upb is quite easy to spike

ivysaur: he can get gimped by almost everyone in the game but he also has a good projectile and a neutral B that can rack up 15 damage per time it hits you depending on how good your DI is. ivy has good kill moves and is pretty mobile on the ground. i think this match up is 6-4 instead of 7-3 for marth.
Neutral B fails at hit and the leaf can be easily doged whit jumps, not to mention marth can gimp SO easily ivisaur

Kirby: kirby can combo and get in little hits in between marths moves. kirbys spike works wonders and can gimp virtually anyone in the game. DB ***** him but he can still hold his own if played smart. not to mention kirby can kill much better with hammer and shield dropped fsmash. 6-4 marth
Are you kidding me? do you use other move than dansing blade, come on counter owns, not to mention marth out-range kirbi by far and can kill kirby incredibly early....

luigi: he combos well and his recovery is ********. Luigi can recover from just about anywhere in the game. he is gimpable however not most of the time because they will save their jump with the tornado and it has alot of priority. luigi's bair has good range and his tornado can approach the DB and have no lag after the DB stops him. Luigi can also kill early with Fsmashes and shield dropped upsmashes. 5-5 even
The tornato can be spiked so easily, and the green misile can be countered so easily (coming from a 2con weege mainer)
Yoshi: maybe is because i played a really good yoshi but this match up is not that much in marths favor. yoshi can spam eggs and force marth to approach and safetly roll away. yoshi also gets under marth well with his dash attack. Yoshi can also somewhat combo marth and can space up smashes and fsmashes that rival marths ground moves or aerial moves. 6-4 marth
Yoshi, man do you ever use something else than aerials and dancing blade? shield? tilts?
....
.

 

[∫unk]

Choose your words carefully next time. The way you worded your post honestly made me quite angry and I'm resisting the urge to flame the hell out of you.

Relax dude.

I generally respect your posts but I see you post this sort of message once in a while and it makes me question if you're really a 12 year old that can post intelligently.

 

[Emblem Lord]

I think you grossly underestimate Marth just as you did when you first posted in the tier list discussion thread. You live in NJ correct? Why not come to some NJ tournies instead of the NY weeklies? I know that NY doesn't think much of Marth anyway.

DK: This could be even, but most DK players don't think it's DK's advantage at all. And neither do I. Also you have to remember that the DK you are playing is BUM is it not. BUM IS DK. I'm not joking. He made DK what he is. You on the other hand have not tapped into Marth's full potential nor are you on Bum's level. It's not fair of you to say that DK beats Marth just because you are losing to the man that made DK and who is also a much better player.

Fox: Agreed. I'll probably change it.

Dedede: I have actually taken out the second best Dedede in tourney with my Marth recently. I think it's even because once Marth gets in he can pressure Dedede and outspace his grab. Also Waddle Dees are pretty easy to contend with. Marth can also really harrass Dedede's recovery.

Ivysaur: She is just bad, plain and simple. Her projectile is a joke. Shield it or jab it. Neutral b is one of the few good things about he, but get her off the side and she is done. Marth just runs through her IMO.

Kirby: I could see it as 6/4, but Marth outranges and outspeeds him. Plus he is light. 7/3 seems good to me.

Lucario: There was a huge debate about this and I suspect the debate will never end. Marth and Lucario match up really well. It's a close fight. Points can be made for it to be even or slight advantage for either side. I think there is enough evidence to give slight edge to Marth. Lucario does not outrange Marth other then f-smash. If Lucario or nayone spot dodges Dancing Blade then they eat the rest of the hits plain and simple.

Luigi: This is Marth's advantage no question. Marth has more speed, more range, better options, better gimping. Luigi has to contend with all that and try to get inside. This goes to Marth.

Yoshi: All Yoshi has in this match is eggs. That's it. That's his only real advantage. Also You can footstool yoshi when he jumps. It screws him since he has no true up b recovery. It could be 6/4, but right now I really think it's 7/3 and I have played the best Yoshi in NJ.

Zamus: The main thing about ehr is that she is weak and isn't too great at killing. Marth can pressure her pretty well and pressure her well off the stage. It's not some huge advantage, but the ZSS boards agree that it's Marths advantage however slight.

As for Snake, throw his nades back at him and just play patiently. You think playing Snake vs Marth is tough? Try it with another lesser character.

It's ****ing impossible.

Also feel free to hit me up on AIM if you want to talk. I feel like you are just blindly rushing people when you play Marth from what I have read in your post. We can talk about w/e. Match-ups, strats, even set-up some online games.

Junkinthetrunk: You don't insult me with posts like that. Sometimes you think I'm a 12 year old?

Dude, just stop right there. It's uncalled for. And I honestly did feel like he was being a little rude to me which is why I said what I did and we worked it out.

There was no need for you to say something like that.

 

[∫unk]

1) I'm not trying to insult you, and assuming I am isn't helping your cause. How old are you anyways.
2) It's not a BFD. You take **** way too seriously.

 

[Steel]

This is serious business.

 

[Emblem Lord]

I'm 20, but who cares about that.

You flat out insulted me, which is something I haven't done to you and it was uncalled for.

 

[Snakeee]

Zamus: Zero suit is beast. she is very fast and has so many ways to punish any mistakes marth makes. under him she fuucks him up with her up b and up smash. on the ground she will mix up her charge B dash attacks and up tilts. Zamus has nearly no lag if used correctly. i found it very hard to know when i could punish her. DB has really good spacing and works well but if you make a mistake and use it too early you may get hit with a charge B. this match up is at least 5-5 even or 6-4 zamus i need to play it a little more to find out.

Hmm, I wonder where you got all this from ^_^
I agree, and I had thought myself that it was 6-4 Marth, but I've gotten much better at the match up and my idea of it is maybe the opposite now or even like you said. The main thing is really that she can spam the hell out of him. That's why I agreed on FD in our crew battle. It's actually quite good against Marth because it lets me both spam and give me space. ZSS out ranges Marth by a lot with her forward B. You really have to close the distance on ZSS with Marth.

EDIT: Lmao EL at thinking ZSS is weak. I still want to play you on Wifi btw, can't really prove it through that but whatever.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Overall her hits are weak.

You beating me won't change her damage output bro. lol.

FD is one stage and yes on FD the match-up evens out. But I'm talking about the match-ups in of themselves.

Edit: Get in the matchmaker chat in allisbrawl right now Snakee. We can play if you want.

 

[DanGR]

In your opinion, all of the matchups are either even or advantageous for Marth? That's a bit much I think.

Edit:I see snake now. well, I'd say you're not giving Rob enough credit, but it's your thread, so w/e.

lol, you like to get straight to the point don't you?

 

[Emblem Lord]

No. Read the first page.

 

[feardragon64]

First off, let's not turn this into a flame or complaining topic. This IS a useful topic because it's actual intelligent discussion and debate. I know you guys are both saying you didn't mean to offend each other, you're avoiding flaming, etc. but best thing you can do is ignore it. Addressing it further just brings back a response, and it continues. I hate seeing intelligent people debating slowly getting angrier and angrier at each other and others.

Anyways, I obviously don't have nearly as much experience as anyone here or the skills to back up my claims, so I wouldn't expect much of a debate from me saying it, but I do think it's stretching it a little to say that Snake is the only one with an advantage over Marth. For example, R.O.B. seems to have at least a bit of an advantage over Marth. I know DanGR just said this, but by the sounds of the paragraph you wrote on R.O.B., it seems as though he has the advantage if he plays it well. He outranges with tilts and projectiles, his ultimate weakness is that he has to rely on gimps for kills, but I think if a ROB is patient, they can find the proper opening and nail a bair, dair, etc. for the kill(off stage or on). Not only that, but air dodging gimps becomes predictable and I think with ROB's ability to maneuver in the air with his up+b gives him the ability to hit Marth right out of his airdodge.

I don't know, but that's just an example. At least to me, after I read your paragraphs, I feel like occasionally you point out so many things that are advantages for the opponent or disadvantages for Marth, that it feels like maybe you're giving Marth too much credit for the match-ups in the end.

Anyways, that's my opinion for what it's worth. I don't expect much of a response since I'm probably just going to get a one line answer that will change my opinion. Anyways,, let's keep it clean guys. =]

 

[Emblem Lord]

The reason why I point out all the opponent's advantages is so you know what you are dealing with.

Anyway, I played Snakee and learned something about ZSS. Overall she is pretty safe on block. But I'll still give it to Marth since she has trouble killing. While Marth can kill her much more easily then she can kill him and he has an easier time gimping her then she does to him as well.

 

[Benjamin Linus]

yea EL snake is bascially my experience with Zss he taught me that the match up isn't as easy as i thought. i think it should be at least even because on platform stages its not much better. her Up B combos are amazing and she has more platforms to use side b on you.

also not to demean your playing but you guys played on wifi and id say that takes away about 40% of both players actual skill. if you played in person i think you would notice other things as well.

ill comment the other posts you made later i just gotta go to school. btw we should play also so you can get a feel for my marth. i know it sounds like i play rushy i dont. ill hit you up on aim.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Our connection was good. And we both acknowledged that we were getting hit by things that we wouldn't be getting hit by in person.

Hell, I'll even admit that one match I got 3 stocked. But that was on Lylat cruise and some shenanigans happened. Second stock I got hit by ZSS's forward b when I was near the ledge and got spiked by the ship. Third stock I smashed DIed to the left when I got hit by aBair and died at 70% or something like that. **** happens. Oh, well.

Anyway, I'll tell you this right now. Snakeee is probably better then you. It's not fair for someone to try to judge a match after getting rocked by a better player. That's not how it works.

Anyway, the match is close and I never EVER said it was easy even before we started debating it. I get the feeling that you think, that I'm saying Marth stomps all over her or something. He doesn't. It's really just her weaknesses that put it in Marth's favor as I said before.

Edit: Register on allisbrawl.com and then had ever to the match-making chat room. I hang out there alot.

 

[Shadow 111]

good matches on wifi today emblem lord.
so, you think marth vs meta knight is an even matchup?
i can see that.. even if either of them had some kind of advantage it'd be really slight.. because although marth can get gimped by dair .. meta knight will die at lower percentages.
also the counter can be used on all of meta's b moves
but meta knight is faster and can combo better.
so it seems like they both have enough advantages against eachother to make the matchup even.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Usually Marth would Smash DI up when hit off the stage to avoid getting gimped.

I have no idea why I was trying to recover low vs you. lol. I should know better.

You Marth's counter means MK can't abuse his B moves for once. I feel sorry for other characters, lol.

MK is lighter, but with better rushdown, and better edgeguarding. He also has better recovery.

Marth is a bit heavier, better killing power, more range, better zoning/camping. But his edgegaurding isn't as good and his smashes are more punishable.

I tendto go back and forth in my head as to how the match-up is in terms of who has advantage or if it's neutral. But I REALLY REALLY feel like this is one of the most even match-ups in the game at the highest level.

At any level but the highest it's MK's advantage though. He is easier to pick and do well with, while Marth requires alot more effort and knowledge to really bring out his full potential.

 

[Anth0ny]

I tendto go back and forth in my head as to how the match-up is in terms of who has advantage or if it's neutral. But I REALLY REALLY feel like this is one of the most even match-ups in the game at the highest level.

I completely agree. I always seem to have trouble with Meta Knights. I was able to beat two of them in a recent tournament of mine, then lost to another in the semi's. A different MK won the entire thing. Overused much?