Marth match-up thread

[Shadow 111]

Are you kidding me? Forte is the best player on earth. He owns everyone.

lmao, hopefully you're kidding...

anyway.. EL marth has adv over pit? is it close though? i don't see why it would be marths adv.. pit has projectile AND is good at close combat. .. i would tihnk at least 5/5

 

[Dark Sonic]

lmao, hopefully you're kidding...

anyway.. EL marth has adv over pit? is it close though? i don't see why it would be marths adv.. pit has projectile AND is good at close combat. .. i would tihnk at least 5/5

Pit's projectile is anoying, but in no way crippling, and Marth's close range combat just outclasses Pit's in every way. Marth aerials have more range, more power, and less lag than Pit's, and his ground game does too. Heck, Marth can even up B in the middle of Pit's side B and rapid jabs (though you don't see these much). A good Pit is really hard to edgeguard, but he still dies much quicker than Marth (lighter weight, and few kill moves makes Marth live longer). Pit even has trouble edgeguarding Marth, simply because he get's out ranged on aerial attempts, and arrows are easy to dodge.

Really, people hype projectiles in Marth's matchups too much. He seriously has almost no problem dealing with them. A sword to block physical projectiles, a good running speed to approach between projectiles, a freakin' counter! And plenty of range for when he does get close. It's really not a problem for Marth.


Now Ike on the other hand...<_<


P.S. Wifi lag is gay. I never judge a person's skill by an online match.

 

[Snakeee]

I remember it was a pretty solid connection, and my brother as a Meta main said he wasn't that impressive....I seriously thought he was just some random, but you guys are right I don't want to judge someone from wifi. That's just weird though if he's supposed to be that good.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Uhhhhhh, What Sonic Wave said.

And yeah Forte is pretty much second best MK on the EC.

Second to M2K. Yes, he is starting to use Dedede less and less and MK more and more.

 

[gallax]

Second to M2K. Yes, he is starting to use Dedede less and less and MK more and more.

that seems to be the trend over here too. most of the people i know who mained DDD, or anyone else, has either switched over to snake or MK or else they get *****.

 

[Jibbles]

IMO The matchup ratio thingy should be in the 50:50s instead of 5:5s. This is because people seem to think that 6:4 isn't "close enough".

So, if that's the case, it'd be

Bowser - 60:40 Marth
Captain Falcon - 75:25 Marth
Charizard - 60:40 Marth
Diddy Kong - 60:40 Marth
Donkey Kong - 55:45 Marth
Falco - 50:50 Even
Fox - 60:40 Marth
Game & Watch - 60:40 Marth
Ganondorf - 80:20 Marth
Ice Climbers - 60:40 Marth
Ike - 65:35 Marth
Ivysaur - 70:30 Marth
Jigglypuff - 70:30 Marth
King Dedede- 50:50 Even
Kirby- 60:40 Marth
Link- 60:40 Marth
Lucario - 55:45 Marth
Lucas - 75:25 Marth
Luigi - 60:40 Marth
Mario - 70:30 Marth
Marth - 50:50 Mirror Match
Meta Knight- 50:50 Even
Ness - 80:20 Marth
Peach - 65:35 Marth
Pikachu - 60:40 Marth
Pikman & Olimar - 50:50 Even
Pit - 55:45 Marth
R.O.B. - 50:50 Even
Samus - 60:40 Marth
Sheik - 60:40 Marth
Snake - 60:40 Snake
Sonic - 70:30 Marth
Squirtle - 70:30 Marth
Toon Link - 50:50 Even
Wario - 60:40 Marth
Wolf- 55:45 Marth
Yoshi - 65:35 Marth
Zelda - 60:40 Marth
Zero Suit Samus - 55:45 Marth

Yeah I must admit it might be messy at first but it just might lessen complaints of certain match ups.

Just my two cents

 

[Emblem Lord]

Yeah, I'll probably change it to that.

 

[Benjamin Linus]

... that guy basically made the changes that i've basically been debating over. except he made a new category which is 55:45... which basically means EVEN.

its ok though. EL come to a nyc weekly one day or help me get someone to give me a ride so that i can play you in person some day.

 

[Linguini]

Could I get some advice vs. d3? I use marth vs him and i dont know what to do.

 

[TKD+ITA+Mar=]

Hit him with your sword.

Sorry I couldn't resist

If he is shield happy use shield-breaker. When he is recovering be sure to punish his recovery/up-b. D3 can be easily juggled, especially on battlefield; if he is at low damage you can chase him around the stage with non-tippered fairs. I think he can be fthrow -> fsmash/dancing blade. Oh and also be sure to use Dancing Blade a lot. If the tries to CG you, then use dolphin slash (you can really punish D3 with this move).

(Hope that helped at least a little.)

 

[Shadow 111]

^^^^^

you can up b out of chain grab if it's done perfectly? O_o
i didn't think so...

 

[Emblem Lord]

>_>

You really like my thread don't you bro?

lol.

Anyway, no you can't up b out of the CG when done perfectly. Anyway, beating Dedede is all about smart aggression and spacing. You want to space well to avoid his grabs. You can SH over his f-tilt and then use Fair to approach and apply pressure. Space it so you don't get grabbed. You want to force a roll so you can get an easy Dancing Blade. If he sits in his shield then just use Shieldbreaker or grab. Check out the first post for more tips. But your basic game plan is to be smart and patient.

 

[Shadow 111]

haha, i'm starting to use marth more now is why i've been trolling this thread haha.
about the CG.. i thought so lol.

so marth vs falco is even? i think i may use him in that matchup.
how do you usually deal with laser spam.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Which lasers?

There are different kinds. I need you to get specific.

 

[Shadow 111]

falco's sh laser spam.. is what i meant.

 

[Steel]

haha, i'm starting to use marth more now is why i've been trolling this thread haha.
about the CG.. i thought so lol.

so marth vs falco is even? i think i may use him in that matchup.
how do you usually deal with laser spam.

Rolling, jumping, shielding while walking. When you get close though i tend to eat a few lasers because i can usually dish out more damage than he just did to me. His lag time after a grounded laser is big enough for you to get a dancing blade in.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Depending on the height of the SHL you can dash under them since Marth gets low to the ground when he runs. You can also dash attack under them.

Of course you have the old stand bys of rolling, jumping, and run into shield or walk into shield. You could also counter them when you are close enough. Or SH fair out of shield, or up b out of shield.

 

[Shadow 111]

alright, good to know.
also.. can you up b out of falco's CG? or is it the same as dedede's?

 

[Steel]

alright, good to know.
also.. can you up b out of falco's CG? or is it the same as dedede's?

All of the falco's i've played I've been able to up b out of it.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Yeah, but a smart Falco will just do dash attack to u-smash after the d-throw.

 

[C@sH Mooney]

Could I get some advice vs. d3? I use marth vs him and i dont know what to do.

when your double fairing, mix it up and instead of using the 2nd fair use a sheild breaker.

 

[TKD+ITA+Mar=]

Oh you can't up-b out of D3's grab if done perfectly? Well I learned something new today.

 

[Linguini]

>_>

You really like my thread don't you bro?

lol.

Anyway, no you can't up b out of the CG when done perfectly. Anyway, beating Dedede is all about smart aggression and spacing. You want to space well to avoid his grabs. You can SH over his f-tilt and then use Fair to approach and apply pressure. Space it so you don't get grabbed. You want to force a roll so you can get an easy Dancing Blade. If he sits in his shield then just use Shieldbreaker or grab. Check out the first post for more tips. But your basic game plan is to be smart and patient.

nah bro, im just trying to win some dolla and dont want to use dk and get infinited rofl

 

[Emblem Lord]

No no. lol.

I was talking to shadow.

 

[Steel]

Bump.

EL - think we can add the grab release to some of these match ups? This could tilt some of them even more in our favor.

 

[Kizzu-kun]

Just saying, Marth versus Toon Link isn't a even match.
Marth have advantage here.

 

[VietGeek]

Just saying, Marth versus Toon Link isn't a even match.
Marth have advantage here.

Lol, I never noticed that EL put it as even. xD

But yes, Marth has the advantage. Toon Link has no IASA moves like Dtilt to poke and bait opponents besides projectiles. His safest moves on block sans projectiles are literally his AAA jab and Zair due to its range [compared to the rest of his moves].

Marth can easily kill/block all of Toon Link's projectiles, a staple of his game even on the offense. His projectiles are very good, but because they're not the fastest things out there, they are very easy to shield. Only the bomb should really be an issue here (shielded bombs bounce off and TL can send another and capture the first one that bounced off, and can play an annoying pressure game with bombs since they can set-up for some 0-70% juggles) but the Links have always had ample support from their bomb game in Smash.

Once you get into range for tippers, Toon Links will indeed try to pressure you out with Nairs, Bairs, bombs, Boomerangs, grabs, tilts, jab, Zair, anything they can do to stop you, because they are in constant disadvantage to Marth as long as it's close combat.

In the air, Toon Link is even with Marth has he can juggle much more easily than Marth can, and his Uair is a lingering hitbox that you can chase a descending Marth with. If you stay mostly on the ground though, Toon Link can't really compete with you.

Toon Link's hit and run game can't compare against Marth when he has stuff like DB and Dtilt that Toon Link has no choice but to get out of before he can punish (he has Up+B if TL's in a crunch, but like I said, it's still a hit and run game, Up+B gives TL some breathing space and emphasizes hit and run).

If Toon Link goes for the offensive, Marth still has the advantage because Marth has a mad keep away game too. Dtilt, retreating Fairs, retreating Bairs make it so that even more aggro Toon Links usually have to alternate to a more defensive style most of the time. Also, if it's rushdown versus rushdown, it's pretty much Marth that pulls out as the winner for reasons I stated before.

6:4 Marth's advantage. The way you wrote the analysis for Toon Link made it seem kinda like that too Emblem Lord. =P

Is everything I said pretty solid Kizzu? You played Toon Link longer than I have, and you probably have more experience versus Marth with him too. I've only played against Marth with Toon Link a few times, so I'm not too sure my point is sound.

 

[Ulevo]

Bump.

EL - think we can add the grab release to some of these match ups? This could tilt some of them even more in our favor.

Beat me to it. I think it may end up giving Marth the advantage versus Meta Knight.

 

[Sompurplequy700]

sorry
wat is DI and wat are tilts

 

[En.Ee.Oh]

Beat me to it. I think it may end up giving Marth the advantage versus Meta Knight.

Lol, no? The match is much more complicated then simply grabbing metaknight and doing an f-air. Play a good metaknight, he won't let you breath

 

[Emblem Lord]

Marth can do more then fair, but I agree. It's just another tool in Marth's arsenal. And it works best on only two stages.

But who knows? Maybe it will tip the scales in his favor. Only time will tell. And further testing of course.

 

[Retroking2000]

>__> metaknight is ghayyyy . also most of marths attacks blind spots MK because he is soo **** small

 

[Cam3ron]

Just saying, Marth versus Toon Link isn't a even match.
Marth have advantage here.

Wow i thought TL has the advantage cuz of his projectiles

 

[YagamiLight]

I was always under the impression the Falco has some slight advantage against Marth, mainly due to the matchup thread. Doesn't a really campy Falco has some sort of advantage against projectileless Marth?

 

[Emblem Lord]

What match-up thread are you referring to? I don't think that Falco has advantage on Marth at all. I think it's one of the most even match-ups in the game.

 

[Ciel~Image]

sorry
wat is DI and wat are tilts

DI is directional influence. You hold the control stick a certain way and it makes the character move that way. It's used for avoiding attacks and stuff. Tilts are the moves you do when you tilt the control stick in a direction and press A.

By the way, I was wondering what "Smash DI" is. The way people use the term it seems like it's something more significantly different from regular DI than just smashing on the control stick hard to DI.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Smash DI is just DIing the instant you are hit with an attack.

DI doesn't require you to do that. You can start DIing after you get hit you just have to press and hold a direction.

 

[Jibbles]

What match-up thread are you referring to? I don't think that Falco has advantage on Marth at all. I think it's one of the most even match-ups in the game.

I think Yagami meant this:

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=172023

It has Falco as 6:4 vs Marth.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Oh. I saw that already. It doesn't get too in-depth. But anyway, I disagree and I think it's even.

 

[Kizzu-kun]

Is everything I said pretty solid Kizzu? You played Toon Link longer than I have, and you probably have more experience versus Marth with him too. I've only played against Marth with Toon Link a few times, so I'm not too sure my point is sound.

Well there is more thing to talk about, but this already proved the point.

Oh. I saw that already. It doesn't get too in-depth. But anyway, I disagree and I think it's even.

Yes too little information to base about this match, anyway I even think that that match is very slight in Marth's favor. (5.5 : 4.5)