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Landing Penalty (RCO Lag)

Pikabunz

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Here's the original blog by Nothing.: http://allisbrawl.com/blogpost.aspx?id=37415
Everything I quote comes from that blog.

======== landing penalty ========
it occurs when a certain character uses a specific B move, some being situational.
when a character gets this "landing penalty", the next time the character lands on the ground
the character gets a huge after lag and can not move.
this makes it dangerous for some characters because if you do not becareful
where and when you get this lag, you would get punished by your opponent very hard.


======== when landing penalty occurs, stays, and goes away ========
when your character lands on the ground normally without doing
anything (besides airdodge) , your character gets the landing penalty lag.
the amount of lag is depended on the characters B move and how fast they were falling.
marth is a really good example; he gets about half a second of lag if you fast fall with the up B penalty.

the following does NOT count as landing, and thus the penalty would stay on your character.
-landing while using a B move (a B move that does not have landing lag)
-hitting the ground (missing a tech)
-teching when you hit the ground
-tripping
-feet touching the ground while getting grabbed (even if you get grabbed in the air)
-grounded grab release
-grabbing the ledge

the following are when landing lag goes away.
-when you land normally or from a freefall animation
-when you land while doing an arial attack
-when you get KO'd

List of moves that give you the lag.

*The first number is the amount of frames of lag you get for a soft landing and the second number is the lag for a heavy landing.

:mario2:
UpB - 15F/30F

:luigi2:
UpB - 15F/30F

:peach:
UpB - 15F/30F

:bowser2:
UpB - 2F/10F

:dk2:
UpB - 2F/7F

:ganondorf:
UpB - 15F/30F
SideB - 15F/20F

:kirby2:
SideB - 15F/25F
DownB - 15F/25F

:fox:
UpB - 15F/19F
SideB - 15F/25F

:falco:
UpB - 15F/19F
SideB - 15F/20F

:wolf:
UpB - 15F/36F
SideB - 15F/25F

:falcon:
UpB - 15F/30F
SideB - 15F/20F

:pikachu2:
UpB - 15F/24F

:squirtle:
UpB - 15F/30F

:charizard:
UpB - 15F/30F

:lucario:
UpB (ledge snap) - 15F/5F
UpB (free fall) - 15F/30F

:marth:
UpB - 15F/35F


-situational
peach - after she closes her umbrella once with upB (it does not go away if you reopen it)
bowser - only when you're in the air with upB (going off stage with grounded counts)
dk - only when upB was used in the air (going off stage with grounded won't get penalty)
kirby - after turning back from a stone from a downB
ganon - only when you're in the air with sideB (going off stage with grounded counts)
fox - after saying "fire" with upB
falco - after saying "fire" with upB
falcon - only when sideB was used in the air (going off stage with grounded won't get penalty)
pikachu - after getting the full distance of the first upB
lucario - during the freefall animation of up B (for heavy lag)
Canceling the penalty with an aerial.
The blog says using an aerial as you land overrides the penalty which isn't completely true. You still get extra lag added to your aerial's landing lag. The amount of lag that gets added is about 35%-40% of the aerial's original landing lag. Since this a percentage increase, you really want to use your least laggiest move when you land for the safest and quickest landing.

Comparison of aerial landing lag to aerial landing lag with the penalty.

Pikachu
Nair 25F>34F
Fair 15F>21F
Bair 30F>41F
Uair 24F>33F
Dair 40F>55F

Pika's fair is the safest move as it is by far his fastest move and only adding 6 frames with the penalty. Pika's Dair with the penalty adds a massive 15 frames of lag adding up to almost a full second of lag when he lands with it. That's enough time for Ike/DDD to hit him with an fsmash. So be careful with what you land with. For some characters, sometimes it's best to just land with a soft landing instead of an aerial since it's always 15 frames.


Taking advantage of your opponents landing penalty
This is simple, all you need to do is use an attack with small knock back and that forces a landing then use whatever attack you like. The landing you get from being attacked is always heavy. Some examples of these attacks are jabs or DDD's dthrow. Here are some combos that work:
G&W - Jab > Any smash/Judgment
DDD - Dthrow > Fsmash (Ganon and Wolf only)
DDD - Dthrow > Dash attack
Luigi - Jab > UpB
Fox - Fthrow > Usmash (low percents)
Pikachu - Fthrow > Fsmash

These won't work on all characters like DDD's dthrow on light characters since it causes them to get knocked down to the floor.
 

Poltergust

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Ah, I've heard of this before. I believe that it was referenced as BSL, because it's like lag that shouldn't happen. =P

Still, I didn't know that even while doing an aerial you still get some added frames of lag. Is there any way to avoid it?


:069:
 

smashkng

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I believe it's a glitch, not a penalty pretended by Sakurai. He forgot to remove the landing lag when grabbing ledges. Because it shouldn't happen if you aren't helpless. It still doesn't affect everyone. I didn't feel longer landing lag with DK (probably only some frames more).
 

Poltergust

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Actually, if I remember correctly, the animations for landing in free-fall and landing with the penalty are different. So I guess it is intentional. =/

:069:
 

OmegaXF

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If you Ff an Airdodge you receive landing lag. If you Airdogde onto the stage you won't receive lag for that landing.
 

Poltergust

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How would it be unintentional if there are animations specifically for the landing penalty?

:069:
 

Kitamerby

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15 frames of landing lag?

Are you sure it's that long on average? 15 frames is quite a bit...

Also, Lucario gets less lag with a "heavy" landing, which I'm guessing is a fastfall/non short hop landing? O,o
 

B!squick

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Already know of this from Browsing the Ganon board. Had no idea Bowser got it too. O.o Also didn't know you got it from going offstage with grounded UpB.
 

Kewkky

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The only way to cancel penalties ys by using an attack right before you hit the floor, preferably those who autocancel... Like Kirby, he uses his nair to cancel all lag.

And Kirby's upB also gives BSL, if you grab the ledge with it then ledgehop.
 

The Phazon Assassin

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Is there a vid of this somewhere? I've never seen or really even heard of this, and I can't exactly picture what it looks like.
 

Kewkky

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Yep, it's pretty old.

TUSM, if you wanna see it for yourself, choose Kirby and go to training mode. Jump high and land, and notice you have no landing lag whatsoever... Now, jump high, use sideB once anywhere at all, then land.

That's BSL, like some people call it... And it's not just Kirby who does it, but since he's one of my mains, I know him way better than others so I used him as an example.
 

TP

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This is a glitch, not intentional. Also, there is a lot more to Ganon's RCO lag than this thread let's on. If Ganon does an aerial choke without RCO lag, he gets 16 frames of landing lag. If he does an aerial choke while already carrying aerial choke RCO lag, it only has 8 frames of landing lag for no reason and it cancels the RCO. O_O

:034:
 

Pikabunz

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The only way to cancel penalties ys by using an attack right before you hit the floor, preferably those who autocancel... Like Kirby, he uses his nair to cancel all lag.

And Kirby's upB also gives BSL, if you grab the ledge with it then ledgehop.
Are you sure about Kirby's upb getting the lag? I can't get it to work.
 

smashkng

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Can this allow a Snake forward smash out of jump release? Fox, Falco, Wolf, Ganon and Falcon are forced to reach the ground when they escape grabs.
 

altairian

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Kirby's upb definitely doesn't get the lag

smashking: most likely. getting a grab on them while they having the landing penalty would be the tricky part.
 

Pikabunz

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Nope it doesn't work. Fsmash is just too slow (41 frames) and they land too far away from Snake. You can ftilt or utilt though and maybe some aerials.
 

Kewkky

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Hmm, I could've sworn Kirby's upB ledge-cancelled gave him some landing lag... Maybe I did something else and didn't notice, ah well.
 

Pikabunz

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This is a glitch, not intentional. Also, there is a lot more to Ganon's RCO lag than this thread let's on. If Ganon does an aerial choke without RCO lag, he gets 16 frames of landing lag. If he does an aerial choke while already carrying aerial choke RCO lag, it only has 8 frames of landing lag for no reason and it cancels the RCO. O_O

:034:
I tested this and you were right about his side b having less landing lag with the RCO, but I got different numbers.

SideB lag with no RCO - 30F
SideB lag with SideB RCO - 20F
SideB lag with UpB RCO - 30F
 

Denzi

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Now Falcos don't seem to really have a problem with this, so I'm curious: Does a Silent Laser cancel out the penalty lag? Because it usually cancels all landing lag.
 

smashkng

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But still interesting. Snake being able to up tilt out of a grab release against a character who hasn't used the landing lag glitch yet and forced to reach the ground is really scary. This means Squirtle and Wario are not the only characters susceptible to a guaranteed set up for up tilt out of an air release.

But still jabs against a such character with the glitch can also guarantee an up tilt.
 

rolrctermaniac

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Now Falcos don't seem to really have a problem with this, so I'm curious: Does a Silent Laser cancel out the penalty lag? Because it usually cancels all landing lag.
annoyingly no it doesn't, i was really hoping that it would though ledgehopped double lasers offer some good protection from the lag if the opponent is at a mid the far range
 

Denzi

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annoyingly no it doesn't, i was really hoping that it would though ledgehopped double lasers offer some good protection from the lag if the opponent is at a mid the far range
And ledgehopped Nair gets rid of a lot of it, so we're pretty well off.
 

B.A.M.

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Sorry to necrosis but I was wondering the most effect method to punish characters like Marth and falco for RCO lag.
 

Flayl

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Really interesting. Bowser's jab pops people up in the air, so I assume it would work to punish RCO lag too?

edit: yep it works. Bowser gets a guaranteed FSmash.
 

GimR

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This was a really good read. I had no idea that there were hard and soft penalty landings
 
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