One tourney set doesn't hold much water to all the MM's they had at RoM2 imo. Mango goes puff because it's his best chance of winning against Hbox. It also really looked to me like he was trying with Fox.
The commentators said mango was laughing and joking when he was playing fox.
Also, i know nothing about their MMs from RoM2. How much money were they for? Amount of games? For all we know mango didnt give a **** because they didn't matter very much and he is cocky and doesn't care if he loses $30 to hbox because he knows he will 1) win a few sets if there are multiples and 2) win many other MMs that day and 3) win the tournament
tl;dr tournament set >>>>> random MMs
I agree with you saying that player skill matters: it most certainly does.
There are those that would argue that the matchups HAVE improved, there are many things puff can do against the top tier cast that was not previously known.
Care to tell me what these things are?
And how was what Ken did any different then what Mango/Hbox are now doing today? Partly/mostly because of him and his playstyle that many others picked up on, marth developed into a top tier character (M2K helped as well).
Marth didn't "develop" into a top tier character because of Ken. Marth has been a top tier character since the first tier list and at his lowest was a high tier character when top tier was Fox/Falco only.
Because of Mango and his playstyle and other who will inevitably will pick up on, Puff will probably move up as well, and now puff is being developed further by Hbox, into a Bair-spamming and resting machine.
You mean the stuff king was doing in 06?
Hbox and Mango are only more precise. Yeah, what they do is incredible and very over powering, but its not really stuff that is exclusive to puff. Puff can make a wall of bairs that is nearly impossible to get around, but every character in high and top tier have equivalent methods of getting to the same goal (gain stage control, keep it, take a stock).
This is somewhat debatable, especially that last one lol.
Debatable in the sense that a lot of people think puff is higher, regardless of factual evidence.
Not true, there are several other Puff mains that I have watched and observed for years, The King, Darc, etc.
King and Darc have done as expected of their character based on the tier placing. They have done about as well as falcon mains and peach mains and IC mains, overall.
To copy pasta your argument for any of those characters, all i'd need to do is convince mango to win a tournament with that character and then BAM i have a "solid argument" for why they should be top tier.
The difference here is that jigglypuff has far more arial maneuverability then any other character.
actually that is her weakness, because marth covers the air approach with an impassable sword. The idea is actually to approach on the ground with your shield. Puff can't beat marth's sword with her aerial priority and range because marth has more aerial priority and more range.
It is easier for her to do the same tricks on marth than any other character because of her arial agility, something that most other characters don't have. Not only that, but she can punish better then most of the rest of the cast.
Again, the match-up is about ground mobility and stage control, not air priorty and safety.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CSjPMnuZi4
Watch that and tell me what happen every time mango tries to commit at m2k from the air and notice what happens every time he starts shield camping and approaching from the ground.
also, i would much rather get fair/bair'd by puff than shined by either spacie, grabbed by falcon or shiek, or dash attacked by peach. Puff's "combos" are mostly 1 hits that link together by stage control and opponent's mistakes.
