Jigglypuff for Top Tier?

[Zatchiel]

I make it look real easy in this melee vid i mad last year, enyone wanna see? if not
stick with the jigglypuff convo.....

 

[Aves]

To me, Jiggs is definately the best in the game. If it's truly player not character, then why did Hbox beat Mango's fox? And why didn't we see Mango's fox or falco for more than one game?

 

[Zephynazo]

All i can say is that, Puff is not the best in the game.

But, puff is def better than CF, maybe also peach.

 

[ETWIST51294]

Mango said Hbox is hard to beat with Fox without warming up.

 

[Zatchiel]

For the last time, Jigglypuff IS the best, and i have no reason to change my thoughts.....

 

[Vegard]

Jiggs is top tier yes. The japanese players realized it before Smashboards.

 

[-ACE-]

Mango said Hbox is hard to beat with Fox without warming up.

Yeah and he was also "hungover" when he lost to Kage, minutes after 3 stocking Jman with Falco.

*yawn*

 

[Zatchiel]

OMG, Dont mind him Acherontic, he is just Unaccepting that Jiggs is the best in the game, and can top him anyday.....

 

[AceSox]

Jiggs is NOT top, MAYBE top of high if that. -.-

 

[SDC]

Yeah and he was also "hungover" when he lost to Kage, minutes after 3 stocking Jman with Falco.

*yawn*

I agree, let's try to avoid "this player said this, this player said that".

I don't care what Mango says when he's drunk, or what M2K whines about when he loses, I care about the fundamentals of the character, and how he/she performs at a high level against the best.

 

[Zatchiel]

This is wrong, Truly awesome Jigglypuff players dont argue with people who
Brag about their under tiered characters, there is no sense in that...

 

[SDC]

This is wrong, Truly awesome Jigglypuff players dont argue with people who
Brag about their under tiered characters, there is no sense in that...

This makes no sense whatsoever. No offense, but can you either contribute to the discussion or just...stop lol? Thanks

 

[Zatchiel]

What do you mean? No offense, but why post about Jigglypuff if your main is mewtwo?

Hmm, I still know that jigglypuff players have the potential to be top
tier, but that might not be what you think....

 

[TheManaLord]

Jiggs is NOT top, MAYBE top of high if that. -.-

Hello mr January 2010.

 

[Zatchiel]

What? Who/What is that?

 

[Archangel]

NO SHE ISNT......

if you want to straight up talk about characters, puff deserves to be directly below peach.

troll logic:
Player A wins a large tournament with Character X, therefore Character X is top tier.

I don't think anyone needs a counter example to see how flawed this logic is.

Yeah and he was also "hungover" when he lost to Kage, minutes after 3 stocking Jman with Falco.

*yawn*

you've clearly got person issues with things changing....

aside from that your missing the point of ROM2. Even though "Hungover" mango lost JIGGS STILL WON ROM2!! Not to mention out of every 10 tourney's a good Jiggs player enters she wins 9 of them...thats been the case in all of 09 and seem to look like it's gonna be that way going through 2010. I understand the if it ain't broke don't fix it logic but the 2009-present tournament results nation wide have pissed on the current tier list.

 

[TheManaLord]

His join date is January 2010... as in his opinion means next to nothing.

 

[AceSox]

Hello mr January 2010.

Hi. >_>
I'm guessing I had to actually participate on this site for 4 years just to know a thing or two about smash? I guess I should take a few pointers from you and start posting crap like this.

****s been discussed through and through since the beginning of Mango's rise. The discussion is OVER the MBR has to get off their ****ing fat lazy ***** and do something that helps the community like reflect the changes over the YEARS they've been idle.

A ****ing useless relic.


People are either A. in denial because they don't WANT puff to be the best
or B. stupid if they don't think she IS the best

and I don't care who you are I detest you as a person if you fall under either category.

 

[TheManaLord]

1. doesn't have to aproach
2. infinite recovery
3. can't be gimped
4. gimps anyone and everything and can recover always
5. punishes with a OHKO move
6. can combo into a OHKO move from ANY move and grabs
7. can't be comboed

 

[Zatchiel]

Oh, True, N00bs are so Loud!

 

[Rappster]

according to the matchup-charts, doc goes even vs puff. how many puff players actually have lots of experience in that mu?
if jiggs is good vs the top tiers, find a high/mid with a decent mu against him (doc, pika, link, falcon, yl) and play xim against puff

 

[TheManaLord]

Also, you're legit don't worry I'm just raging.

Raging because this discussion has been had since 2007 and members of this useless aging society have done nothing to realize it. The authority has all but crumbled since and done nothing of value. They let this game die and by the players it crawled back up. And by their hands again will it fall if nothings ****ing changes. Rule bias has to go. Tier list needs updating. Tournament format needs updating.

There are a plethora of things involved here and they've been widely discussed by the common member for years in futility. Now, even with facts, people deny observations and come to their own unfounded conclusions.

Why shouldn't I rage? I should get under people skins to get them the ****ing truth.

 

[Atlus8]

The metagame will develop and Jiggs will stop looking so good! Some of you have to stop complaining about Jiggs being so good and start innovating some new s#!+ to beat her!

 

[t3h Icy]

Instead of arguing opinions on tiers, help with this. It's quieted down lately and extra discussion would be very helpful.

Also, based on weighted match-ups, Jigglypuff is 5th anyway.

 

[TheManaLord]

The metagame hasn't been able to beat jiggs for three years. So **** that bull****.

And she's fifth according to that CHARTS matchups... which is collaboration of nobodies and somebodies and lots of heresay, So **** that too.

 

[Archangel]

The metagame will develop and Jiggs will stop looking so good! Some of you have to stop complaining about Jiggs being so good and start innovating some new s#!+ to beat her!

their isn't much new **** that can be done at this point. Jiggs has Melee and brawlish movements so she kinda floats around linear attacks. Basically only rageful Falcons, Unholy skillful peaches, or a great gannon(while the puff is hungover) can beat jiggs. I hate to put it like that but look at tournament results for all of 09 till now.

 

[AceSox]

The metagame hasn't been able to beat jiggs for three years. So **** that bull****.

And she's fifth according to that CHARTS matchups... which is collaboration of nobodies and somebodies and lots of heresay, So **** that too.

Her match ups are actually pretty good on the chart Icy posted...Only two other character have a slight advantage, and three are even. I'd that that's about right.

 

[Zephynazo]

lol thaManaLord is beastin this thread xD

 

[SDC]

What do you mean? No offense, but why post about Jigglypuff if your main is mewtwo?

Hmm, I still know that jigglypuff players have the potential to be top
tier, but that might not be what you think....

Oh, True, N00bs are so Loud!

You're obviously either a troll or someone who probably doesn't know what they're talking about. Responding to you beyond this is pointless.

Also, you're legit don't worry I'm just raging.

Raging because this discussion has been had since 2007 and members of this useless aging society have done nothing to realize it. The authority has all but crumbled since and done nothing of value. They let this game die and by the players it crawled back up. And by their hands again will it fall if nothings ****ing changes. Rule bias has to go. Tier list needs updating. Tournament format needs updating.

There are a plethora of things involved here and they've been widely discussed by the common member for years in futility. Now, even with facts, people deny observations and come to their own unfounded conclusions.

Why shouldn't I rage? I should get under people skins to get them the ****ing truth.

I understand your frustration, and I agree with some of your points, but could you tone it down a little bit lol? Take it from me, flaming the BR will not accomplish anything

 

[DtJ Jungle]

Oh, True, N00bs are so Loud!

pot caling the kettle black.

 

[King Siegfried]

their isn't much new **** that can be done at this point. Jiggs has Melee and brawlish movements so she kinda floats around linear attacks. Basically only rageful Falcons, Unholy skillful peaches, or a great gannon(while the puff is hungover) can beat jiggs. I hate to put it like that but look at tournament results for all of 09 till now.

I certainly hope to become one of those Unholy skillful peaches, and push the princess up to were Marth stands, just under Fox.

Also ... with regard to the tier list ... I think that Puff should be placed at the bottom of top. I also think that Falco and Shiek should exchange places.

Gannon and Doc should be in high. They are both underrated imo.

 

[TheManaLord]

Her match ups are actually pretty good on the chart Icy posted...Only two other character have a slight advantage, and three are even. I'd that that's about right.

That's all theory craft from the people working on that chart. They'd like to think they know what's going on but **** they're just pulling stuff out of their *** and want to be considered part of something. Well it's all ****! That chart sucks.

IT'S ALL THEORY. I'd like to see ANY of those matchups in practice. Oh wait, they do, and they get ****ed up. Theory is not practice. Those matchups aren't practical, the ideas and concepts behind them doing well aren't practical. It would've been done already if any success could come from it.

**** that ****.


This game was destroyed when wobbling became an issue. I'd rather deal with IC's than ****ing jigglypuff. At least IC's can get comboed. Wobbling would've put an end to jiggs

**** the MBR and **** TO's and **** the community.

I am cool with anyone who is cool with me (the person who's right in this argument)

 

[-ACE-]

Basically only rageful Falcons, Unholy skillful peaches, or a great gannon(while the puff is hungover) can beat jiggs.

Whoa, hold up... Puff is TOUGH for Ganon. Don't use Mango vs Kage as a reference. Trust me.

 

[Atlus8]

The metagame hasn't been able to beat jiggs for three years. So **** that bull****.

And she's fifth according to that CHARTS matchups... which is collaboration of nobodies and somebodies and lots of heresay, So **** that too.

Three years? It's only been two and a half years since Mango first started to get some major recognition! Ken dominated the tourny scene for three and a half years with his Marth! The metagame evolved and he was beaten! It will take time of course, but you make it sound impossible!

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Lol. I never said she's the best in the game. How many national and GLOBAL tournaments will puff have to place high at for people to see the truth? 3 puffs in top 5 at RoM2, Puff ditto GF's at Pound 4, and Mango HAS TO PICK PUFF TO BEAT HBOX. Hello? lol.

You're completely missing the point. The characters didn't play in the grand finals, the players did. Mango and Hbox beat foxes, falcos and sheiks like they are nothing even though the match-ups are against them. Its their player ability to overcome bad match-ups that is winning them tournaments, not the character that they are playing.

Puff is a good character. Can't a character be good without being in top tier?

Right now we have 4 characters in top tier which is more than melee has had since 03. Now everyone wants to stack the top 5-6 characters into top tier, which definitely isn't representative of the game.

The list before last was

Top:
Fox
Falco

High:
Sheik
Marth
Peach

while i doubt many people would agree with this ordering, i definitely agree that there is a division amongst the potential abilities of the highest 5-6 characters.



edit- I know TheManaLord is a huge troll, but ....

**** the MBR and **** TO's and **** the community.

**** you too

 

[AceSox]

That's all theory craft from the people working on that chart. They'd like to think they know what's going on but **** they're just pulling stuff out of their *** and want to be considered part of something. Well it's all ****! That chart sucks.

IT'S ALL THEORY. I'd like to see ANY of those matchups in practice. Oh wait, they do, and they get ****ed up. Theory is not practice. Those matchups aren't practical, the ideas and concepts behind them doing well aren't practical. It would've been done already if any success could come from it.

**** that ****.


This game was destroyed when wobbling became an issue. I'd rather deal with IC's than ****ing jigglypuff. At least IC's can get comboed. Wobbling would've put an end to jiggs

**** the MBR and **** TO's and **** the community.

I am cool with anyone who is cool with me (the person who's right in this argument)

Of course the charts are all theory, there's no match-up data they can just grab off the disc and have 100% accurate data. But it gives players an idea on what matches MIGHT be harder then others, so they can further improve themselves in certain situations. It all comes down to player preference in the end though, so I can see why you don't care for the chart/MBR.

 

[SDC]

Ken dominated the tourny see for three and a half years with his Marth!

True, and his efforts and ingenuity were a factor in Marth's tier placement. Will/should the same happen to jigglypuff?

 

[TheManaLord]

The way smash is played today is so incredibly different from when it was played then. So much more is known today, so many more players play with greater knowledge about the game. It's hell of a lot different between then and now, when people couldn't even DI properly. Now everyone and their grandma knows about DI and how to escape what used to be reliable setups and combos.

 

[BananaTrooper]

I am 1000% with ManaLord. **** the matchup chart. **** noobs preaching useless strategy. Puff is utter cow****.

 

[-ACE-]

You're completely missing the point. The characters didn't play in the grand finals, the players did. Mango and Hbox beat foxes, falcos and sheiks like they are nothing even though the match-ups are against them. Its their player ability to overcome bad match-ups that is winning them tournaments, not the character that they are playing

I'm missing the point? How about you ignoring the fact that Mango HAS TO PICK PUFF TO BEAT HBOX. Mango is better than Hbox, and it's the player that matters, not the character, right? So why can't he beat HBox with other characters that are "better" than jiggs? Also, I am not using the 1 Fox match in Pound as the only example. Hbox beat Mango in every MM they had at RoM2 except for the puff ditto, iirc. It's much more dependent on matchups, and jiggs has no terrible matchups. She has a few where she is slightly disadvantaged and that's it. You should be a little more open-minded towards this imo.