Ike : A Detailed Matchup Guide; #33 - Ness

[XZA143]

I haven't played too many Peaches, just one or two really good ones. Here is what i've noticed from the match up:

-As for the jab/grab/release scenario: I just tested it and found that the after Ike pummels Peach and she breaks the grab, both characters initial jab will clash, then Peach's will win out. If you see this coming you have enough time to shield her jab, but from this point on its up to you do whatever you feel is best.

-Her Dair can combo you pretty good and pressure your shield well. Of course if abused its easily shut down by well spaced Fairs, Ftilts aimed upward or Usmashes if timed correctly. Utilts are effective, but be sure to space them correctly because her Dair will come out before the Utilt.

-Don't fall for the turnip throw to grab tactic. Use them against her if able otherwise powershield and be on your way.

-Peach's Utilt/Usmash out prioritize quite a few moves. Unless your carefully timing an eruption, not really too much reason to attack directly from above.

-Don't be afraid to Aether if shes high up and bring her *** down.

-Toad is just like the Dair: good when used correctly, will get punished if abused. Charge a smash or two to keep the toading in check.

-Don't be afraid to counter. Peaches like to close in after throwing a turnip at you.

-Not too sure on the toad gimping Aether. I've been able to reverse Aether recover with it sometimes, other times my percentage is already too high that I can't make it back once hit. In a few matches i've started Aether just out of toads range and was able to still sweet spot the ledge(had to move myself horizontally during the Aether animation),while in others I waited until I was as low as possible then used Aether to sweet spot. DI correctly so this doesn't become too much of a problem.

-Killing isn't much of a problem. You'll most likely finish her with smashes or aerials then spikes, so don't go for them too much.

-Don't let your shield down prematurely. Peaches like to attack with an aerial then go straight into their jab, from my experience Ike isn't fast enough to shield grab this.

-Fair is a favored kill move if Peach isn't going for the gimping. Watch out for it. Theres some lag afterwards, but you might not get the chance to punish if spaced correctly.

Thats all I got for now. Be smart with your spacing, be especially aware of Fair, Dair, turnips and toad and you should be alright.

 

[Kinzer]

That's it, although I'm my own person, I can't reliably kill Peach for my life, I felt that I had to get lucky to get anything in! Peach has combo-potential (Yes I'm d*** serious), a 2-Dthrow CG at 0% on Ike which after the second throw leads into another combo, Dsmash has too many hits for my liking, and I can't hit her in the air! I suck so bad I'm not even worthy to represent the Ike community if I ever could! I could take the turnip gimp kills, letting you win due to being too cocky and going to a Dair spike, but when I get three stocked that's when I know I am no good anymore.

 

[DrakeRowan]

GGS. Don't sweat it man. Online really doesn't mean much. There was just a little gap in skill level. You did win a couple of matches and was also doing really well at times :D. Heck, you ALMOST had a 3-stock on me as well .

My stance on this matchup still stands though.

 

[Royta]

Easy Kinzer, i'm sure you did all you could =]
You just met your match (as I would against 90% of the people on the boards) but you learn from it!
Value your defeat and use it to your advantage! ;D

Also, maybe you could tell in detail what you were having trouble with =]?

 

[Kinzer]

Well, as I've said before, just be smart with Aether recovery, and you shouldn't have to worry about the Toad spores (although I have to admit I did get caught in it sometimes). I've also said it in my last post that I had trouble with Peach's combos, I went from 0 to above 50% if done right with the Dairs that chain into other things. You really can't use Aether to bring Peach down no matter how high you are because she can just hang in the same place forever. Not to mention the last thing I had trouble with was that I got abused too much for all my laggy attacks, and counter doesn't come out fast enough to help. Turnips and Toad were the least of my worries basically.

Oh God I wanted to counterpick Sonic so badly...

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Hai X

I thought I should add like X said that you should never try to approach Peach from above. Her Up Tilt will block nearly everything (unless you have good timing with Eruption)

Also, I find trying to outright kill Ike with Fair a bad idea the majority of the time. My aim is to get Ike off the edge as fast as possible by any means. Jab, F Smash, Fair, F Throw, Bair, B Throw...blahdeblah. When I can get a Fair in though, I will do.

 

[XACE-K]

That's it, although I'm my own person, I can't reliably kill Peach for my life, I felt that I had to get lucky to get anything in! Peach has combo-potential (Yes I'm d*** serious), a 2-Dthrow CG at 0% on Ike which after the second throw leads into another combo, Dsmash has too many hits for my liking, and I can't hit her in the air! I suck so bad I'm not even worthy to represent the Ike community if I ever could! I could take the turnip gimp kills, letting you win due to being too cocky and going to a Dair spike, but when I get three stocked that's when I know I am no good anymore.

Don't get too annoyed by it, it's just wifi. This is basically a sample of what playing Peach is like. If you have a friedn who mains or seconds Peach, practice against them. More matches against a character lets you learn the match-up more.

 

[Praxis]

I haven't played a lot of Ike's- the only ones that beat me were when the lag was bad enough I couldn't avoid fair spam (some people seem to have developed "online playstyles" that would never work IRL but work fine under lag, lol). But I feel Peach has the advantage here as long as you always approach with a turnip in hand. Turnips gimp him and interrupt his slow attacks.

Glide tossing a turnip into his face is unusually effective, because Peach's jab comes out faster than his. Glide toss to jab to cover yourself, and if the jab lands you can immediately dash grab him out of the hitstun.

And yeah, watch out for Dair. One Dair at 0% can result in 50% combos.

 

[Ussi]

Draik? Same one on OBC forums? If that is him, then Kinzer you went against a top notch Peach ;o but don't forget Kinzer online doesn't show a person's true skill. Don't lose hope, we Ike's have to fight for each other.


and Burrito ;o enlighten me on this trap G&W has on pirate ship.

 

[M@v]

Hey guys, just letting you know we are starting Fox vs ike in the fox boards:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=186742&page=33
(it starts near the bottom of the page)
feel free to contribute.

 

[DrakeRowan]

Draik? Same one on OBC forums?

The one and only!

 

[Dark.Pch]

To me the Match up is even. The things Ike lacks, Peach has. And the things Peach lacks, Ike has.

For Peach we can't kill Ike that well. Its a freaking pain. Yet he can kill Peach under 100%. Also what annoys me about Ike is his pressure game. It's really good on Peach and can set her up for a kill. I find it hard to get inside a good Ike with his pressure game and the somewhat spacing he has.

I'll Tell you this. If you are a good Ike and Peach rushes you, The fight is a lil easier for you. Ike can handle that type of agression from Peach.

Also you don't wanna rush Peach nether. Your attacks lag besides his Nair. Peach can abuse you easy out of her shield. And all of her attacks auto cancel. So taking the fight easy is the best way to go.

If Peach is hitting your shield with Dairs 2 things you can do

- Aim your shield up so she cant shield stab you, and then when she lands to a Nair, grab her.

- If you block her Dairs and she lands behind you, Bair out of your shield. Thats about the quickest air move Ike has. And Has decent power. If not, then your only choice you have left is to roll away and hope to break free from her range. Cause you have nothing out of your sheild that can stop a second Dair pounding out of your shield

If you know the basic Peach tactics, use it to your advantage. Like Turnip>Fair You can somewhat edgeguard her well. Peach is just about a sitting duck in the air. And her air dodge is crap. I remember dodging an upair from Ike............and I still got hit and died. Also she is slow comming down from the skies. So time your attacks and bait the air dodges and Peach is all yours.

 

[Airgemini]

Also try to sweetspot the ledge when recovering. From what I've seen most Peaches use Toad when Ike uses Up B and when they get hit by Toad most of the time they cant recover back.

And as others have said watch out for Dairs =p.

 

[Kinzer]

Oh wow...I guess that's good to know that my attempts weren't in vein, of course I'm nowhere near the skill level the better Ikes have to offer, but to know that I could somewhat compete with a top-notch player is a good feeling!

 

[MysticKenji]

enlighten me on this trap G&W has on pirate ship.

he might be referring to GW's water camping.

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

It's really simple once your in the water he attacks with Dair then Up B and repeat till he can kill you with Fair.

 

[Ussi]

;OO ooh Draik~ It's been soo long. I remember we brawled back when you were trying Peach out, lol. haha good times good times.

Kinzer, Draik is one of the best Peaches there are, so don't feel bad for losing. Also don't forget about lag, top notch players, who don't play online regularly, lose more skill due to lag. No offense.



o_o wow Burrito, i want to see that, we might have to find a new stage. But can't Ike aether out of the water?

 

[HeroMystic]

o_o wow Burrito, i want to see that, we might have to find a new stage. But can't Ike aether out of the water?

Not if he's stuck in the animation.

 

[SleeplessInKyoto]

Its literally impossible to play an offensive game against Ike with Peach. The reason being is because the risks are too high. Ike can kill Peach at very low %'s and his attacks rack the damage up high if hit. Peach players have no choice but to play it defensive with the turnips and avoiding ground attacks with floating above Ike and D-Air-ing.

The best thing to do when you see a float coming, (or try to predict when a Peach player will float towards you) Use your U-Smash or F-Smash as these two attacks can actually hit Peach in the air while she's floating above you or near you. Thanks to Ike's ridiculous attack range, a lot of Peach players will get hit by this. If you can disable Peach's floating game, you've got half the match in the bag.

 

[Dark.Pch]

You can also run to Peach, turn around and space a bair to clap her out of her floating. Or timed a Nair.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

To me the Match up is even. The things Ike lacks, Peach has. And the things Peach lacks, Ike has.

This

/matchup

 

[YagamiLight]

I don't think there's a ton more to add on this subject, seeing as we've discussed the Princess for two days and half. I should have something up either today or tomorrow.

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

In that case lets do wolf next it would help both boards out a lot. http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=199201

More imput from both sides if we do it simultaneously.

 

[XACE-K]

In that case lets do wolf next it would help both boards out a lot. http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=199201

More imput from both sides if we do it simultaneously.

That could be good but how about we do somebody that doesn't go even or better against Ike? Just throwing this out there because it will be something different.

Spoiler

In other words, pick Falcon next.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Because Ike is mainly enough to face his toughest foes first?

 

[Kinzer]

Yes!

C'mon, Show Me Your Confidence!

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Anyone mind helping me at the Fox Match-up topic? I don't know as much as some of you.

 

[YagamiLight]

In that case lets do wolf next it would help both boards out a lot. http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=199201

More imput from both sides if we do it simultaneously.

That will be one million (1000000) U.S. Dollars.

Anyone mind helping me at the Fox Match-up topic? I don't know as much as some of you.

Which part do you need help on?

 

[Hoser]

From what I read from his posts, he's looking for confirmation on some frame data.

Btw, I was just thinking, we should get like 3 or 4 recently non-wifi recorded matches of each character, and post them with each character, as an example of how to fight that character. (assuming we can get that many)

 

[Kinzer]

Meh non-wifi is kind of asking too much because I'm not too sure how many of us go to tournaments frequentely, let alone have recording devices. Second it would have to be good videos, it proves nothing when you get an opponent who has played Brawl for a day (obvious).

If I just had a simple recording device (d*** adolescence) I could give you all the wi-fi matches you could ask for and more. XD

 

[Hoser]

Yeah, it kinda is asking too much. It should be a goal to get at least 1 non-wifi match though (against a good opponent). I'm going to a small tournament on the 25th, and I'm gonna record my matches. If they prove to be good, I can post them.

 

[YagamiLight]

From what I read from his posts, he's looking for confirmation on some frame data.

Btw, I was just thinking, we should get like 3 or 4 recently non-wifi recorded matches of each character, and post them with each character, as an example of how to fight that character. (assuming we can get that many)

That's not a bad idea at all, but the only matches I have extensively recorded are me versus Yoshi, and we all know how common Yoshi is in tournaments! Though, to be honest, I'm slowly amassing my good videos with as many different characters as possible, and the eventual plan is to upload them. Stay tuned.

That said, if anyone has videos (Wifi or not, it's a bit too much to ask for non-Wifi only), just post a link and I'll see what I can do.

My other plans for the topic include a "Ban this stage" section and a "Character Popularity" section, but we'll see how that develops.

 

[Kinzer]

Anyway I should probably drop a word or two for Wuuphie.

Wolf I think has a few things going for him. for one thing he has a very strange projectile. It's slow compared to other projectiles, has a small stun/flinch effect, and I think does 4-6% damage on contact. It should be rather easy to not let Wolf gimp you offstage with it by just recovering low.

Wolf can Hyphen his Usmash smash pretty far, not to mention that his Fsmash drags him sligtly forward. I can't forget Dsmash either with it's high power.

Fire Wolf compared to the other spacies' recoveries kind of starts up fast...not really sure how far it will take him though, probably not very. He'll probably use this if he has no other way to recover.

Wolf Flash is quite an interesting special. He can cancel it like Fox and Falco can cancel their Illusion/Phantasm respectively, not only that but if timed perfectely Wolf will actually gain more horizontal distance if done correctly at the cost of losing the sweetspot. I haven't even gotten to the good part, where he can even pass right through stages with this and hit you with the sweetspot if you try to ledge-gaurd him. One thing I have noticed though and this might catch even the Wolf user off gaurd but sometimes Wolf Flash won't grab the ledge, and won't bring him into the helplessness state but wather refresh him and just drop him as if he was just freefalling. He can actually kill himself doing this if he doesn't react fast enough.

Since Ike has no projectile it shouldn't be too "table-turning" if Wolf uses this...In fact, the only times he would and should ever use this as his get-out-of-my-face move. Just like the other reflectors, this one will shock you if you happen to be within range when Wolf activates this.

Wolf is quite fast with his aerials, his Nair has the most power on start-up, and keeps attacking until he cancels this by landing, or the move just happens to end. Wolf's Bair has noticeably fast start-up as well as power to boot, and not only that but it has less ending lag than your Bair, meaning he could probably WoP with this, MAYBE! Wolf' Fair is the same as Ike's in the sense that when fullhopped he has IASA frames (is it?) and can follow up with something right after this when he hits the ground. It also has more Star K.O. power than his Uair at the cost of only hitting in front of him and with the same lag as Ike's Fair in the air. I wouldn't really worry about his Uair other than that he would be using to juggle you with it, but then again you have your sexy sex-kick Dair, and if he mistimes his Uair he's going to get it good...UP THE BUTT CHARIZARD WOLF!! Finally he has his Dair, which that too has spiking properties, but then in this sense you have your Uair to counter this in the air, not mentioning what else you could use to outplay his dair.

I'm not really sure about his tilts other than that jis Ftilt can strike twice (right?), I think his Dtilt and trip you, and his Utilt would only be used to juggle you at low ^ages but somebody else will have to cover this area.

For counterpicking Wolf, Lylat Cruise seems to work fine, and if that's not available...well then somebody else will have to cover that too, as I don't know of a better stage to use against Wolf than Lylat Cruise.

Off-topic, can anybody see the avatar I have or still not?

Edit: Responding to Light.

Oh something like character popularity would be nice, it would help people know that if they tend to enter tournaments they should be expecting a helluva lot of MK's assuming he doesn't get banned... A "Ban this Stage" thing could work...but then again, Don't we just want to worry about not being taken to Jungle Japes and Rainbow Cruise with the exception of Olimar? Finally I'm not entirely sure on the video project either. Think about it, what if the videos become outdated in the sense that maybe for example, the Zero Suits found a new AT that would drastically improve the way they play, the videos would no longer be valid and would require constant updating. Up to you though, I'm pretty that most things in Brawl have already been soaked up anyway...

On another note...

Quote - Peach’s main form of threat is her Down Aerial at low percents. This pressures shields like no other. To avoid this, angle your shield upward as much as you can. If she hits you while floating, she will often follow it up with another down Aerial and top it off with an Up Aerial for massive damage. No, seriously, it hurts. Your best bet is to DI this if you get his, but of course not getting hit at all is the best course of action! The rest of her Aerial game is certainly good enough for causing damage as well. The Nair is very fast and the Bair has decent range, the Up Air is fast as well.


That's the fourth paragraph in your Peach write up, you left out the "T" in "his", just giving you a heads up.

 

[YagamiLight]

Off-topic, can anybody see the avatar I have or still not?

Edit: Responding to Light.

Oh something like character popularity would be nice, it would help people know that if they tend to enter tournaments they should be expecting a helluva lot of MK's assuming he doesn't get banned... A "Ban this Stage" thing could work...but then again, Don't we just want to worry about not being taken to Jungle Japes and Rainbow Cruise with the exception of Olimar? Finally I'm not entirely sure on the video project either. Think about it, what if the videos become outdated in the sense that maybe for example, the Zero Suits found a new AT that would drastically improve the way they play, the videos would no longer be valid and would require constant updating. Up to you though, I'm pretty that most things in Brawl have already been soaked up anyway...

Your avatar has vanished. Poof.

And yeah, I'm not too sure on the video thing myself. I will work on getting the popularity and ban stage in action, however.

And I'll be sure to fix the Peach thing soon as well.

 

[Kinzer]

Man, SWF is still broken! I'ma hafta put the beatdown some more!

*goes back to lame run-of-the-mill Ike picutre...*

 

[SaltyKracka]

Man, SWF is still broken! I'ma hafta put the beatdown some more!

*goes back to lame run-of-the-mill Ike picutre...*

Muhuhuhuhuhuhuhuhuhuhuhuhuhuhu

 

[Hoser]

Finally I'm not entirely sure on the video project either. Think about it, what if the videos become outdated in the sense that maybe for example, the Zero Suits found a new AT that would drastically improve the way they play, the videos would no longer be valid and would require constant updating. Up to you though, I'm pretty that most things in Brawl have already been soaked up anyway...

True, but think about that for a moment. If ZSS found a new AT that would drastically improve the way they play, then the guide itself would need updating as well.

 

[Kinzer]

True, but think about that for a moment. If ZSS found a new AT that would drastically improve the way they play, then the guide itself would need updating as well.

That is true...guess it's just something to consider I guess. My point remains valid that it will be tough to be find a good player for both characters however, and not to mention the videos themselves will eventually get old, even if nothing more is discovered just because for some reason matches lose their credibility for whatever reason...

On a side note they actually have an Ordinary Soldier Ike! I can live with this!

 

[Hoser]

That's quite true, it will be hard to find a good player for both characters, but it's not like we need to have all of them tomorrow. We can just add them as we get them. If Light wants to do this idea, I'll even offer to search around for some good videos through SWF members youtube's. It doesn't really matter if the Ike loses, as long as the match is good. The videos wouldn't be there to show exactly how to beat them, but as a guide, showing you generally how that character fights, what to look out for, and some good strategies against that specific character.

 

[Kinzer]

It doesn't even have to have Ike win, the people who are watching it can capitalize on what the Ike did wrong/couldn't do and when their time comes will (I hope) learn from somebody else's mistake and can improvise. But yeah I guess putting in a little more effort into this guide can't hurt, we can just make this kind of an off-side project.

BTW Cambriel I think I'm gonna try and get my mother to probably give me some recording devices/capabilities for my birthday, you think we can talk about what's needed and stuff for get some Youtube videos up when you have the chance?