Ike : A Detailed Matchup Guide; #33 - Ness

[XACE-K]

Lulz, OCD... o_O

But seriously, what series HAVEN'T we done yet? And don't say something like Sonic or F-Zero... -_-

VVVVVVVVV

Earthbound.

We also didn't do

DK series & Yoshi series (although both are apart of the Mario series)

and

Random

Spoiler

Random is awesome enough to have his own series.

Or we can do another Pokemanz.

Spoiler

*coughLucarioPokemonTrainercough*

 

[Guilhe]

PT or Weegee please.

 

[Kinzer]

We should do MAMA LUIGI, he's an interesting character.

 

[YagamiLight]

Hate, hate, hate, hate Luigi. Actually, I highly dislike both Mario brothers, truth be told. Hate, hate, hate, hate.



Those Geodudes convey my hate.

 

[HeroMystic]

Hate, hate, hate, hate Luigi. Actually, I highly dislike both Mario brothers, truth be told. Hate, hate, hate, hate.



Those Geodudes convey my hate.

I am satisfied by your hate.

 

[YagamiLight]

I am satisfied by your hate.

I was going to say something witty and totally cool, but it seems to have escaped me. As such, I'll use this post to continue showing my anger, post more pokemon images and spoil the next character.

:mewtwo::mewtwo:

 

[Kinzer]

Well the Super Mario Bros. don't like you too much either Light.

(If you're hate is coming from having problems with them in-game, this would be a perfect opportunity to start the match-up. We could probably even do them both at the same time and it wouldn't be too much of a hassle. I wonder if both boards have each others' backs.)

 

[HeroMystic]

You don't want to do both at the same time. They both work differently and shouldn't be categorized for one match-up.

Doing them back-to-back though, wouldn't be a bad thing.

EDIT: But we have to do Lucario first.

 

[YagamiLight]

Oh, I actually don't mind any character in Brawl. I just don't think it's very manly of Mario to go "Yoohoo!" whenever he does something, really.

 

[SaltyKracka]

Manondorf. Because he's so **** manly.

 

[Mmac]

I made a Compact Universal Matchup Template for you to use, if you want to use it. Just add in the Title/Numbers yourself, and whatever else you want to do with it. If you want me to make you a more Unique design, then PM me with a Rough estimate of what you want.

 

[YagamiLight]

Mmac, are you aware of the fact that that is seriously pretty awesome? I'll brainstorm something cooler and PM you, of course.

 

[Kinzer]

We could use that when we start talking numbers I suppose...that also follows the tier list doesn't it? I can tell because Sonic is 5th from bottom *cough mine can compete with MKs*.

 

[Mmac]

that also follows the tier list doesn't it? I can tell because Sonic is 5th from bottom *cough mine can compete with MKs*.

Yeah, I ordered it by the current Tier List. It's even color coded to signified what Tier they're in. I think it's the most attractive/effective compared to other orders

 

[Kinzer]

Oh I hadn't noticed the lining either, looks like it took some work to get it like this...yeah, I'm sure Light will have a use for that picture that.

In other news, I'm just waiting to see if Light is gracing us with the next character and a write-up for Wuuphie.

 

[XACE-K]

Wow, that chart's nice Mmac. ROB looks a little short though.

So we're doing Lucario next!?

This is gonna be great.....

Spoiler

sarcasm

 

[Jim Morrison]

Ah... the Wolf. from what I learnt playing as Wolf, is spam lasers when your opponent is 1/3+ of FD away of you. when he comes close i d-smash/f-smash him. if he jumps over my laser, i side B and sweetspot him and then d-smash. either way, wolf is gonna play defensively. But you shouldnt take an offensive wolf lightly. He's got a good grab game (nice damage) and a f-smash thats 2 times his own body length. his aerial game isnt as good as ike's though. he has somewhat short range, which your sword should take care off.
Tl;dr: play aerial against Wolf

 

[JST]

Ah... the Wolf. from what I learnt playing as Wolf, is spam lasers when your opponent is 1/3+ of FD away of you. when he comes close i d-smash/f-smash him. if he jumps over my laser, i side B and sweetspot him and then d-smash. either way, wolf is gonna play defensively. But you shouldnt take an offensive wolf lightly. He's got a good grab game (nice damage) and a f-smash thats 2 times his own body length. his aerial game isnt as good as ike's though. he has somewhat short range, which your sword should take care off.
Tl;dr: play aerial against Wolf

Wolf's aerial game may not match Ike's in terms of range, but Wolf flat-out outspeeds Ike (Except Ike's bair). His bair also has surprising range and irritatingly good speed, and Wolf can use it to wall an opponent (Wall of Wolf). Combined with insane horizontal aerial momentum, lack of lag upon landing, and very solid ground game, a good Wolf will run circles around Ike.

Speaking of good Wolves, an EXPERIENCED Wolf is NEVER vulnerable, unless they go in for big hits or they mess up their spacing. Even with Ike's range, he'll be hard-pressed to get a hit on Wolf. Wolf's movement is incredibly erratic and confusing - weird aerial movement, shifty ground movement, quick rolls and spot-dodges, spammy Fsmash that has seemingly infinite range...

Also, Wolf's reflector. It's stupid fast and can interrupt nearly every single attack Ike can do if he's in range.

Watch out for Wolf's Dsmash. The only Dsmash that can outdo Wolf's in terms of speed, killing power, and range is Meta Knight's Dsmash. It's a KILLER finisher.

Wolf forces you to approach with blaster. That alone tips the scales in Wolf's favor.

 

[Bowser King]

If you don't approach the wolf just sits there and spams. When you approach a dsmash or fsmash to mess you up.

In the air wolfs speed and bair will keep you at bay. He can move fast and his reflector can get annoying if up close.
off stage a dair will likely come at your face or another bair. Approaching above can get annoying from >b but if timed well you won't have much trouble from it. When he approaches from above you have the advantage but the only problem is...how are you going to get him to.

-Bowser King

 

[YagamiLight]

Tadah, I present to you the scariest Lucario picture ever, it's also pretty big.



Pretty cool Pokemon, pretty good Brawl character, needs better costumes, etc etc

 

[Timbers]

Default was already given to Lucario, he needs no other costume.

To break the ice on this matchup, I absolutely love aurasphere in this matchup. Ike's aerials don't clank with aurasphere (and I guess projectiles in general), which totally negates the fact that baby auraspheres have crappy priority.

Aurasphere also find's Ike delicious whenever he peaks his head over that edge when he uBs.

Ike's fair is like grrr and stuff, regardless of it's startup lag. Approaching Ike is never the best of ideas. It's all too easy to Ike to bait Luc's somewhat linear approach options, so Luc is playing defense like the entire time.

 

[XACE-K]

Oh noes! The invasion of Lucarios begins. D:

Spoiler

Mewtwo's better.

- I like to CP stages where Lucario can't wall cling to help his recovery. I want him to aim for the ledge in this match-up. Especially because his Up-B does no damage.

-Aura Sphere and F-air can gimp Ike very well.

-Lucario can combo pretty well according to Brawl standards

-Kill Lucario early and be accurate of it. The Aura multiplier will kick in early with Ike being a powerhouse.

-Mewtwo's better.

-Watch out for Lucario's lingering hitboxes.

One last piece of info is that Mewtwo's better.

 

[MysticKenji]

Lucario is floaty enough where his UpB isn't much of a handicap to him.

Also, ban Luigi's Lucario's Mansion.

 

[JST]

Lucario's roll is the second coming of Jesus. It's that good.

Lucario is the ****.

Impressive range+lingering hitboxes+high priority, ****ing annoying projectile that can kill you very easily if you're caught unaware, solid aerial game, can actually pull off some inescapable combos along with HUGE strings of attacks that are hard to get out of, jab cancels, solid ground game (Fsmash. FSMAAAASH), decent recovery (No, it's not terribly easy to gimp unless you knock Lucario waaaaaaay out) and the aura boost. He's also very floaty. =DDD He's also a slippery target and can make a pretty good defensive wall with his good aerials and DI.

Lucario is a very balanced, very solid character. His only real weaknesses from what I've seen are difficulty finishing opponent's while he's at a low percent, he's outranged by Ike (But has quicker start-up on most attacks), he puts a lot at risk if he tries to approach Ike (Which he shouldn't be doing) and he has no way to stop opponents from intercepting his recovery.

Ike can kill Lucario &#$%(#$ early. He racks up damage quickly, but that also works against him. Ike has to play carefully as he gets Luc into the killzone. Ike's range helps him do that quite nicely.

 

[Timbers]

For the people under the impression that Ike can gimp Lucario, he can't...lol.

Luc shouldn't even have to use his uB in this match, unless he just DI'd a bair or ftilt very badly...and even then Luc has the option of landing onstage with little worry of Ike, as Ike's ledgehop options are pretty nonexistant.

 

[SaltyKracka]

For the people under the impression that Ike can gimp Lucario, he can't...lol.

Luc shouldn't even have to use his uB in this match, unless he just DI'd a bair or ftilt very badly...and even then Luc has the option of landing onstage with little worry of Ike, as Ike's ledgehop options are pretty nonexistant.

How.....arrogant of you.

 

[Timbers]

How.....arrogant of you.

and yet how right I am.

If Ike isn't sending Lucario to the blastzone, Luc is going to make it back, every single time.

That's obviously without human error. Luc can always gimp himself with poor decisions such as bad ES curving, but this is a character discussion, not a player discussion.

 

[Kinzer]

My Ike is god tier lololololol.

But I seriously have nothing to contribute, most things have already been covered. Lucario has the speed, the power at high %ages, the mobility, and the survivability.

 

[SaltyKracka]

and yet how right I am.

If Ike isn't sending Lucario to the blastzone, Luc is going to make it back, every single time.

That's obviously without human error. Luc can always gimp himself with poor decisions such as bad ES curving, but this is a character discussion, not a player discussion.

And yet all Ike needs to do to gimp Luc is to keep sending him back out across the abyss with a walkoff fair. Unless of course Luc dodges and falls to his doom.

On a side note, does any other Ike user here just love his little leapfrog thing with fair?

 

[HeroMystic]

On a side note, does any other Ike user here just love his little leapfrog thing with fair?

Great for players with multi-jumps and trying to jump back onto the stage. They just keep ramming into F-air.

And I have nothing to say against Lucario, although my friend is a Lucario main, he's only a decent one at that. He's not aerial enough and too campy.

 

[SaltyKracka]

Great for players with multi-jumps and trying to jump back onto the stage. They just keep ramming into F-air.

And I have nothing to say against Lucario, although my friend is a Lucario main, he's only a decent one at that. He's not aerial enough and too campy.

Would you believe that I actually stage spike someone with the leapfrog once? It was rare as all hell, but pretty **** funny at the same time.

 

[MysticKenji]

And yet all Ike needs to do to gimp Luc is to keep sending him back out across the abyss with a walkoff fair. Unless of course Luc dodges and falls to his doom.

or does an upb

 

[Timbers]

And yet all Ike needs to do to gimp Luc is to keep sending him back out across the abyss with a walkoff fair. Unless of course Luc dodges and falls to his doom.

And you call me arrogant.

Tell your friends to learn how to DI the ever slowly moving fair. Luc has time to DI back towards the stage and uB onto the stage before Ike can even get back to the ledge.

I mean way to make yourself look like a fool I'll put money down that you can't even gimp a training dummy Lucario with walkoff fair.

And for the record, Luc has a much more versatile recovery than Ike. Telling me that if Lucario dodges an fair will make him kill himself is just ****ing hilarious lol.

 

[SaltyKracka]

or does an upb

In which case all Ike has to do is jump and Aether. It's not that hard.

 

[HeroMystic]

But don't make it sound so easy, because it isn't. >_>

 

[SaltyKracka]

But don't make it sound so easy, because it isn't. >_>

Nothing's ever easy.

And yes, I know I've exaggerated my case, but I have a point. Not that you don't, Timber, but saying that it's impossible for Ike to gimp Luc is just as much of an exaggeration.

/Gimping argument

 

[Timbers]

It's not an exaggeration lol.

Fair won't gimp Lucario.

I've never been aether, dtilt, or dair spiked, but I'm sure those will gimp Luc more than a walkoff fair ever could.

Also if Luc airdodges Ike's fair, Luc will be able to exit that airdodge and initiate his uB before Ike is even out of his fair lag, let alone having to use his midair and uB to recover. If anything, you just helped Luc gimp yourself with the easy invincibility frames.

Ike has a strong edge pressure game, why would you go and ruin that?

 

[SaltyKracka]

It's not an exaggeration lol.

Fair won't gimp Lucario.

I've never been aether, dtilt, or dair spiked, but I'm sure those will gimp Luc more than a walkoff fair ever could.

Also if Luc airdodges Ike's fair, Luc will be able to exit that airdodge and initiate his uB before Ike is even out of his fair lag, let alone having to use his midair and uB to recover. If anything, you just helped Luc gimp yourself with the easy invincibility frames.

Ike has a strong edge pressure game, why would you go and ruin that?

Yeah, but once Luc's gone and dodged to recover (assuming he does that in the first place), how's he going to prevent Ike from getting back on to the stage?

Oh, and mindgames. For example, if I make a habit of this, then when you see me walk off the stage, you're going to dodge then ES as soon as I get close to you. However, during that time, I have a number of options, such as attempting to edgehog you, or reverse Aether.

Basically mixups and mindgames. Can't ever get enough of those.

 

[Timbers]

do you play bad lucarios?

Because the good ones usually save their double jump until right before they ES, meaning if you're just jumping out there for no reason, that gives us plenty of time to just jump and grab the ledge, giving us a free ticket back to the stage lol.

I'm under the impression the Lucarios where you live aren't very competent, if all it takes is one fair for them to be gimped. Find better competition before you make an analysis on this matchup.

Renegade kept batting me away from the edge with fairs and I didn't hit blastzone until 160% lol.

 

[YagamiLight]

For my take on this, it's really much harder to gimp Lucario than a simple walkoff Fair and edgehog. Timbers is right in saying that competent Lucarios will save that second jump, then Up B only if necessary. They might also get you with a charged Aura Sphere they may have if you aren't careful. That said, you might catch them with a ledgedropped or ledgehopped Dair or maybe even Aether, but a Dtilt is probably a no-go.