Ike : A Detailed Matchup Guide; #33 - Ness

[YagamiLight]

That's quite true, it will be hard to find a good player for both characters, but it's not like we need to have all of them tomorrow. We can just add them as we get them. If Light wants to do this idea, I'll even offer to search around for some good videos through SWF members youtube's. It doesn't really matter if the Ike loses, as long as the match is good. The videos wouldn't be there to show exactly how to beat them, but as a guide, showing you generally how that character fights, what to look out for, and some good strategies against that specific character.

It's definitely not a top priority, but if you do have the time to get some good match videos found, I'd gladly post them. Lose or win, the important part is to see live what that character does and how the responses to that should be. Though I also propose that we have some sort of general consensus on what constitute a good video. Is a 3stock worthy of being posted, or should it be down to the wire?

I went ahead and searched all my replays for a video of my first time ever fighting a Peach. It's a video where I make mistakes, it demonstrates the effectiveness of Peach at what she does, and it demonstrates Ike's ability to retaliate to that. It also has the best ending ever.

http://files.filefront.com/rp+081014+16131bin/;12063914;/fileinfo.html

Spoiler

This is a shameless showing of good match. To view it, you need an SD card, if you don't have one and yet totally want to see it, just PM me.

 

[Kinzer]

Well it should more or less be close matches. IMO the only time you would ever probably see a 3-stock match is when the opponent messed up bigtime/Meta Knight showed C.Falcon his moves/There's most likely a big skill gap between the players. However it is still possible that the match was well-earned, I could 2-stock a Jiggs player with my Sonic (whose name shall remain unknown to protect his/her intregity) and IMO was still a good Jiggs (although Rollout was used a little bit more than necessary, I still had to turn up the heat to make sure that I wouldn't be sent flying to the blastzones).

It would also be best if everybody could easily upload and view the videos...Youtube works wonders.

 

[Hoser]

It doesn't even have to have Ike win, the people who are watching it can capitalize on what the Ike did wrong/couldn't do and when their time comes will (I hope) learn from somebody else's mistake and can improvise. But yeah I guess putting in a little more effort into this guide can't hurt, we can just make this kind of an off-side project.

BTW Cambriel I think I'm gonna try and get my mother to probably give me some recording devices/capabilities for my birthday, you think we can talk about what's needed and stuff for get some Youtube videos up when you have the chance?

Exactly my point.

And sure, I could help you out a bit. Arturito might be a better person to talk to though. I use my digital camera's record setting, which is pretty decent (the one match I have uploaded is bad because of how zoomed in it was). As for what's needed, I use windows movie maker, which should come installed on your computer (and is very easy to use. I've never used it until I uploaded that Ike vs .R.O.B viedo I have, and it only took me like three minutes), and of course, a Youtube account.

And if you'd like, when I get my Wii home tomorrow, you could send replays from your Wii to mine, and I could upload them for you. And if you do the homebrew channel thing, you can save any length replay.

And as for what makes a good match, we could nominate a video, and see what the rest of the Ike community thinks (as well as the board of the opposing character, if they're at all interested). Have a vote to see if its worthy or something.

 

[YagamiLight]

And if you'd like, when I get my Wii home tomorrow, you could send replays from your Wii to mine, and I could upload them for you. And if you do the homebrew channel thing, you can save any length replay.

And as for what makes a good match, we could nominate a video, and see what the rest of the Ike community thinks (as well as the board of the opposing character, if they're at all interested). Have a vote to see if its worthy or something.

We must be fine democratic Ikeboardians! Votes for all!

Speaking of the homebrew channel, that match I linked to a bit above is 5 minutes and some more. If that match was lost due to Sakurai's time restraint....

 

[Kinzer]

Well I would prefer if I could just get the replays straight from the Wii system itself, nothing like that real-time in person crap done at tournaments persay, most of the time it's not even viewable. :/

This is something I want my videos to look like (although there was a huge amount of lag, yay for the only youtube video featuring me as the Sonic that could've won had there been no lag! Also the video was longer than 3 minutes so I assume Nau had the hack to record any lengthed video, which I'll probably have to get Twilight Princess just for this. -_-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wX-cSlIfbxc

But yeah, I can already tell I'll probably need these few things: An SD card, A copy of the TP, A Youtube account, and something that can process the videos from the SD card to the computer or something like that...I am not a very technical person. :/)

 

[YagamiLight]

But yeah, I can already tell I'll probably need these few things: An SD card, A copy of the TP, A Youtube account, and something that can process the videos from the SD card to the computer or something like that...I am not a very technical person. :/)

It's impossible to convert the saved video replay bin file to a movie format, actually. Yeah, lame, I know.

 

[Hoser]

Light's right, there is no way. I bought my Wii SD card under the impression that you could, only to be proved wrong.

How I do it is I set my camera on a tripod, and get it perfectly fitted to the screen, with as little zoom as possible (as it distorts the image to the point that its almost not worth watching). The tripod stops it from shaking, and since it's in the same place the whole time, you don't need to worry about it refocusing. The sound comes out fine as well too. I'm pretty sure this is how most people do it, except with a video recorder instead of a digital camera.

 

[Kinzer]

Depressing... But I still have it in my head that it is somehow possible to do so. I mean if Naucitos did it the same way Cambriel describbed, then you should've been able to hear things like background noises, most noticably the clicking of buttons and the pads and stuff on the Gamecube controller, but as you listen you notice that's not present. The video was captured and uploaded straight from the match or so it would seem if you understand where I'm trying to go. I'll probably have to get some really good help to get this stuff done. hehe

 

[Hoser]

I'm not exactly sure how that's done, but my guess would be some audio editing. Arturito would probably be one one to ask on this forum, seeing as he records a lot of matches. Are you sure it wasn't a saved replay though?

 

[SaltyKracka]

Now, you may not listen to me. Hell, I'm not quite sure what I'm describing even exists, but meh. I think that there's possibly (probably) a device for sale out there that lets you hook up you component cables to it, and it's component cables to your TV, basically acting as an intermediary between your Wii and TV. And what this device does when switched is record the input from the Wii electronically and save it as a replayable format for PC or whatever. Eh, theory, but highly probable, given some of what I've seen on YT.

 

[Kinzer]

I'm not exactly sure how that's done, but my guess would be some audio editing. Arturito would probably be one one to ask on this forum, seeing as he records a lot of matches. Are you sure it wasn't a saved replay though?

Tha'ts what I'm trying to imply, that it was indeed a saved reply and Naucitos used the hack to be able to save it...although lag can kind of distort the timer, and that 8 minute fight for all I know could've actually been a little less than 4 minutes guaranteed.

 

[Hoser]

Oh, I misunderstood what you had said. I thought you said it wasn't a saved replay.

@SaltyKracka: Have you seen/heard of this before, or are you just saying that you think there's something like that out there?

Oh, and as for getting TP for the homebrew channel, just rent it or borrow it from a friend. You only need it when you install the hack.

Edit: That match was not a saved replay. If it was, it wouldn't show their names (since the replay doesn't save them).

 

[SaltyKracka]

Well, it's not exactly something I've seen in person, buuuuuuut it's exactly the kind of thing I'd make if I wanted to save replays easy. I actually took the concept from TiVo, which took it from VCRs, and so on.

Oh, and as for that Naucitos replay, if you look at it, it'd make sense that that's the kind of thing he did to make that video, as it actually shows the spotty lag. Y'see, in saved replays on the Wii, lag never shows up except for in the actions of the players, and input lag isn't ever visible at all, so if lag shows up in a vid, then that vid must have been captured by an outside source. Logic FTW.

 

[Kinzer]

Oh yeah that's right...hmm, it would probably a lot of trouble just to even get into contact with Naucitos and ask him what he did in there...but I won't worry about that now I suppose, the video is just there, otherwise people still have no idea who I am, and will continue to do so until months go by.

Edit: That is true as well... Naucitos made this video really good, I got to admit...It doesn't even look like it was recorded from an outside source considering how it's hard to see anything outside, not to mention the quality of it for being an outside source.

 

[SaltyKracka]

@Kinzer: Nononononono....no. What I'm saying is not that he used a camera to record the screen, but he probably used something similar to my hypothetical setup to record it directly from the component cables.

Ummm... *tries to think of an example* Has anybody ever played a light-gun game for the PS2? Y'know that thing that you have to hook into the video component cable to get the shots to register? The video thing I'm talking about would be somewhat similar to this, but would take all of the component cables instead.

 

[Hoser]

After watching the video again, I'm gonna say he recorded it with a cam recorder. If you look at the left and right edge, you can see a black border, and the right side looks as though its closer to the recording source than the video is (meaning it looks kinda 3D).

So my guess is he either edited the paddle sound out, or just turned the TV's sound up so high, you couldn't hear it.

We've gotten waaay off topic though. If you want to send me those replays via the Wii, then shoot me a PM, and we'll find a time to do it.

As for the main purpose of this topic currently: Wolf.

He was one of my hardest match-ups for a while. His smash moves have two hit points, making the spot dodge and roll almost useless against them. The shield is going to be your best friend in this match if you end up on the defensive. His lasers make you approach him, but that's nothing new for Ike players. Wolf is also faster then Ike, in both mobility and moves, but to my knowledge, Ike out ranges Wolf, so spacing is a necessity (as always) At the moment, I'm for some reason completely blanking on what any of Wolf's air moves are, and I don't have my Wii here to check, so I can't touch on those. Both characters are easily gimpable, but I think Ike might actually have an easier time gimping Wolf then the other way around. Not to mention to even try and spike Ike is risky as wolf, due to his limited third jump. Coming back at the wrong angle could lead to a Wolf's demise, and there's always the chance that he could go too far out and not be able to make it back, or for his spike to miss and end up getting cliffhung.

I'd say 60:40 Wolf sounds good.

 

[Kinzer]

Eh...looking back I filled up a good page with my useless ranting...but I guess nobody is really on to care... Uhm anyway I really don't have any replays that are worthy of putting on the internet (mostly because they're always over the freaking limit!) I'll get Burrito to try and help me with this if he feels like it.

As for my two-cents on Wolf, I've already covered that... a while back...

/offtopic

 

[HeroMystic]

I'll jump in the off-topic conversation for a moment and say it -is- possible to record replays. I use a DVD recorder to record my fights (with plenty of high quality ). You can also use a capture card if you install in it your PC, but I find DVD recording to be easier (although a longer process).

As for Wolf, he's a ***. He's the #1 character I hate fighting against, cause they do the same **** thing. Roll away, spam the ****ing blaster, F-Smash for spacing, D-smash if you're in their face, then repeat. In which case, I probably never played a good Wolf, but his spacing ability is very tough for Ike to get around considering his lackluster approach skills.

 

[Ussi]

Wolf is a character I always battle by instinct alone. Seriously I never know what i'm doing cause i'm out of it >__>

Oh yea, I have a recording device so I'm gonna start recording matches. I tried to get me vs Snake but i messed up my recording settings x.O

Well I'm gonna take a stab with Wolf vs Ike:

I believe Ike gimps Wolf better than Wolf gimps Ike. Wolf can't risk going far out, so Ike can easily keep away and recover really low. If Wolf keeps close or really far away, a QD would actually be fine to do. Ike should live to 130% if you properly space. Why 130% because eventually you'll slip into Wolf's down smash. Wolf's fsmash is usually stale so it's not for killing. But Wolf's 2nd biggest weakness is being shield grabbed, so exploit it.

 

[XACE-K]

Wolf time. Can't let you do that Starfox!

-Ike is better at gimping Wolf than Wolf is at gimping Ike. Ike has more options and his recovery is a little bit better.

-CP stages were blaster is ineffective.

-Wolf has good aerials so watch out for them.

-B-air, F-air, D-smash and F-smash seem to be the most used kill moves.

-U-tilt can juggle Ike.

-D-throw can kill Ike when near the ledge and at high enough damage.

 

[Kinzer]

Hey is it possible that Wolf can Reflector-Infintie Ike against a wall or would that be a double standard to say that it only works for Fox?

 

[XACE-K]

Hey is it possible that Wolf can Reflector-Infintie Ike against a wall or would that be a double standard to say that it only works for Fox?

I think it only works for Fox. It might be to slow to work but I need to check.

 

[•Col•]

Wolf can't infinite someone against a wall with his reflector... It's too slow.

 

[XACE-K]

Wolf can't infinite someone against a wall with his reflector... It's too slow.

YOU'RE TOO SLOW!

Anybody else think Ike and Wolf are pretty similar characters (except with the blaster)? Both have spammable f-smashes and AAA combos, crappy recoveries, were said to be high tier when Brawl came out and other aspects.

Or do I just notice this because I main Ike and second Wolf?

 

[MysticKenji]

Both have spammable f-smashes

huh?

Anyway, get past blaster spam and stay near him.

 

[•Col•]

YOU'RE TOO SLOW!

Anybody else think Ike and Wolf are pretty similar characters (except with the blaster)? Both have spammable f-smashes and AAA combos, crappy recoveries, were said to be high tier when Brawl came out and other aspects.

Or do I just notice this because I main Ike and second Wolf?

No... I don't think they're similiar at all....... xD

 

[XACE-K]

huh?

Anyway, get past blaster spam and stay near him.

Wolf f-smash and Ike f-smash are the most spammed f-smashes from n00bs IMO.

Besides, that has nothing to do with the match-up. I did post my thoughts on the match-up but that is a post of me trying to compare a swordsman and a talking wolf.

 

[Arturito_Burrito]

I just noticed that the wolf boards are already on ness which is match up 28 and Ike was 26 they move pretty fast. I wonder if they even took a look at our input on it.

 

[Kinzer]

They better have, otherwise they didn't really PREPARE THEMSELVES! Let them run their matchup while we run ours, I believe we already have enough insight on Wolf anyway.

...They'll get no sympathy from Ike's if they really didn't take up on our words...

 

[Ussi]

They better have, otherwise they didn't really PREPARE THEMSELVES! Let them run their matchup while we run ours, I believe we already have enough insight on Wolf anyway.

...They'll get no sympathy from Ike's if they really didn't take up on our words...

well spoken Kinzer. I support

 

[XACE-K]

I just noticed that the wolf boards are already on ness which is match up 28 and Ike was 26 they move pretty fast. I wonder if they even took a look at our input on it.

They don't move fast, they're just impatient. The have a match-up open for a day and they move on. They also think of Ike as a very easy character to beat which he isn't if you're smart.

 

[HeroMystic]

If you think the Wolf boards were fast, you should've seen the Marth boards...

they're DONE with their match-ups.

 

[Kinzer]

I'll say, they aren't taking the Falcon seriously, they're more concerned about how much more manly Marth is (not really).

 

[YagamiLight]

Yeah, both the Wolf and Marth boards move fast, though I didn't exactly see any write-ups when I checked the Marth board. On the other hand, Marth mainers get +10 Smash Cred points from me, as they put it as "60-40" Marth vs Ike in the discussion index.

I can do Wolf whenever, probably today, unless I get sidetracked.

The real question is, who shall we do next?

 

[XACE-K]

Yeah, both the Wolf and Marth boards move fast, though I didn't exactly see any write-ups when I checked the Marth board. On the other hand, Marth mainers get +10 Smash Cred points from me, as they put it as "60-40" Marth vs Ike in the discussion index.

I can do Wolf whenever, probably today, unless I get sidetracked.

The real question is, who shall we do next?

I say Boozer or Konkey Dong.

Or Falcon.

 

[•Col•]

Yeah, both the Wolf and Marth boards move fast, though I didn't exactly see any write-ups when I checked the Marth board. On the other hand, Marth mainers get +10 Smash Cred points from me, as they put it as "60-40" Marth vs Ike in the discussion index.

Wow. That was really cool of them... xD And here I was thinking that the Marth board was completely composed of elitist *****s. Guess I was wrong. D:


Anyway... Earlier today, I was fighting against a computer Kirby... And he was giving me A LOT of trouble.... Granted, this is only my 2nd day of playing Brawl after like 3 months, but still... I've been like 3-stocking other characters, but I noticed I was REALLY struggling with Kirby... o_O His aerial mobility, small size, and moderate range really made it hard for me to get a hit on him... It may have been because I was approaching a lot, and once I started to let Kirby approach me instead, it did get a lot easier, but then he started spamming Final Cutter... xD

You can't even really jab cancel him either; He's too floaty and can just easily get out of it...

I dunno... It may just be me, but I think we should do Kirby next... o-o

 

[XACE-K]

I dunno... It may just be me, but I think we should do Kirby next... o-o

NO!!!!

If we do Kirby, all the Kirby series characters (and the 5th row) would be done. We should pick other series (and rows) characters before we finish one.

Spoiler

Yes, I'm strange like that.

 

[•Col•]

NO!!!!

If we do Kirby, all the Kirby series characters (and the 5th row) would be done. We should pick other series (and rows) characters before we finish one.

Spoiler

Yes, I'm strange like that.

Lulz, OCD... o_O

But seriously, what series HAVEN'T we done yet? And don't say something like Sonic or F-Zero... -_-

 

[HeroMystic]

Earthbound.

 

[SaltyKracka]

Ganondorf.