Idkkkk.... really spammy robs can be a bother. And robs are good at killing seperated nanas. Fair spam ***** a returning nana.. And down smash can seperate the climbers pretty easy. I am soo confused on these match-ups honestly... A lot of them seem to have no rhyme or reason. Like pikachu wins? But why? If everyones trying to prove how robs down smash is useless, pikachus slower laggier one should be considered even more useless. Rob has better aerials then pika!!! They can both spam and return from anywhere. Ledge camping works for em bothh. They both can **** a returning nana. And personally I think rob can do it better. He can fly around and fair and spike nanas. Plus robs range is better then pikachus. His range is close to marths(before you argue it has been tested, check his tilts and downsmash against a marth foward smash if you wanna test it). Pikachus range is trashh!!! So why does pikachu win against the ICs and rob lose?!?! Can someone explain this to me? It seems like bull. I know lain beat the top players of both characters. And idk, people seemed to think it looked harder against anther then ninjalink. But maybe ts cause anther was just more of a spammer?! Rob could spam just as well. Gyro is a beast. And laser recharges quickly! Are we judging it on two dif players or character limitations. Pikachu and rob play very similar. Not exact. But everyone can see the similarities. My question is why do we lose to pika and win to rob? I feel the same about marth, G&w, and MK. Those 3 match-up should be more similar to each other, but the numbers seem all over the place (mk is even but g&w is **** and marth is eh he kinda beats us... i don't get it). Alot of my thinking goes like this. The ICs can infinite every character... no ifs, ands, or butts about it. Take that as a given. I dont care if you can do it or not... the character can!!! Who can we guarentee grabs on, we win those match-ups. The easier, the higher the percent we win by. Who can escape being grabbed forever, we lose those matches (for the most part at least). Don't worry i understand that other things have to be taken into account as well. But our chain grabs are our best, strongest, and almost broken thing. It is what makes everyone fear the ICs. Often characters with disjointed hitboxes, good range, good aerial games, good comboability and good spam beat ICs. Its those who rely on ground games that have little that can stop us. Air game can just be controlled better, spaced better, easier to combo, and auto cancelled. Ground game has unavoidable lag and limited spacing, due to a characters inability to retreat. Take this into account. If they fight on the ground and are a ground opponent, aside from snake, there lag and/or power is bad enough to be punished, no matter who they are. Its the air fighters with turtles and swords that we should be wary of. An MK played perfectly can kick the ICs butts, no matter what that match up says. Same for marths and GWs. But Pikachus and robs, their good stuff is on the ground and their dead. Same goes for olimar! And who ever is writing a post just think about what I said before you decide who should win the match. I agree with lain that rob loses. Theoretically, he can't avoid the grab. He doesn't have enough. But I disagree with alot of the past judgements. I ask you lain, why does pika win and rob lose? Do you not see the similarities? r u biased cause u versed anther? Honestly? I dont see it. Pika and rob are on the same side of the winning or losing fence. And I hope most of you people listen to me, even though I am no big name, b/c I am rite about what I am saying in terms of this. And I reiterate, our matchups are all over the place on this forum. And I believe they are generally based on foolish opinions and biased matches. Why is marth and g&w match-ups harder than MK ones. Theoretically they have similar tools. Perhaps its just everyone verses a million MKS at their tournaments and they begin to seem easy. Hell, alot of scrubs play him, they even flock to him (even bad MKs can do ok at a local tourney). And all his little beginner tricks and nado spam are useless against the climbers if he is gonna space badly or lag after. The grabs are just freebies then. Its much rarer to find a G&w or a Marth(especially) at a tournament (even a bad one). I know lain beat M2K. But meep beat Neo. Just cause they win, it doesn't mean the match-up is all of the sudden in our favor. Once MKs get used to us, they should be back in the advantage (they have the tools to be). And thats what match-ups are about, what character has the "tools" to win. Also, it is my understanding, that later M2K came back and beat lain (maybe he just got used to the climbers). Its my opinion that some of already the discussed matchups be re-looked at. But anyway as for rob (60:40), ICs.
) . What you guys say though usually make sense and il abide by w/e makes sense. Sorto on the other hand makes 0 sense, and i refuse to read more than 1/4th through his posts until he learns proper formatting.
