Ice Climbers Matchup Thread*Closed*

[FrozenHobo]

good toon links can be annoying. same with warios. but we can still usually win. i don't know.... look on their threads for the matchup and just use that.

 

[meepxzero]

if you cant beat toonlink without grabs than it is gonna be an uphill battle. Hes one of the only chars u can go even with just fighting alone since you probably wont land a single grab against them if they camp you to hell.

Just a lot of shielding and waiting for good moments to attack (catching them in uairs when they jump over you) or grab (predicting their second jumps). Toonlinks major weakness is he has a laggy grab so he has to shield pressure the opponent a lot.

If all the toonlink does is platform camp and fulljump throwing bombs below. Expect a really long boring match.

its 50:50 at high level (both knowing wtf to do in the match up) and possibly 60:40 toonlink if u dont know the match up which im sure the majority of ic players dont know.

 

[A1lion835]

The kirby boards are now discussing the Ice Climbers! Any help would be appreciated.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=236395

 

[PhantomX]

Man, I can't wait for IC players that think they know what to do against Wario.

 

[Hylian]

if you cant beat toonlink without grabs than it is gonna be an uphill battle. Hes one of the only chars u can go even with just fighting alone since you probably wont land a single grab against them if they camp you to hell.

Just a lot of shielding and waiting for good moments to attack (catching them in uairs when they jump over you) or grab (predicting their second jumps). Toonlinks major weakness is he has a laggy grab so he has to shield pressure the opponent a lot.

If all the toonlink does is platform camp and fulljump throwing bombs below. Expect a really long boring match.

its 50:50 at high level (both knowing wtf to do in the match up) and possibly 60:40 toonlink if u dont know the match up which im sure the majority of ic players dont know.

>_>. I think TL's pretty easy honestly. I beat Jerm 2-0 at ozzfest and he used to beat my GW when I mained him.

 

[l!nk_aut]

i agree with meep.

i think you should always stay near tl. even if you get hit by an item he WILL make a mistake and than it´s your chance for a grab. thats how i play tl and it works... can´t beat him without cg´s.

 

[swordgard]

>_>. I think TL's pretty easy honestly. I beat Jerm 2-0 at ozzfest and he used to beat my GW when I mained him.

Agreed thar, the most spammiest toonlinks cant deal enough damage before you get a grab off.


6-4 ics imo. Then again, i havent played people like jash D=

 

[Kage Me]

My Toon Link experience consists of one Canadian girl. The match-up was very annoying, and good Toon Links should have that problem even more.

Not saying hard. Just annoying.

 

[meepxzero]

Man, I can't wait for IC players that think they know what to do against Wario.

i think i may know but yea i really havent played a really known wario.

 

[PhantomX]

I would looooooooove to play you. Come down to TX and CG all of us please?

 

[Fly_Amanita]

I played Futile a lot of times before he quit and I've also played Fiction a bit. I think I have a decent grasp on the match-up.

 

[PhantomX]

Of the matchup on stage. Warios are still pansies about going offstage pretty much everywhere (unless Fiction has changed recently).

P.S. Fiction used to talk to me about how easy the matchup was [when I got ***** by Melee1], and this was even after he'd played you, Fly.

 

[Fly_Amanita]

Fiction used to tell me that, too. Nowadays he says he thinks Wario has a slight advantage.

 

[Hylian]

It's really annoying how it's almost impossible to save nana once wario hits you :/. I don't mess up my CG's as much anymore and it's still really really hard.

 

[meepxzero]

I would looooooooove to play you. Come down to TX and CG all of us please?

Someday lol.

What does wario even do against ic px that makes you to believe they win?

 

[swordgard]

Someday lol.

What does wario even do against ic px that makes you to believe they win?

Your new sig made me lol :O



I still think PX overestimates the wario vs ics matchup.

 

[PhantomX]

I don't overestimate it, the majority of you guys UNDERESTIMATE it. I think it's no worse than 40:60 for the Climbers.

You can't get too complacent with nair brickwalling b/c the ICs are fully vulnerable to DACUSES while doing so (and even if Popo gets out, Nana will be hit away).

Wario vs ICs is very much a game of cat and mouse on stage, first person to make a wrong move gets *****. Wario's primary advantages against ICs lie in his ability to both pwn them blind when he gets them separated or offstage, and how easy SoPo is for him. Bair and Nair can hit them out of the squall hammer when offstage, nair can also be maneuvered around belay in order to hit just popo. His aerial control allows you to (should you get them in the position where Popo and Nana are offstage, but she's not close enough to help with recovery) footstool Popo, which is guaranteed death (though, funnily enough, if you Belay when we try to foostool Nana we get ***** XD). Wario can basically play without any worry against SoPo by just walking towards him and doing what he needs to on reaction. Shield is the safest option for Wario, as SoPo has no lethal grabs, and all it takes is a few grabs or bites to get SoPo to a perilous position (for bike edgeguarding or whatever).

SoPo is not very good offstage, meaning Wario is very capable of using up both his double jumps to keep poking Nana offstage, and then bike back low (unless you just waft her, I guess). Oh, and due to the crappy AI, just poking them repeatedly when they're together (with fairs or nairs), will oftentimes cause their recovery to malfunction and they'll die.

His strengths lie in gimping, of course, the hard part is getting the ICs offstage, without getting grabbed... which would be SO much easier if it wasn't for their considerably large vertical grab range.

 

[meepxzero]

i mean ic are mad easy to gimp outta their squal hammer. Thats the problem with a lotta ic players is they arent creative with how they recover and get *****. Squal hammer has a lotta ways to manuver away from the opponent. I feel like this match up is a worser version of DDD vs Wario, which everyone thinks DDD beats wario. We lose the grab range we have and end up dying a lot quicker. But we have more grab set ups (desynching), a better antiair game (uairs) to deal with wario, and if we land a grab ur pretty much dead.

I mean im not gonna judge wario off ****** slikvik all the time lol you shouldnt judge it off of beating hylian either. We definitely do needa play px i love proving people wrong about ic match ups ;p

 

[PhantomX]

Haha, is your record of proving people wrong as good as mine is? ^__^

I just remember that before Apex everyone kept telling me how badly Luigi ***** Wario... and I was the only person saying it was even at worst for him... and people told me GW ***** Wario, and that ROB is hard to harass and fart on offstage (lol), etc etc.

I donno about D3, I'm pretty iffy on it. A lot of the best D3s say it's like 55:45 for them only o_O D3 also has super heft and super armor, and a tremendous grab range. Desynching is less useful here than it is against most characters. Like, you can try to make a wall with Blizzard, and I have the ability to go around it and FF upair (just to give an example of how dangerous it is). Trust me when I say that I WANT my opponent desynched. Like, for the first minute of the match, I'll wait either until a desynch happens or my waft charges, and then proceed from there.

Hopefully Hylian gets a capture card soon, b/c it's easier to show things than describe them (and easier to believe them when you see them). Hell, for all we know he's doing something terribly wrong

 

[meepxzero]

i mean i typically desynch to set up for grabs or bait you to jump. I think the blizzard wall thing is stupid and it worked on dojo/m2k cuz they had no idea how to get around it. Trust me lol you dont want an ic that knows what they are doing with desynchs to desynch LOL or ull end up planking a **** load cuz im good at pressuring with it.

its even matchup in my book until i get massively ***** by a wario. I know he has a lotta potential vs ic, but i have yet to see it.

 

[PhantomX]

It's cool. Win like 3 more tournaments and then come down here for Oh Snap

I'm poor and part Latino so I don't know when I'll be able to afford another EC trip, haha.

P.S. You don't need to bait me to jump, I'm always jumping, lol.

 

[swordgard]

It's cool. Win like 3 more tournaments and then come down here for Oh Snap

I'm poor and part Latino so I don't know when I'll be able to afford another EC trip, haha.

P.S. You don't need to bait me to jump, I'm always jumping, lol.

You heard what you gotta do meep =D


How many tourneys must i win do good in so people finally come down to canada montreal D=



Also, i still believe its even due to the fact that ics nair outrange warios aerial for the most of the case and uptilt is very very usefull vs wario, so is pivot grabbing the dair.

 

[PhantomX]

It's impossible to come down to Canada, we all live below you

 

[Hylian]

You heard what you gotta do meep =D


How many tourneys must i win do good in so people finally come down to canada montreal D=



Also, i still believe its even due to the fact that ics nair outrange warios aerial for the most of the case and uptilt is very very usefull vs wario, so is pivot grabbing the dair.

Nair is really useful yeah. It's probably the move I use most against Wario. I don't see how utilt is useful at all when they just DI out and fsmash you >_>.

Pivot grabbing is nice and all, except when they bait it and then punish after you grab and nana dies. I still get them off reads though.

 

[swordgard]

It's impossible to come down to Canada, we all live below you

Lulz, montreal scene is fail whatsover except for holy and ally )=

 

[slikvik]

i mean ic are mad easy to gimp outta their squal hammer. Thats the problem with a lotta ic players is they arent creative with how they recover and get *****. Squal hammer has a lotta ways to manuver away from the opponent. I feel like this match up is a worser version of DDD vs Wario, which everyone thinks DDD beats wario. We lose the grab range we have and end up dying a lot quicker. But we have more grab set ups (desynching), a better antiair game (uairs) to deal with wario, and if we land a grab ur pretty much dead.

I mean im not gonna judge wario off ****** slikvik all the time lol you shouldnt judge it off of beating hylian either. We definitely do needa play px i love proving people wrong about ic match ups ;p

2-2 in tourney....peace

 

[momochuu]

That had a lot to do with the matchup.

 

[meepxzero]

just admit it slikvik ull never play wario vs me in tourney lol. Records dont matter i know i can beat your wario. We havent even played in months. When ive gotten tremendously better at the game.

I think records should be disregarded when the last time i played you i 2 stocked you first game and pretty much threw the game in brinstar because i knew i was gonna beat you on a neutral lol. Sorry if im sounding like a **** ur a cool guy slikvik but stop losing to people you should beat in tourney. I wanna play you again!

 

[Prawn]

just admit it slikvik ull never play wario vs me in tourney lol. Records dont matter i know i can beat your wario. We havent even played in months. When ive gotten tremendously better at the game.

I think records should be disregarded when the last time i played you i 2 stocked you first game and pretty much threw the game in brinstar because i knew i was gonna beat you on a neutral lol. Sorry if im sounding like a **** ur a cool guy slikvik but stop losing to people you should beat in tourney. I wanna play you again!

Meep wins.

 

[Sushi3]

Guys, no offense, but there's something fishy about the matchups. The matchups against mk and rob were both at huge disadvantages until after APEX. I think that as the metagame continues to progress to its' highest level, the matchups will get better. Also, the olimar boards have the matchup as 55:45 their favor, I believe, and mainly says to use the c-stick.

 

[FrozenHobo]

Guys, no offense, but there's something fishy about the matchups. The matchups against mk and rob were both at huge disadvantages until after APEX. I think that as the metagame continues to progress to its' highest level, the matchups will get better. Also, the olimar boards have the matchup as 55:45 their favor, I believe, and mainly says to use the c-stick.

actually olimar is our favor. blizzard is great pikmin stopper. plus he's easy to gimp so get him off the stage and he's dead.... hell, i can beat him without cgs....

 

[meepxzero]

me and lain are changing the match up ratios. Thats why they look like we either win everything or its even. I felt like stepping in and having a say and lain usually agrees with what i say. We both believe that a lot of match ups have changed to even because we know how to deal with the bs that people do all the time (mostly from mk and rob).

I dunno if ur saying match ups will get better meaning ic players lose, but i doubt itll ever happen. I dunno if lain uses ic as novelty (never plays them in friendlies) but i sure as hell dont. I let people try to learn my **** and even when they do its even at best.

olimar boards have never fought good ic. So they have no idea how badly we can gay them. The only way the match up is 55:45 is if they pull nothing but purples.

 

[slikvik]

just admit it slikvik ull never play wario vs me in tourney lol. Records dont matter i know i can beat your wario. We havent even played in months. When ive gotten tremendously better at the game.

I think records should be disregarded when the last time i played you i 2 stocked you first game and pretty much threw the game in brinstar because i knew i was gonna beat you on a neutral lol. Sorry if im sounding like a **** ur a cool guy slikvik but stop losing to people you should beat in tourney. I wanna play you again!

your right. I probably wont use wario. I'll just beat you with peach . as for records being disregarded, it would mean your basing the match-up on one set where i played the match-up horribly wrong and got grabbed when im clearly not supposed to get grabbed. its just annoying because somehow that one set turned into "****** slikvik all the time" so i feel obligated to remind you that I have beaten your ICs twice in tourney with you winning the most recent set

 

[meepxzero]

I dont even know why ur defending yourself unless you truly believe wario beats ic like PX says. I really dont care you beat me twice when my ic were awful. I remember the first tourney i used ic you destroyed me with peach. Alright you beat me twice. And like it was until the last time i played you i learned the wario match up cuz we played a ton of friendlies that week at bmore. I have to do way more than grab its just i pressure you in the air with uairs so much that you mysteriously land in my grabs.

Unless you have something to say about the match up just stay out of the boards <_<. I guess in your mind were equals I guess its watever floats your boat.

 

[swordgard]

me and lain are changing the match up ratios. Thats why they look like we either win everything or its even. I felt like stepping in and having a say and lain usually agrees with what i say. We both believe that a lot of match ups have changed to even because we know how to deal with the bs that people do all the time (mostly from mk and rob).

I dunno if ur saying match ups will get better meaning ic players lose, but i doubt itll ever happen. I dunno if lain uses ic as novelty (never plays them in friendlies) but i sure as hell dont. I let people try to learn my **** and even when they do its even at best.

olimar boards have never fought good ic. So they have no idea how badly we can gay them. The only way the match up is 55:45 is if they pull nothing but purples.

Its one of the few matchups were blizzwall is a real brickwall lol, making it 7-3.

Also, lol, get ***** slikvik =D

 

[slikvik]

I dont even know why ur defending yourself unless you truly believe wario beats ic like PX says. I really dont care you beat me twice when my ic were awful. I remember the first tourney i used ic you destroyed me with peach. Alright you beat me twice. And like it was until the last time i played you i learned the wario match up cuz we played a ton of friendlies that week at bmore. I have to do way more than grab its just i pressure you in the air with uairs so much that you mysteriously land in my grabs.

Unless you have something to say about the match up just stay out of the boards <_<. I guess in your mind were equals I guess its watever floats your boat.

yep. I will stay off the ICs boards, as long as my name isn't mentioned along with false statements. As for being equals or whatever, you're the one with the massive ego. Don't be surprised if I humble you. This is my last post here

 

[meepxzero]

lol i shouldnt do ic ratios anymore i obviously think ic favor every match up LOL.

 

[momochuu]

Talking about the matchup would be amazing.

I'd put an input in, but apparently you can't discuss Wario vs. ICs unless you've played like, every good Wario player to ever exist.

 

[meepxzero]

yea i agree. But really the match up is baiting wario to jump (not like you dont have to do that already...) and uair him a lot or nair if hes short hopping. If he short hops you can grab him in midair with pivot grab or regular grab. Its just reading his jump pattern all warios have this. His airdodge isnt that great because uair sticks out so long and he only has 2 jumps unlike mk who has 5.

I guess the only thing you have to look out for is getting gimped really easy as PX was stating. If they try to bike you most of the time you can shield grab them out of it unless if they tilt their bike up, but then you can probably bair outta shield and hit them off.

If you dont mess up ur infinites this match up imo is slightly our advantage. 55:45

were the best anti air character in this game. The only people who beat us that are above are peach's dair and lucario's dair.

 

[PhantomX]

Dang, EC is so mean to each other. Where are all the hugs and love?

Also, meep. I just thought I'd point out, to be a nazi, that your ability to read players' jumps like a book has nothing to do with matchups, lol (that's player skill advantage, not character advantage ).

Feel free to speak your mind, Kawaii, as long as you don't mention ICs having an easy time getting back on stage, I won't chew you out