Ice Climbers Matchup Thread*Closed*

[lain]

It doesn't happen very often. Pikachu doesn't have to land anywhere around you because he can just QAC to the other side of the stage or the ledge -_-

 

[Sorto]

Pikachu Match-up
Pikachu's Disadvantages:
-His downsmash has enough lag that if you shield it, it should allow for a free grab.
-His aerial are awful and force him to get in close. If predicted, they allow for a pretty easy grab.
-Thunder (if used... which can be rare) is easy to shield and get a free grab
-Any badly spaced or predicted move, since pikachu lacks range, can open him up for a grab.
-ICs have higher priority in most cases.
-Pikachu does not have a safe approach.
-To seperate the ICs Pikachu has to approach.
-ICs tilts beat Pikachu's tilts and air game.

Pikachu's Advantages:
-Down smash and thunder easily seperate the ICs
-Has a variety of powerful moves (thunder and foward smash) that can easily gimp a wandering nana at low percents.
-Pretty good spam that can stop desynched ICs in there tracks.
-Doesn't have to approach
-Can easily avoid a close up confrontation because of his quick speed and QAC.
-Foward smash outranges most of the ICs moves (all except down-b) and is hard to punish if it is spaced well.

Over All: 55-45 (In Ice Climbers favor)
Pikachu can stay at a distance and spam very well against the ICs (which every character seems to try to do against them). But if the ICs get in close on Pikachu, he can be in big trouble. His only decent close-up ground attack against the ICs is foward smash, but even that has a reasonable amount of punishable start-up. Any other close up attack can be punished with a shield grab. If the ICs become seperated Pikachu can easily gimp Nana, even at low percentages (thunder or foward smash). The problem with that is, Pikachu has to come in relatively close to seperate the ICs. Pikachu does not have a good approach, but he can make up for a lot of that with his relatively good spam (but spam is still limited). The match-up becomes, can Pikachu seperate the ICs and kill Nana before you can punish his limited range and approach with a grab.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Just letting you know that the Ganon boards are about to start disccusing you guys, in their match-up thread. Everyone thought that this was a impossible match-up for Ganon, bieng the easiest character to grab in the game, but that soon changed after watching this match. So come and give your input on the match-up.

 

[Kage Me]

**** looks like lain has found her nana.... lol

i needa find me one -_-

Wait, lain's a female?

...I'm so using this against my "girls can't play Brawl" friends.

 

[Dev2000]

Lain is female? wow thats something i wouldnt expect right away
Like kage me said i'm gonna use it the same way as him hahaha
altough if you play against kawaii it already proves the opposite
They CAN

 

[Fly_Amanita]

Lain's quite the lady indeed.

this match

Wifi is not the ICs' best friend.

 

[meepxzero]

rofl if anyone read his post b4 he was talkin bout bein occupied by his lady friend XD to help us with pikachu match up.

 

[Kage Me]

rofl if anyone read his post b4 he was talkin bout bein occupied by his lady friend XD to help us with pikachu match up.

...Yeah, I did read that. I figured she was a lesbian.

 

[l!nk_aut]

Just letting you know that the Ganon boards are about to start disccusing you guys, in their match-up thread. Everyone thought that this was a impossible match-up for Ganon, bieng the easiest character to grab in the game, but that soon changed after watching this match. So come and give your input on the match-up.

it looks like kawaii bunny was sandbagging lol. rly... not a good fight.

 

[momochuu]

Lmao, that match was laggy as hell. I was really angry that I even used my ICs in that. If it's that laggy I usually go Kirby or something.

...Wow johns, lol.

 

[Teh Future]

guys Id recommend never going ICs against Gannon he can kill you in like three moves!!!!!!!

I usually counterpick with Falcon.

 

[lain]

I usually just kill myself. Oh and PIka stuff to come. >>

 

[Snipa4800]

Lain Pikachu match up info please , theres gonna be a really good pika at my tourney saturday =X.
I don't think its even worth desyncing in this match up ._.;;

 

[gantrain05]

Lain Pikachu match up info please , theres gonna be a really good pika at my tourney saturday =X.
I don't think its even worth desyncing in this match up ._.;;

you should play fox vs that pikachu, i hear its a really good matchup.

also, when playing a T-jolt spammy pikachu, whats the best way past the spam to actually get some damage on him? the ones i play are way too spammy and evasive.

 

[Snipa4800]

you should play fox vs that pikachu, i hear its a really good matchup.

Yea , its like 90-10 in foxes favor X_X;;.
But , im not using swiper mccloud =X

 

[lain]

Desyncing is not helpful in this matchup since his thunderjolts go through blizzard.

This matchup really involves a lot of running around, avoiding his ****, and shielding his moves.

You have to play against Pika like he's MK, and poke at him with aerials until he makes a mistake and gets grabbed, or until he can just die from an aerial or smash or w/e.

This is a ****ing annoying matchup for IC. I would have to say it's even, or maybe 55:45 in pika's favor.

Patience is the best tip I can give you.

Of course, I'm talking about the highest levels of play here (Anther).

 

[Kage Me]

Pikachu... even?

o_0;

 

[Sorto]

Idk Lain, I would say slightly in the climbers favor (55:45, but IC favor). The spam is annoying. But who doesn't try to camp the climbers. And to really do any good damage to the climbers (seperate Nana or Kill them both) pikachu has to come in. And since for the most part his range is lacking, he has to come very close in. And when he is close in, most of his moves become punishable with a grab due to their minimal range a decent lag(tilts, down smash and up smash). I mean well spaced aerials can't be grabbed easily, but the ICs priority and range can wreck his air game and if you predict his aerials well you can get a grab when he is landing. So since Pikachu has to come in to do any real damage and have any chance of killing you, I would give the ICs slight favor in this match-up. Because coming in against them is dangerous and its not like Pika is a marth where coming in still means being very far out of their grab range.

 

[TR-ZeRo9]

Hi Guys.

Im writing an IC's guide in Spanish (my language) and im on the matchups right now.

So i would like to ask your toughts, feelings, and any info on King DeDeDe i know its a pretty easy match but i never (never) played a good D3 and the ones i played are really Noobs so i would like your info

Tomorrow i would Write info on pikachu.

THX

TR-ZeRo9.

 

[JustNoOne]

Idk, I think it's 50-50.

Pikachu can like screw us up and desync us with like... Fair and Bair and we have to desync like... Ice Blocks if we want to desync since like Lain said, Thunderbolt goes through our Blizzard.

 

[Sorto]

My thought process is like this:
From what I know, we wreck Falco. Right?
And why is this?
- Spam can't kill us (even tho it still stops desynching and is annoying)
- ICs have higher priority and for the most part better range.
- Tilts and smashes are punishable by shield grabs.
- He has limited range and has to come in to do any real damage (kill Nana or both Climbers).
- His Aerial Game is so-so.
- A single IC has a chaingrab on him (limited, but can still rack on some percent).
- Falco can't chaingrab us (even though he can do it to many other characters of the cast and it has become a large part of his metagame)
Aren't these flaws strikingly similar to Pikachus?

Except Pikachu has a few advantages on Falco, atleast in terms of this match-up.
- Downsmash can seperate well (but is still punishable with a sheild grab)
- Thunder is a good way to kill a seperated Nana at very low percents (but again easily punishable).
*And in terms of avoiding the ICs Pikachu has QAC and ledge stalling. But Falco can yeild a similar result with intelligent Side-Bs and ledge stalling of his own.

So overall I would say slight IC advantage or possibly even?

 

[momochuu]

ICs vs Pikachu is not in our favor. If you think it's in our favor, you need to fight good Pikachus.

 

[NinjaFoxX]

not in out favor.
now olimar on the other hand....

but thats probably wrong xD

 

[Sorto]

It is true. I haven't versed that many good Pikachus. The only one I versed, that I know was really good, was Rafa, Wes's doubles partner. And he was decent, didn't leave himself very open. A lot of mixing it up with aerials, tilts, Qacs, t-jolts and all that. But every time he came in close with downsmashes or tilts and I predicted him right, it cost him a stock. Overall, I found the match rather easy, especiall for one that was supposed to be against such a good player. I am really a nobody when it comes to the ICs. I am pretty good, can chain everyone 0-death and am rather accurate with it, even had this local place, Castle Golf, feel the need to put a ban on the IC chain grabs and had "(sorry Sorto)" written next to the ruling, but its not like I am a pro or anything. And i think a big part of me winning that match against Rafa, was just character matchup. I mean you should of seen the shock of his crew when they found out he had lost to me. I mean, come on, he is ****in Wes's doubles partner and he lost to a random unknown IC player (and he lost pretty badly). It's not like I am not a good player, but I think a lot of it had to with the fact that Pikachu is just wayyy to open for grabs (no matter how good the player is). Besides I am not saying it is a large advantage I was thinking something between like 60:40 (IC Favor) and 50:50.

 

[The Truth!]

Even or possibly slight pika advantage. And the matchup is just as annoying for pika .

 

[meepxzero]

lol anthers pikachu is scary... If you dont know the match up good luck >_>a.

as for olimar that match up is 70:30 ic lol. We **** him for free. Just imagine falco vs DDD (except laser camp we desynch blizzard camp), but add in the fact we can pretty much cg them at any percent.

 

[Sorto]

I have heard conflicting things about this match-up. And I can't believe its as big of an advantage as 70-30. Thats pretty ridiculous. Maybe thats the match-up if he has only white Pikmn or somethin.

Olimar Advantages:
- Range, Range, Range
- Foward smash had very little start-up, very long range, and the hitbox stays out longer then olimar is lagging (hitbox lasts till frame 47, Olimar is able to attack again at frame: 39)
- Downsmash can easily seperate the IC.
- Grabs are more useful against the climbers then most other characters grabs due to its long range, minimal lag, quick back throw, and pummel attack that hits nearby enemies.
- Practically every attack is disjointed.
- Minimal lag on all of his smashes.
- Downsmash and upsmash space very well and are hard to approach.
- U-air and Upsmash are good at juggling ICs (especially wandering Nanas).
- Sheilding (non-perfect) his smashes won't help you, in terms of getting in on him.
- Opponents with good aerials are his biggest weakness and ours aren't great or a standard method of approach.
- Foward smash outranges blizzard.

Olimars Disavantages:
- Spam becomes close to useless and a liability (not enough pikmin to respond could lead to empty attacks and easy IC grabs)
- Has no grab armor frames (unlike every other character in the game). This means, he can be grabbed while sending out a grab, even if the pikmin has latched onto one of the ICs (as long as they have not been retracted).
- Can't stop desynched climbers very easily, because his projectile doesn't have hitstun (except purples)
- ICs have higher priority and can go through any pikmin attack.
- Most of his aerials have decent lag and their disjointed hitbox isn't too large (easy to approach).
- Tilts are laggy and useless (free grabs).
- All his smashes stay out very long and are punishable as long as you avoid or perfect sheild the small moving hitbox.
- His foward smash hitbox move slow enough that you can perfect sheild it with both climbers if timed right (possibly needs some desynching).
- We can infinite grab him (haha, like every other character)
- Solo IC can chain grab him to around 30%.

Overall: Im still not sure? From my experience I would have to say it's somewhat even. Not sure who is in the advantage. Somewhere between 60:40 and 40:60.

 

[meepxzero]

olimar cant do jack if you desynch the entire time. The most they can do is full jump into you and nair, but you can shield grab it and cg him. If they throw purple pikmin just fsmash to death. After all the pikmin die u can go for the cgs if you really want. It is an unwinnable match if the ic player camps like a falco against a DDD.

 

[Sorto]

What Olimar lets all his pikmin die? That is never gonna happen. Not when he can pull out 6 fresh ones extremely quick. And are you sure his grabs (i no its a weird strategy) are completely useless against us when we desynch. They can go through any attack (I no from playing as him, I do it to nooby mk who tornado too close to the ground). Pikmin can't die during a grab. Grabs have like infinite priority and really good range.
Honestly I don't play enough Olimars to know the match up from experience. But 70:30 is pratically unwinnable. Its like in melee, IC vs peach. At times, against good IC, it may be more intelligent to pick peach(even if you don't have much experience playing as her), then to pick your main. Are you truly saying this match-up is that disgusting? That players who can't fight olimar would say, I am just gonna pick IC, cause he can't beat that. I mean thats oversimplifing the match-up, but you get the idea, is it really that much in our favor? Olimars Range just seems like it could be an issue. Enough to have it avoid being that impossible. You no? 70:30 is a big statement to make, I atleast gotta play devils advocate and give it an argument.

 

[meepxzero]

hes olimars best counter even worse than metaknight. I highly doubt the grabs outrange the blizzard and its not like olimar would have time to throw period. Because u grab one the other blizzards them. I have yet to lose to an olimar, but yah ive only played pyronic star.

It seems like a lost cause if the ic does the right things. We nullify olimars camping grab game.

 

[CO18]

So what Ive surmised is that IC's are the perfect 2ndary for ddd lol. Lain was way ahead of the game. Too bad im too lazy to learn how to do their cgs.

 

[momochuu]

Just spam desynched Blizzard against Olimar. So amaziing.

 

[Snipa4800]

We nullify olimars camping grab game.

Nuff said , my bro plays an amazing olimar.
Ic's **** em :3

 

[Kage Me]

hes olimars best counter even worse than metaknight. I highly doubt the grabs outrange the blizzard and its not like olimar would have time to throw period. Because u grab one the other blizzards them. I have yet to lose to an olimar, but yah ive only played pyronic star.

It seems like a lost cause if the ic does the right things. We nullify olimars camping grab game.

A pivot grab just narrowly outranges Blizzard. But we **** him anyway ;D

 

[lain]

Spam blizzard and sideb, ***** pikmin.

come at olimar at a diagonal fashion, so his fsmash and usmash don't hit. then grab.

 

[Teh Future]

All Olimar has to do is grab them and bthrow. Upsmash kills at like 100% and hits extremely easy. Olimar can **** Ice Cimbers just as bad as ICs **** him. Not to mention that he outspams us so we have approach. Squall is dumb, since he can pivot grab you every time for a free seperation.

Basically it seems like to win you just need to spam desynced blizzards until olimar takes to the air, in which we **** him, but Ive yet to get it down, I hate Olimar with a passion, his stage control is honestly like metaknight x10.

 

[Fly_Amanita]

Squall hammer isn't a free pivot grab for Olimar. If you squall hammer at him and see him run backwards, you can hover just high enough such that you go over the grab.

 

[Kage Me]

Spam blizzard and sideb, ***** pikmin.

come at olimar at a diagonal fashion, so his fsmash and usmash don't hit. then grab.

He'll use Pikmin Chain if you approach diagonally.

 

[Teh Future]

Squall hammer isn't a free pivot grab for Olimar. If you squall hammer at him and see him run backwards, you can hover just high enough such that you go over the grab.

They'll just keep running until you land on the ground, squall isnt faster than olimar's dash...

 

[meepxzero]

lulz what olimars do i have to 2-3 stock to prove this match up is hopeless for them.

fyi if they jump into your blizzard at low percents you pretty much have a free grab and steal their jump.