Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

[Samba]

ledgehop d-air. is the hitbox for that move high enough above ganon's hitbox to hit with while remaining somewhat safe below the level?
naturally if you missed you'd get killed without effort, having to use your up-B, but despite that... anyone have an answer?

 

[Divinokage]

No you can't do that unless you keep the downair off-stage, if you go on-stage after the ledge hop then the hitbox won't come out.. and obviously going off-stage like that is unsafe unless the opponent is already off stage and you go for the finish.. I guess..

 

[Samba]

I see a lot of ledge dashing with ganon at high level play. I'm not that great at it myself and would like to improve. I often just air dodge into the wall by accident or land on the stage with my shield up instead of dashing. what can I do to improve? is there possibly some frame-by-frame information on it someone could link me to, or just tell me?

 

[DannyG]

Since I've been practicing ledgedashing recently I'll comment on this. I feel as though the timing is closer to the end of the animation (right before you land) than the beginning. Of course, when practicing I say use the motto 'better safe than sorry', by which I mean it's better to ledgehop shield than air-dodge to fail. Eventually you'll get the timing, and if you happen to miss it you'll shield instead of wasting a stock.

 

[Superspright]

Ledge-dashing isn't too hard. Basically you smack the stick down, either lightly or hard if you prefer, but the important thing is to immediately shift your stick toward the stage [sooner the better]. That's probably the hardest part to do. Timing the waveland isn't so hard once you can at least get onto the stage from a ledge-drop. Just keep practicing that. Once you have that, practice ledge dashing. You have to crawl before you walk. You wouldn't try to waveland platforms before learning wavedashing (or maybe you would, but I think wavedashing is easier), and you shouldn't learn to ledge-dash before you can ledge-drop and get up on the stage.

The timing is tight at the start (moving the control stick from down to the stage) but after that the timing where you can waveland is actually pretty big. The moment Ganon's spinning body is on the stage you can waveland. At any point. He's never high enough that his airdodge won't move him on the ground. After you get that down you should try reverse ledge-dashing. That is much harder, but it has a similar timing. You just need to include a quick flick back (it feels like a dash-dance). You just need to get onto the stage a little farther for that.

My 30 cents.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Since your ledgedash has a ton of invincibility, wouldn't it be fine to do all your mixups post-ledgedash?

example a string of mixups could be:
ledgedash - jab
ledgedash - roll
ledgedash - sh back fair
ledgedash - jump - platform waveland
ledgedash - back roll (towards edge)

Since you are invincible the whole of your ledgedash and then some, these things threaten your opponent in different ways while leaving you vulnerable in different ways. As long as you don't get too habitual with your post ledgedash options, you should be safe doing it every single time.

 

[Superspright]

sh bair seems better to me. Or, at least feels better. Even ftilt after ledge-dashing is better than shing and then fair. But pretty much only the jab (pivoted or not) and maybe the tilts are good for a mixup. Your invincibility is long up by the time you jump.

 

[Samba]

really helpful and informative, thanks gentlemen

 

[yummynbeefy]

So im having alot of trouble vs the following characters

Falco - Its mostly the lasers and getting ***** in shield but i would like an overview of the matchup
Luigi - Its just an awkward match for me

any tips?

 

[Samba]

what I like to do vs falco is play near the edge, so if he's putting on loads of pressure I can always fall back onto the edge for some invincibility. plus if you DO happen to powershield a laser and get a grab in there or some other attack that would otherwise hit him offstage, he's finished. all this assuming you're on FD. if it's a stage with platforms, camp until you see an opening.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

sh bair seems better to me. Or, at least feels better. Even ftilt after ledge-dashing is better than shing and then fair. But pretty much only the jab (pivoted or not) and maybe the tilts are good for a mixup. Your invincibility is long up by the time you jump.

so don't use the fair to try to win via invincibility? ledgedash sh fair would be an excellent choice if your opponent has been conditioned to respect your ledgedash range and instead of pressuring you he decides to stand closer to the center of the stage. He is no longer threating to hit you as soon as your invincibility ends but rather is trying to zone you out or wait for a ground move (which are ganon's most vulnerable moves).


if he continues to stand right where your ledgedash ends, of course it is better to jab/grab and win with your invincibility.

 

[Divinokage]

You can also backjump fair and attempt a ledge cancel into something else of your choice.. like another fair or grab the ledge again.. it's extremely good defensively. I think Linguini would agree too.

 

[yummynbeefy]

luigi is also a ***** sometimes D: anyone got advice on him

but the falco advice is needed much much more than the weegee advice

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

You can also backjump fair and attempt a ledge cancel into something else of your choice.. like another fair or grab the ledge again.. it's extremely good defensively. I think Linguini would agree too.

omg i think i just ****ed

 

[A2ZOMG]

So im having alot of trouble vs the following characters

Falco - Its mostly the lasers and getting ***** in shield but i would like an overview of the matchup
Luigi - Its just an awkward match for me

any tips?

Vs Falco I feel is a lot better if you're good at combo DIing and really careful about teching. It's a matchup that you'll either get killed quickly in, or one where you can survive pretty obnoxiously long.

Really though...there isn't actually much to do against Falco, besides waiting. Mix up WD out of shields with rolls to escape pressure, and just try to be conservative with spacing until you get in a good hit. Powershielding lasers helps a lot of course. If you get in a grab, techchase F-air.

Vs Luigi is pretty simple as long as you don't do anything too reckless. He really only has WDing to get in, though he kinda has Sheik and Marth juggles and combos on you which hurt. Smart use of tilts will help a lot in keeping him honest about his approaches. When he grabs, DI towards him always. Rush him down if he's cornered. Anti-airing him and juggling him is generally easy, and edgeguarding him is as simple as hitting him out of his recovery most of the time.

 

[DannyG]

For luigi all I ever do is tilts and backjump fairs to keep him wary of WD'ing in constantly. Platforms help a lot because his horizontal air movement is filthy, so if you can get onto a platform he won't be able to chase you easily and you can escape and get into a more favorable position.

 

[DippnDots]

I was just playing luigi earlier tonight, he's so much fun.

 

[-ACE-]

That's why I second him lol. Luigi and ganon actually have some similarities, great aerial game but easily gimped. MID TIER MADNESS.

 

[DippnDots]

down-b recovery lol

If only ganon had luigi's nair, except, with his legs

 

[-ACE-]

Oh good lord... That would be epic haha. Not enough to make him broken but he'd def be a candidate for high tier.

 

[DippnDots]

ace we need to play sometime man. Don't go quitting any time soon, it probably wont happen for a while

edit:

omg i think i just ****ed

I'm trying really hard to figure out what got censored o_O i think i need to sleep

second edit:
it just hit me... not literally

 

[-ACE-]

Sadly, I'm going to quit maining ganon... and playing smash altogether.

























When I'm 40! LOOOL

 

[G. Vice]

Sadly, I'm going to quit maining ganon... and playing smash altogether.



When I'm 40! LOOOL

Lol, okay so I totally just looked for the "like" button on this comment and it wasn't there =p

 

[Samba]

you can't quit smash, it's a way of life. a philosophy one follows that dictates the principles that define you as a person... your knowledge of this path changes and grows throughout time... smash is a metaphor for life.
that having been said, I'm mad a captain falcon. anyone have any life-advice? besides the forward tilt upward. it's just still really easy for me to get grabbed and then rectally penetrated while in hitstun...
ganon's spot-dodge I don't feel is an adequate defense against such violations of personal space...

 

[-ACE-]

Yo samba, check it

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=296190

 

[kupo15]

I think spot dodges has its uses. Not only is it good to spot dodge falcon's side b but you could do a spot dodge to CC as a mix up

 

[Samba]

you pro ganon mains have your work cut out for you with all us noobs getting wrecked by everyone but zelda and coming to you for advice. if this is not either what you live for, or a source of income, I'd find it exasperating to say the least hahah!!
appreciate everything I've been told on the ganon boards (is this legal to post even though it has nothing to do with actually winning with ganon?), keep it up you guys.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

i hope me beating armada in pools gets recorded

but my pool has 3 nc people, so i may be the one to get moved.

 

[G. Vice]

I'm so excited to see some Ganons going to Pound 5. That's awesome. Do some damage for this one who has to stay at home in nursing school!

Also, how exciting is the fact that IHSB vs Renth is gonna go down in Pool 26? I've played Jack many times, and that Samus is ridiculous! Good luck to Renth, he's got his hands full getting past all those tricks and slick mindgames.

 

[spider_sense]

My n!gga Renth is going to beast. lol Kid is mad technical and smart. Wish I could have gone to Pound 5, but I'm definitely going to the next ROM and Genesis 2. I need to start saving my quarters.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

you're goin to G2 jason? man i wish i was. don't think i'll make it though. wish you were coming up for pound.

 

[Divinokage]

I wish I was going to pound, you have no idea how much im raging right now lol.

 

[Renth]

I wish I was going to pound, you have no idea how much im raging right now lol.

LOL WHAT!?

I'm so excited to see some Ganons going to Pound 5. That's awesome. Do some damage for this one who has to stay at home in nursing school!

Also, how exciting is the fact that IHSB vs Renth is gonna go down in Pool 26? I've played Jack many times, and that Samus is ridiculous! Good luck to Renth, he's got his hands full getting past all those tricks and slick mindgames.

Out of my pool, I fear him more than anyone else.

My n!gga Renth is going to beast. lol Kid is mad technical and smart. Wish I could have gone to Pound 5, but I'm definitely going to the next ROM and Genesis 2. I need to start saving my quarters.

Mad love and respect Jason.

you're goin to G2 jason? man i wish i was. don't think i'll make it though. wish you were coming up for pound.

Find me at pound, play me.

 

[Pawls to the Wall]

I'll be at the Hyatt by 2 pm today. Look for the guy in the sig if you want to ditto

 

[-ACE-]

I hope I get laid off tomorrow so I can go as a spectator lol.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

paul, I will def find you. I should be there round 7.

 

[-ACE-]

I hope I get laid off tomorrow so I can go as a spectator lol.

Wow, it actually happened. I should see you guys tomorrow afternoon.

 

[spider_sense]

Wow, it actually happened. I should see you guys tomorrow afternoon.

Rofl I hope by "laid off" they let you take the day off. I wish they had streaming going down, but I want to see some recorded matches from all of you going.

 

[Palpi]

I am just going to watch the recorded matches without knowing the outcome so it is surprising to me. I guess I won't be on smashboards for a few weeks... haha

 

[-ACE-]

Rofl I hope by "laid off" they let you take the day off. I wish they had streaming going down, but I want to see some recorded matches from all of you going.

Lol I'll go back to work in like a week or so, guaranteed. Otherwise I'd be pissed haha