Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

[kupo15]

The illusion at head height is something that ganon's metagame hasn't caught up to quite yet. Pp and mango do it a lot and I pretty much never see it punished properly. They go just high enough so that jab's hitbox won't connect. Yay did it to you first game. We gotta start using that up-angled ftilt more imo.

There is another option against the head height side b that many over look and its super easy if you are used to it. DUCKING! lol

If you crouch, the side b should go right over your head. Its not crucial to always punish a side b directly (although the reward is greater of course) but if you aren't positioned to do so then trying anyway is a lost cause. His side b has tons of lag from that head height which should give you plenty of time to catch up.

Here is a good idea, duck the side b, punish with the 2nd kick (only) of the dsmash. Doing so will send them back off stage at a low angle backwards

 

[Divinokage]

Low angle? That is assuming they bad DI though.

 

[kupo15]

Not really. The second kick of the dsmash has a low angle if hit by itself. I "think" its lower than uair or fair at the very least. Bad DI can make it send like West coast knee. The cool thing about the dsmash is that its not use that often so correct DI should be a challenge given its odd properties

 

[-ACE-]

Yeah kupo, you can crouch and say, "no thanks, I'd rather not take advantage if this ko opportunity" our you can surprise him and most likely low angle ftilt his next phantasm attempt for a ko if the first tilt doesn't di the trick. Of course if you aren't in proper position you shouldn't do it looool, I'd dare to say that is obvious. And If they are at high damage, sure, just crouch and bair the landing lag for a ko, but the ftilt will give you a chance to ko at almost any damage. You will also rarely have time to punish with d smash like that.

 

[kupo15]

Uhhh, I know that hitting them out of it is preferred and more rewarding (I clearly stated that did I not?) And we were talking about dealing with side bs above jab range so what is this talk about a low ftilt? I was saying what you can do if you aren't in position to react to a head high side b. Since ganon is rather tall, once you duck the side s a dsmash should hit. Or if youd rather you could probably side b under the phantasm which will also hit him out of his side b and send him off the stage backwards without a jump.

I'm just stating that there are other options people seem to be neglecting if you aren't positioned to do the better edgeguarding moves. I never said that you should purposely avoid the better option

 

[spider_sense]

Chris I just watched your match vs Yayuhzz. He baited the **** outta you man. You have to abuse shield grabs so it make him think twice when he feels he has immediate pressure. Learn to bait back and use it his tactic against him and I guarantee more promising results. However, I did see you playing much smarter in the next match, using uair to cover his aerial options, and spacing fairs and using the platforms to your advantage. Next time use more tilts and try to go SDI shield grab his dair, also cc his nair approaches and falling bairs with a cc jab or dtilt. Bait him right the **** back kid. I definitely see you beating Yahuz, and I don't care how good he is vs Ganon.

Also I saw you vs that Marth. lol You ****ed him up nasty! lmao good stuff on that.

 

[Linguini]

ccing good for -> fox, falcon, falco?
not that good for -> peach, sheik

can't think of a use against: jiggs, mario bros, samus, other ganons, etc.

generally there are ways around it, even for fox and falcon, by doing their moves later, or just plain grabbing you instead.

False, CCing is useful in every single matchup. As you said it's risky vs peach but dtilt setups with it can be effective. VS sheik it's extremely important, especially in terms of beating out sheiks tilts and scooping up aerials.

Stating you can get around it is pretty obvious lol. Anything in this game can be beaten, just depends when you choose to use an attack.

The illusion at head height is something that ganon's metagame hasn't caught up to quite yet. Pp and mango do it a lot and I pretty much never see it punished properly. They go just high enough so that jab's hitbox won't connect. Yay did it to you first game. We gotta start using that up-angled ftilt more imo.

I usually try to scare spacies into not doing this. While still keeping a good amount of space between you and the ledge you can also punish the side b with a fair if you position correctly.

Double jumps are great for baiting the side b and a ground jab can be pulled out at intervals. Bairs kinda fvck side-b'ing up lol.

Ftilt is beast but doesn't come out too fast so that can be inconvenient to implement too much; although it is a good option.

 

[-ACE-]

what is this talk about a low ftilt?

After you land the high ftilt they may be able to phantasm again and this would usually be your best option.

Since ganon is rather tall, once you duck the side s a dsmash should hit.

Nah. If you're close to the ledge they will land out of range of the dsmash. If you're not close to the ledge, falco would be a fool not to just take the free, unpressured ledge you just gave him (and get onstage unpunished), phantasm would be way too easy to punish.

 

[DippnDots]

Sometimes when edge guarding falco i find that while im trying to read his recovery he begins the illusion and its too late for me to ftilt. When this happens i try to...

wavedash back into cc'ing the illusion, you can punish all his options from there and can most likely land a turn around grab if you want.

If you're feeling balsy skip the cc and wavedash back jab -> tech chase (jab -> fair on missed tech or in place) The jab puts them in a tight spot because if they tech in, they're your *****, if they tech in place, you can fair, and if they tech away they're back on the edge of the stage and you're closer to the middle.

ideally you dont want him to get his DJ back but if you squandered that oppertunity, dont let it get to you and keep the advantage you still have

 

[-ACE-]

I pretty much hit A when I hear the "ping" noise of the phantasm and it works like a charm. *shrugs*

 

[BigD!!!]

roll backwards

 

[Samba]

while playing ganon, I often use the Z-shield. I find it helps with spacing against characters that aren't fox (or anyone of like speed). now I'm not a high level player, but assuming I were, how well would this tactic work against others of my skill caliber?

 

[Divinokage]

Z-shield? The light shield?

 

[Samba]

yeah, the light shield.

 

[Divinokage]

I guess it would be good if the opponent is trying to space an aerial on you but then you have no time to reaction sometimes so you light shield instead to remove pressure.

 

[Samba]

so you'd say it's situational rather than something that should be included in an overall strategy?

 

[Palpi]

I think people use Z shield to do the marth gay. I guess it could be used in other situations as well.

 

[Divinokage]

Hmm.. ya I think so. Oh ya the light shield edgeguard vs Marth is ok as well. It's usually used in specific situations.

 

[Samba]

the marth gay trick, I've seen it used against the doc too while trying to recover with the pills. that's the only other time I've seen it used. but, hypothetical scenario time...
me versus a character with a tether grab, let's just say samus. samus is recovering, I'm on the edge, and samus uses the tether and hits the edge. would it be possible to use the light sheild, DI it bown-back so that the tether hits the shield, making me auto-fall onto the edge? so that when samus pulls herself in she doesn't grab the edge, she flies past it allowing me to do an edge-attack?

 

[Bl@ckChris]

tether would only knock you down there if she missed the ledge, i'm thinking. good samuses sweetspot to the point where they don't even really pull themselves up, they're just...on the edge.

i think the lightshield is good, and shield angling is better.

 

[G. Vice]

so you'd say it's situational rather than something that should be included in an overall strategy?

Everything in the game is situational. If there was one way to do it that always worked, we'd play Sheik

 

[DippnDots]

I'm raging so hard at sheik right now it's making me want to quit this game all together o_O

 

[spider_sense]

I'm raging so hard at sheik right now it's making me want to quit this game all together o_O

Sheik is mad gay. What's she doing to you?

 

[Renth]

I'm raging so hard at sheik right now it's making me want to quit this game all together o_O

Sheik is one of my favorite match ups unfortunately lol, I have a friend who mained sheik back when we were first learning the game together so for the longest time that's all I would play against. But yea she's a ******.

 

[Jane]

Everything in the game is situational. If there was one way to do it that always worked, we'd play Sheik

i'm so tempted to sig this

 

[Samba]

same here Renth. my brother has mained sheik for ten years. first character he ever played and I guess it stuck.... hard

 

[spider_sense]

Sheik is one of my favorite match ups unfortunately lol, I have a friend who mained sheik back when we were first learning the game together so for the longest time that's all I would play against. But yea she's a ******.

You're on crack if you like that matchup. lol

 

[Samba]

well if you've played against sheik for years and years, you can probably chain-grab her butt directly off...
but yes if she somehow DIs out of it, I would request to pause, go outside and smoke a ton of crack, come back and then watch myself die....

 

[A2ZOMG]

I got to play M2K in friendlies at WGF. **** Sheik.

He didn't even need to chaingrab me to just dominate that matchup on stage...I did grab him once, but he said if I chaingrabbed him he would have to chaingrab me as well. I didn't chaingrab him. Should have anyway just so that I could say I took a stock off him lol.

Vs Sheik and Fox...two matchups I dislike most as Ganon. Also I feel Doc is annoying and boring to fight and that you basically can only play one way against him, even if Ganon does have slight advantage in that matchup.

I'm finding Falco actually fun to play against as Ganon. I feel like vs Marth, it's a matchup that is made a lot more manageable if you're careful about not getting killed early. Though I'm not sure if my opinion would remain the same if I had to play a power ranked Falco.

 

[G. Vice]

You're on crack if you like that matchup. lol

Yeah Renth, or you should play other Sheik's that don't approach things the same way. Or at least not the same one over and over, because man It's definitely not fun lol


And yeah man, I played Nite, and lemme say that unless you're experienced in the Falco matchup as Ganon things can get ugly quick. Falco has the potential to shut ganon down. Nothing as upsetting to me personally though as playing against sheik. Even against Fox I feel like I'm able to space and do Ganon stuff, but it just seems like sheik trumps everything ganon has to me. Not to mention the point of playing sheik is to be gay and win, and they always chaingrab me, and I don't chaingrab :/

 

[-ACE-]

I always chaingrab and expect sheik to do the same. You just have to work 5x as hard to play safe and capitalize on opportunities. I'm with you guys though, the matchup blows lol.

 

[KirbyKaze]

If you are at low% you can often cc dtilt sheik if she fairs you on the way down.

Be careful with this. If she like does the Fair correctly she can block first and WD OOS grab you for this and you then die.

Sheik is mad gay. What's she doing to you?

Probably touching him inappropriately. And getting away with it.

To beat Sheik, somehow get her above you. I'm not sure Ganon can do that legitimately, though.

 

[Samba]

will ganon's u-air beat sheik's f-air in priority? like say if I did a jump u-air with my back to sheik to get high and cover my approach, would she too easily be able to just f-air me? or would it be a trade?

 

[kupo15]

You can CC Sheiks fair up to about 100%. So if you are going to get faired on the ground, you can CC jab every time (should be able to anyway)

 

[Samba]

okay so the u-air and the b-air... you can short hop with either and do your double jump right out of them, but I can't air dodge (to waveland). is it possible to waveland these two from a short hop? and if it isn't, why, if it's possible to double jump?

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

its IASA. you can interrupt with jump or another move, but not an airdodge. You could jump then first frame airdodge down, though.

 

[DannyG]

Let me ask the ganons in the room a question. What's the best method for getting off the ledge? Is it always a ledgedash, or would the situation dictate the best method? If so, which situations call for which options?

 

[G. Vice]

Let me ask the ganons in the room a question. What's the best method for getting off the ledge? Is it always a ledgedash, or would the situation dictate the best method? If so, which situations call for which options?

Always ledgedashing gets you killed. Sometimes a good old fashioned roll is the best bet. Sometimes you can ledgehop to attack to get the best results. If your opponent is spamming attacks trying to read a ledgedash or something, either time in between his attacks and ledgehop Down B, or ledgedash jab or ftilt. Jumping is sometimes a good option, but alot times it will leave you hanging and you'll get punished.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

if you're under 100, a straight getup is good. if they hit you, you have your double jump intact, compared to getting hit out of a ledgehop if you don't.

 

[Divinokage]

Just look at your opponent and see what's he doing, act accordingly. Ledge jump on stage, into tilts or aerials.. or waveland into roll, or just waveland jab. Depends, idk..