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Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

Discussion in 'Ganondorf' started by Linguini, Jan 10, 2009.

  1. Linguini

    Linguini
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    Ask any questions you want guys, the ganon metagame is pretty behind and I want to help out anyone i can with matchup strats or questions in general. Go for it.
     
  2. Winston

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    What do you put Ganon's matchups with the 4 top tier characters at?

    Hearing your reasoning for them would be really good too. Thanks
     
  3. Linguini

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    Fox: 60-40 in fox's favor.
    This really isnt as bad as everyone makes it seem.With careful playing ganon can win this, only because once fox is off the stage hes not coming back and fox's camping can easily be shut down by perfect wavelands.

    Marth: 50-50, or 55-45 in marths favor.
    Really close matchup, completely dependent on spacing. The only reason I say maybe 55-45 is because its quite easy to get off a sick combo on ganon with marth that=the stock.

    Falco: 50-50 or 55-45 in Falco's favor.
    I know this matchup wayy too well, so far no falco ive played can beat my ganon(shiz/pc/chops).
    At high levels of play it gets really even, ganon puts on pressure like mother****er when falco is cornered and falco's ****ty recovery is almost a free stock.At lower levels its in falco's favor slightly,improper tactics to get around lasers can really get you in a bad spot against falco.

    Sheik: 60-40 in sheiks favor.
    Let me say this, it's def. winnable. Ganon has a chaingrab on her as well.
    Nuff said.
     
  4. elvenarrow3000

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    What should Ganon do on the approach? The uair is an easy attack to hit with, but it doesn't link into very many things. The grab and stomp are good combo starters but are kinda slow... and the Gerudo Dragon is just... yeah.
     
  5. dERO!

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    hey, thanks for the topic, well, when I neutral tilt someone at very low %, I like to wavedash neutral tilt - wavedash neutral tilt 3-4 time, it works on opponents of my level, but It maybe works cause they never saw that before, what do you think about it ?

    ( sorry for my bad english )
     
  6. elvenarrow3000

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    ...what's a neutral tilt? An ftilt? Or a jab?
     
  7. dERO!

    dERO!
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    my bad, jab, in France we also call jab "tilt neutre" > "neutral tilt"
     
  8. elvenarrow3000

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    Woah. France? Vraiment?
     
  9. dERO!

    dERO!
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    i'm french =0
     
    Shadow Light Master likes this.
  10. Nintendevil

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    I'm still trying to figure that out...
    I gots a question.

    Also when you Dthrow someone and they get too much hitstun to grab again and you don't have the time to sh uair, what do you do?
     
  11. elvenarrow3000

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    What do you mean, they have too much hitstun to grab again?

    Usmash, fsmash, ftilt and jab work as dthrow followups, as well as dsmash, Wizard's Foot and Gerudo Dragon techchases.
     
  12. Nintendevil

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    I'm still trying to figure that out...
    I'm always too slow with it then -_-
     
  13. elvenarrow3000

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    What character/percentage/DI?
     
  14. Nintendevil

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    I'm still trying to figure that out...
    Idk XD high enough.

    My friend mains everyone and the second I'm out of % range for a CG I completely lack anything plausible as a follow up if I'm out of Jab range.
     
  15. elvenarrow3000

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    Ftilt is pretty fast...
     
  16. spider_sense

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    Well, this usually applies for the floaty characters (Peach, Samus, Jigglypuff, Marth etc) Once you d-throw them, they'll DI 1 out of 3 ways. Either slightly behind Ganon, or in front of him, or straight up. If they DI in front of you. You can f-air, or up-air, or if they DI behind you; you can b-air and if they DI straight up try an up smash. (This particular move annihilates Peaches) If you're fast enough they won't be able to react because of the hit stun.
     
    LoveSanctuary likes this.
  17. Nintendevil

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    I'm still trying to figure that out...
    Guys I figured all this, but if I'm playing a friend, I Dthrow them, and he gets launched too high for another grab, I'd replace it with an Usmash or Uair or something, but whenever I do that it takes forever to read and I don't even start charging/jumping until he's already naired me into some combo -_-
     
  18. SwizzyUK

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    Hey Linguini. I'm a Ganon main from UK. Seeing as I'm pretty much the only Ganon main, here there's no one who can give me advice / I can copy. The thing I think is missing from my game is I don't use smash attacks, except for the occasional U-smash. I know this is a pretty vague question (and very character specific) but do you have any advice on when they're useful?
     
  19. Linguini

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    Alright so against floaties/mid weights you can up smash out of a d throw if they DI up. This usually kills them at a really early percent and is a nice surprise. Out of some d throws you can f-smash if they DI forwards(notably sheik at 80%). The only other smash I use is d-smash
    . A nice trick i made up is get close to the edge and face towards the stage. If someone approaches from the ground in front of you d smash right before he gets to you. The first hit of the d smash will semi spike them off the stage,setting up for an edgeguard. That's all I got for ya.

    Nintendevil, listen to this dude, he knows what he's talking about.


    To approach in general terms(very general) fair is going to be your staple "wall" move. This is pretty much how ganon works since hes not fast. Make a wall, with fair, or bair, and throw in some uairs. Ftilt is also one of my favorites.

    That doesnt work from my experience,sorry brah.
     
    GleXx likes this.
  20. elvenarrow3000

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    But fair doesn't really combo into anything, does it?
     
  21. CluelessBTD

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    I think it combos into itself at very low percentages. If they do happen to get out of the double fair, all they can do is tech roll toward you (you'll have plenty of time to chase), or tech roll away (just chase them and keep the pressure on). If they tech in place they get hit by the second fair.
     
  22. SwizzyUK

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    Nice, liking the D-smash idea. Will try it out. The only one of those I already use is the U-smash from D-throw on mid weights. Will try out f-smash on sheik too... I have real issues beating sheiks, another killing move in the arsenal is always helpful.

    Since you answered the last vague question so well, here's another for you. I'm good at destroying average smashers, I hold my own against good ones, but the top tier UK players find me a little predictable. Any ways around that one? I think what they mean is in terms of which way I tech / approaches / generally what move I'm gonna use and when...
     
  23. Ryan-K

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    yo linguini i have trouble vs cf with ganon, like i do better against foxes lol

    it seems like no matter what i do he can just run in and out and i have to try to use wavelands and try to use my priority against him, and it seems that unless hes off the edge i cant do anything to him and while it's not the combos that bother me he just seems to always keep pressure on

    also come back up to ny lol
     
  24. RestInPeace

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    Which way to you DI CF's grabs? And Marth's?
     
  25. elvenarrow3000

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    Hmmm... good call.
     
  26. spider_sense

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    I absolutely suck with Captain Falcon matchups as well, but I'd say the best policy is too space f-airs and tilts and do NOT let him grab you. Because once he grabs you; all you will need is an up-throw to knee. When you feel he's about to grab, try retreating b-airs to d-airs. Linguini can definitely give a much more insightful advice with this match up. lol

    And about the DI part. I'd too would like to know about which way to DI Falco's shines, and Fox upthrows. Rofl, Dwayne and Chops are too good Linguini. =P
     
  27. Broken_HitBox

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    Ya i have trouble with falcons cause one hit and i get massively comboed like i was playing noobking a week ago and i got rocked he like... no matter what he did to me it ended in a knee once i got two stocks off but that was a fluke so i wanna avoid these combos lol whats the best way to break them
     
  28. Winston

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    can you explain this bit about shutting down fox's camping with wavelands?
     
  29. SwizzyUK

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    Just get the right distance away and perfect waveland to f-tilt. Do it a couple of times and fox will start to worry about camping because ganon can come flying at him from halfway across the level and boot him in the face while hes lasering (majorly satisfying too!)

    If thats not right feel free to correct me as I'm not majorly experienced, but fox is one of the match-ups i know quite well.
     
  30. Linguini

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    Yeah I had this problem too way back when. There are only two things you can do to improve vs. experienced players.
    1.Record vids and analyze them, or post them up so we can hep you out.

    2.Play massive amounts of friendlies with these players and as you play them you will subconsciously get rid of bad habits, if you get punished enough.
    Both worked for me and should work for you, good luck.

    CF is hard as **** for ganon,IMO one of the hardest to learn. I used to suck vs him but I played enough good falcons to get the hang of it eventually.
    VS c.fal it's all rocks, paper, scissors. He can move around alot more safely than you and his nairs/insane dash grab are a big threat to ganon. I like to stay in my shield quite a bit in this matchup simply because it's safe from everything except for grabs so don't be too predictable. Bait aerials/tilts/shield to get falcon to approach,but your going to have to predict it or have insanely fast reflexes to punish his approach.
    Ill tell you what beats what.
    Uair/uair out of shield beats nair.
    Spaced bair beats nair.
    Only shield beats knee.
    Angled up ftilt beat nair.

    Thing is, once ganon hits falcon once the pressure game is on your side and falcons will start running into everything you throw at them.Sorry man, but vs falcon,the pressure is always going to be higher for you, thats just how the matchup goes:mad:
    Once you get falcon off the stage he should never come back, ever. If he recovers high just bair, and when he falcon kicks jump out and hit him. If he sweespots uair him(guaranteed kill), or stomp his ***(not guaranteed but feels good lol), OR if your feelign spicy wizards f00t.

    CF- I DI away and a little higher than horizontally.If hes u throwing you, at lower percents mash c stick up and you can interrupt his combo's with your uair.
    Marth- Pretty self explanatory, Di away form fthrow, from u throw DI up, and dont be too predictable on returning to the grounf because if he reads your jump,thats pretty much a ken combo.

    Smash DI fox's upthrows, and up and behind falco when he shines you.

    Like I said mash c stick up or Di as explained earlier. Those combo's are gay so sometimes their inescapable, lol.

    Basically, ganons perfect waveland is insane so if fox's camp, they will get punished if you have this tech down right.
    You can either sh waveland, double jump waveland(easier),full jump aerial to waveland, or full jump waveland(neat mindgame.)


    Oh and I want to share a tech that has worked really well for me lately.
    sh perfect waveland backwards is ****ing amazing vs fox and falcon. Because when they come at you with an aerial and you do this right before its a guaranteed shieldgrab.
     
  31. Zenjamin

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    Linguini, who the hell is that in your sig?

    Also, why do I (almost) never see the wizards foot spike in upper levels of play?
    Multiple times, I have comboed my oponet so they are just barely off the stage, and I spontaniously sh Wizards foot spike. In those situations, I did it not because it was flashy or looked good, but because it was the fastest and best option as even the time spent DIing towards them would allow them to grab the ledge.


    ... Ok, that may not have been a verry good explanation, but you know what a mean.
    Its a ShortHopped perfect spike that keeps you on the stage, and the hitbox extends diagonally down below the stage.
    Is there a flaw with this tatic in upper level play?





    PS:
    There is still no good smashers in my small town, but as nobody has picked up the ganon vid thread, I may be persuaded to pick it back up for a time if you start recording your matches again.

    *hint hint*
     
  32. Renth

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    keep up the good work linguini.. maybe some day i'll move back to florida and you can get me back into melee.
     
  33. Linguini

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    I just think it's because in theory, it's a risky move to use, but not really. And its only truly useful against people who have non-hit up b's like falcon and ganon.

    lol renth, im waiting for you to come back down man!
     
  34. Zenjamin

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    I was thinking of it being used more as a combo finisher then a edge guard. If you can do something where the other guy has just been hit and is DIing back towards the stage, and you are about a foot or so away from the ledge, a SH wizards foot to the ledge feels quicker and more of a sure thing then anything that would require you to DI the same distance towards the ledge that the other guy has to DI towards the ledge.

    Also, it doesnt even have to be a combo. Sometimes you just get lucky early on, and you are in a position where your opponent is standing on the ledge and you are standing in front of him. You have enough time to jab or tilt, but not anything else. The jab/tilt takes them just far enough off the ledge that they are above oblivion, but not so far that they cant just DI right back. In those situations, a wizards spike finshes them off... at least the caliber of players I have played.


    But even when edge guarding, you can use the wizards foot on the ledge against people with hitting upBs. You will just trade hits.
    At least in my experience.




    Still curious where that one guy in your sig came from though, and if your ever going to start recording vids. again.



    Anyways, thanks for bringing interest back into the ganon community. I live in a verry small town that is now devoid of good smashers, so talking about the metagame and watching the metagame is as close as I can get to the glory days. :urg:
     
  35. Pyrostormer

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    Hey Linguini, I recently have been tring to find uses for Ganon's Utilt and I've found it works good on Sheik, CF and very rarely Marth, so I'm wondering If you have found any uses for it.
     
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  36. KIngGerudo

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    hai gaiz
    i see this thread is going great :]
    mark needs to play melee again NAO! >:0
     
  37. Renth

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    hah. I wish it was that easy. There is no one even remotely close to me that's worth playing.. Everyone here is complete trash playing them would make me suck more. I'll be back in FL someday......
     
  38. KIngGerudo

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    aww dam. sounds like what it used to be for me and my friends. we ended up teaching some of the people that played and now its pretty good. hope you get back into it man. only good things came from you playing.
     
  39. spider_sense

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    Pasta! How do you fight spacy Marths? I DI straight into the combo, but I'm afraid to DI away, because they'll just run and grab or F-smash. Is there anyway to fight Marths in general? =( Help a bruttha out.
     
  40. KIngGerudo

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    bair eats his aerials.
    uair is as fast as his fair and can disrupt his combos.
    overb pushes you far enough outta his grab range and takes a chunk out of his shield.
    dthrow should always lead to a hit.
     

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