Ganon's Beard - General. Social. Rankings.

[Breezy]

Yes, but everyone else is saying if the matchup is played properly you should get annihilated. There is no such thing as 100-0 because of human error, and other variables, but in a theoretically perfectly played game Ganon should lose 100% of the time. Every grab should be transmuted into a lost stock. Every, single grab. And three grabs should be easy to get, with minimal to no risk.

So yes, you may take a stock, MAYBE TWO! But you just should not win.

By that logic, Ganon should have 0:100 MUs **** near across the board. Falco should be 0:100. Snake should be. MK should be. DDD should be. Pit should be. Kirby should be. Luigi should be. Diddy should be. Pikachu should be. Mario should be. And more.

Ridiculous.

 

[PhantomX]

Pretty much S and A tier are like 0:100s in a perfect world.

 

[smashkng]

At least no one cares about knowing matchups against low tiers.

 

[Superspright]

ICs have a particular advantage though over all of those. They have safe, and I mean SAFE approaches--highly reliable, and virtually impossible to get around. Even if Ganon never messes up and never gets grabbed, you still have to contend with the trifecta of butthurt: squalls, ice blocks, and blizzards--all of this of course being desynced all over your face.

And vs MK if played perfectly we should win it. Gerudo techchase all day. XD

 

[A2ZOMG]

DDD matchup in a perfect world is not a 0-100 matchup imo. DDD's problem is that he can't actually threaten you in a safe way that makes you reliably get hit or grabbed if you just wait.

Of course it sucks if he chaingrabs you across FD, but otherwise I don't see the matchup being well...effing balls terrible lmao. Especially since DDD's huge size allows Ganon to do some pretty silly things to him that actually work.

The other ones in the S/A tier, yeah, I'd agree they suck too much.

 

[Clai]

My Ganon is still amazingly sick.

I guess for the sake of my own ego, I'm tempted to win one tournament set with him...yeah. I think I could do that easily as long as the matchup isn't too unwinnable.

It's been a long time since you guys have seen my Ganon anyhow, I have replays coming up fairly soon though. I wish I had some more against better players but w/e. Actually I do have two against ViceGrip's Ness where he beats me solidly, but those matches should be enjoyable nonetheless.

Yeah, I guess I just want to ensure that I stay high on the Ganon tier list.

For all the boasting you do, your Ganon better be really freaking manly. If I watch your videos and don't see taunting or Flight of Ganons, I'm going to virtually Sparta Kick you in the face.

Spoiler

I hope that you can see I'm just messing with you and don't take this seriously.

Breezy, give us some Ganon-IC's matches son, if Lain says you do some twisted stuff with Ganon I want in on this.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

A2ZOMG's Ganon's horrible.

 

[Z1GMA]

ICs have a particular advantage though over all of those. They have safe, and I mean SAFE approaches--highly reliable, and virtually impossible to get around. Even if Ganon never messes up and never gets grabbed, you still have to contend with the trifecta of butthurt: squalls, ice blocks, and blizzards--all of this of course being desynced all over your face.

QFT

DDD matchup in a perfect world is not a 0-100 matchup imo. DDD's problem is that he can't actually threaten you in a safe way that makes you reliably get hit or grabbed if you just wait.

Of course it sucks if he chaingrabs you across FD, but otherwise I don't see the matchup being well...effing balls terrible lmao. Especially since DDD's huge size allows Ganon to do some pretty silly things to him that actually work.

I just wish he didn't have that CG.
If he didn't, Ganon would do fairly well against him, I believe.

 

[@HomE]

Yea the CG is reallly ****ty against D3, I wish people would consider turning the damage ratio to like 1.1, i can't remember the specifics but just a very minor change like that makes 90% of the CG's not work or something like that... and imagine if Ganon killed EVEN SOONER!!!


DUN DUN DUUUUNNNNNN!!!!!

 

[Breezy]

Breezy, give us some Ganon-IC's matches son, if Lain says you do some twisted stuff with Ganon I want in on this.

I don't have any videos of Ganon:ICs up yet.

I'm going to ASC on the 20th, and if there's an IC there I'll try and get some matches recorded in bracket or mm.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

I would like to see some videos against Lain, not just anyone.

 

[PhantomX]

I agree. A high caliber IC is much different than any old IC, so we would prefer to see how you handle those. Not being aggressive or antagonistic, merely curious.

 

[Superspright]

Breezy, if you can do this then you have effectively proven the consensus on the matchup ratio is flawed; all the theory craft shows us that it shouldn't be possible to do what you are proposing.

I think everyone would be thrilled if you could refute it. Myself included, because if an IC player really wants to be a *******, then I really can't do much. I've beaten ICs before and Shieks, big deal, but they weren't playing it properly. When I have played against a competent player who KNOWS Ganon, I always, and I mean, always lose.

[EDIT]

Also, the reason why everyone is stressing a high-caliber IC player is because the ICs are theoretically the hardest to learn. They have CGs for every character which require different timing--plus numerous desyncs, and the impeccable timing it requires to do these things make them by far more difficult to play than Ganon.

So, if you're going to prove everyone wrong, make sure it's with someone who knows their character. Knowing the matchup would be a huge bonus, but I doubt an IC player would dedicate much time to a matchup that is abysmal--even a rudimentary amount of knowledge would be sufficient to beat some, if not the best Ganons. :S

 

[DLA]

I fought Lain's Icies in pools at Hot Dickings.

I can't really say much about Lain vs. Breezy at M.A.S. (the tournament in which Breezy took a game off Lain), but what I can say is that when I fought Lain at Hot Dickings, I could tell he wasn't ****ing around. He NEEDED to win pools so he would have the best shot at winning brackets.

I remember him saying that he literally spent ALL of his money on the bus ticket to St. Louis - he had to ask my fellow IL brawler Corms if he could borrow $10, just so he could enter doubles. So you can obviously tell he really needed the money.

M.A.S. was a local tournament, and I doubt he saw anyone there as a legitimate threat. Hot Dickings, on the other hand, was regional, and had some players that could pull an upset--my boy Kain (wolf main) took him to game 5 in grand finals. Zeton's Fox would have given him a lot of trouble (Lain said it himself).

Anyways, when I fought Lain in pools, I just didn't see any way I could beat him. I felt practically helpless against his Icies. I managed to take one stock off the first game, and two stocks off the second game. And I felt like it was because I pulled some pretty crazy, sneaky ****. But these random bursts of damage weren't anywhere near enough to actually beat him, let alone in the set. If I made a mistake, he grabbed me. If he didn't miss so many CGs, he would have 3 stocked me both games.

Anyways, just thought I'd share my input. I've fought sandbagging Lain and I've fought super cereal Lain, and there's a pretty big gap.

 

[stRIP]

hurr durr ganon boards

just forgot to say you i've completely quit smash a while ago.

you wont miss me anyway

bye

 

[Z1GMA]

hurr durr ganon boards

just forgot to say you i've completely quit smash a while ago.

you wont miss me anyway

bye

Haha, what?
You just started a couple days ago..?

 

[stRIP]

that were about 2-3 weeks ago since we played.
A few days after it i've quit completely.

 

[thexsunrosered]

lol I killed a Game and Watch with the first hit of nair today. He died off the top and rage quit

 

[Swoops]

Strip, you're leaving us? How dare you...

I haven't played in forever, but I'm starting to get into more tournaments here in AZ. I moved near more stuff.

 

[A2ZOMG]

I haven't heard from you in forever Swoops.

Any chance you got better? You were already god**** amazing since last time I heard from you.

 

[Breezy]

I dunno when I'll see Lain again, and I'm not gunna bother posting videos of me ****** some scrub ICs.

 

[Swoops]

I haven't heard from you in forever Swoops.

Any chance you got better? You were already god**** amazing since last time I heard from you.

I doubt it considering I haven't played smash too seriously in a while. Just went to one tournament though, and I'm about to go to a couple more pretty soon here, so we'll see. I've been preoccupied with TvC mostly.
Haven't really felt that anything serious needed to be added to the guide >.<. But I figured I'd check in to see if anyone else felt any different.

 

[TP]

A2ZOMG, you're a loser for stopping the combo I started on the DACUS video.

 

[Divilenta]

Strip noooooooo we lost another one. D:

And omg look what the cat drug in. Swoops :O

 

[fromundaman]

I doubt it, but is there any chance Ganon can do this:

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=264193

(About to go to work and don't have time to test it.)

 

[DLA]

Well I know that Ganon has a DACUS, though it's really bad. It looks like you need to buffer Diddy's dash attack out of something else in order for him to DACUS, but I don't think he is able to DACUS otherwise. And with this new tech, he can--and it happens to be a really good DACUS. But since Ganon can already DACUS and it already sucks, I'm pretty sure it will suck even if he uses this new technique.

Just theorycraft though... I left my Wii cables at someone's house yesterday so I can't test it until I get them back.

 

[Superspright]

Hmmm, if we could get a good slide on our USmash we would have an approach. Like, if it was half of that, we would have essentially a wall of hitboxes in front with good shieldpush and good IASA frames. >.>

God he needs SOMETHING.

 

[*JuriHan*]

 

[Z1GMA]

Daum. It'd be awesome if Ganon was able to DACUS like that.
It'd be hard to punish it too, because of Usmash's sick IASAs.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

To do that we'd need a frame advantage sidestep first. It's too bad we don't.

 

[Z1GMA]

we'd need a frame advantage sidestep

Say what ?

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Frame advantage/not so laggy.

Unless there's IASA frames, you can't input commands before the animation of a move finishes, so, that new finding would be impossible for Ganon to do.

 

[Z1GMA]

I see . . .

 

[Ganonsburg]

Having read the thread, I think you only need to buffer it out of another move. So, I guess you could do it out of a fair, or a USmash.

 

[Z1GMA]

Having read the thread, I think you only need to buffer it out of another move. So, I guess you could do it out of a fair, or a USmash.

It's bedtime over here, so I can't test it.

All 'Dorfs, give it a try N see what you can find out.
No, really, everyone should mess around in Training Mode for a while!

 

[Swoops]

You don't need sidestepping at all. You simply have to buffer the DA. You don't need to a sidestep to buffer, you can do it pretty much out of anything, a shield drop even.

Unfortunately, as far as I can tell, it doesn't do much. 'Bout as much distance covered as a dash into immediate u-smash. Although, I'll probably play around with usmash a little more.

 

[A2ZOMG]

A2ZOMG, you're a loser for stopping the combo I started on the DACUS video.

Doesn't matter. I win so massively in this video that I have a right to piss on you guys.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcfH5Fzp5PM

BEAT THAT.

Also, you know you're too good when you tell a scrub Olimar that they can DI Up to avoid Flame Choke -> D-smash, and then you just techhcase D-air their standup. =D

 

[Ganonsburg]

Eh, I fail at testing. I couldn't get anything to work. Granted, I use W+N, but I mapped a C-stick to the D-pad. I didn't try it in slower speeds though, which I probably should have done. I'll try again later.

But on another subject, I think I prefer The Wind Waker over other Zelda games. OoT was nice, but having just finished it today I feel that (as revolutionary as it was) I prefer the cleaner methods of L-Targeting and the cleaner graphics and the deeper story. Twilight Princess was good as well, but a bit easy. The story was pretty cool. Its graphics were good at a glance, but really messy when you looked at them.

I think the best part of OoT as a game played now is the difficulty. It wasn't THAT difficult (even the notoriously hard Water temple wasn't too bad). But the bosses at least did reasonable damage, rather than having a freaking huge sea serpent that only does one heart damage (which is easy to dodge in the first place).

Yeah, random talk about the Zelda franchise, because I beat OoT today. Huzzah.

 

[Bahamut777]

You can buffer this out of any move that has IASA, this includes USmash itself, DTilt (3 frames, but still) and spotdodge (2 frames). I think UTilt does have it too.

I'll test it today afternoon before university starts... man... I've grown up.

 

[Bahamut777]

Sorry for double posting, but since my last post, I couldn't settle down. I've been testing this since 10:00 AM (BR time)... there's no way to pull this out! I've tried even tool assisted!

but don't give up! I couldn't pull this out with Diddy either and it's known that he can perform it! Maybe I'm not doing it right... :V