Ganon's Beard - General. Social. Rankings.

[A2ZOMG]

The massive slide is specific to Diddy Kong...

I'm 95% sure of it. Especially since the Japanese only pointed it out on Diddy Kong.

 

[Ganonsburg]

The massive slide is specific to Diddy Kong...

I'm 95% sure of it. Especially since the Japanese only pointed it out on Diddy Kong.

But...it's Ganon. That 5% chance may just hold something that might sort of help...haha.

Speaking of failed ATs, too bad Ganon can't FoG off the bottom blast line...that would be sick.

 

[Bahamut777]

Falco also have it, but it's not as great as Diddy's.

BTW, during testing, I found out that Dash Buffered USmash can be a little usefull... I could link DThrow -> DBUSmash 100% sure at 0% on Mario. This needs testing under DI and AirDodging.

 

[Vex Kasrani]

I tested it with Ganon and he inches very very slightly forward.

I believe I'm doing it correctly because I can perform Diddy's almost consistently.

 

[Noobicidal]

BTW, during testing, I found out that Dash Buffered USmash can be a little usefull... I could link DThrow -> DBUSmash 100% sure at 0% on Mario. This needs testing under DI and AirDodging.

Assuming that you're speaking of Ganon, it doesn't work. I do however charge a DB up smash in hopes of bating the air dodge, and if they move too far away, you can react accordingly with up smash's IASA frames.

 

[PhantomX]

I tested it with Ganon and he inches very very slightly forward.

I believe I'm doing it correctly because I can perform Diddy's almost consistently.

I tested it with your mom...

she's dead now

 

[Noobicidal]

I tested it with your mom...

she's dead now

I see .

 

[Superspright]

But...it's Ganon. That 5% chance may just hold something that might sort of help...haha.

Speaking of failed ATs, too bad Ganon can't FoG off the bottom blast line...that would be sick.

And virtually impossible...

 

[Sovereign]

Guys, I'm going to a small local tourney, this weekend, hosted by Vamp. I'm planning on using Ganon, but if money's involved I might go all out, and use someone with a greater chance.

I've been messin' around with FoG, and have been trying my hardest to master the timing, and incorporate it into my game, but wi-fi won't allow it. The tourney's offline, though, and I've gotten it down pretty well.

Anywho, wish me luck, and hopefully I bring some good news.

 

[A2ZOMG]

FoG is only useful against Snake anyway, so don't worry too much about it.

IMO the most important technical things to practice are F-air/N-air spacing.

 

[PK-ow!]

Dash -> Foxtrot -> Dash Dance -> Choke is indispensable, as is ledgehugging from a Choke. Way easier than ledghugging from Raptor Boost, but you can't afford to die from it.


Under F-Air spacing, learn to land F-Air on things below you when falling directly on them. If you're exact, you can punch them backwards, which will usually become relevant as this applies when at the stage edge.

 

[Sovereign]

All right. I'll continue to practice and see what I can do with various things, albeit Ganon being one of the most limited characters.

Sometimes I wish they would've turned his Dtaunt into a type of mode switching, so that he can use his sword, that he loves to flaunt around.

 

[Superspright]

If he had a sword he'd be broken. I can imagine it now: Sword for racking up damage and giving him a semi-viable approach or a viable one perhaps.

Then switch back over for some serious *** murder.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Uh, look at Ike. Ike is bottom tier garbage that is only barely better than Ganon.

 

[Divilenta]

Uh, look at Ike. Ike is bottom tier garbage that is only barely better than Ganon.

Are you implying that Ganon would be as trashy as Ike with a sword? That's only implying that Ganondorf will have a very similar fighting strategy with a sword.

 

[Sovereign]

If he had a sword he'd be broken. I can imagine it now: Sword for racking up damage and giving him a semi-viable approach or a viable one perhaps.

Then switch back over for some serious *** murder.

I'm thinking about Rihugan's(don't know if I got his name right) video, showcasing Ganon's crazy stuff with items. Flame Choke -> Sword Hit -> Forced Standup -> Free Hit. That's all Ganon would get, really, plus a little bit of range.

 

[Superspright]

No I mean if he really had a sword moveset--not a swap for the beamsword. Like how ZSS is not like Samus.

I could imagine him doing epic stuff.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Considering Sakurai logic, I can't see how he would be much different from Ike. =/

I mean yeah...it would be awesome and stuff to have a sword, but if you're going to be the same laggy and slow character, that still sucks.

 

[fromundaman]

Uh, look at Ike. Ike is bottom tier garbage that is only barely better than Ganon.

Jesus, he's bad, but barely better than Ganon? I think that may be going a bit far...

 

[Spelt]

flame choke to star rod jab flame choke to star rod jab flame choke to star rod jab flame choke to star rod jab flame choke to star rod jab flame choke to star rod jab flame choke to star rod jab flame choke to star rod jab flame choke to star rod jab flame choke to star rod jab flame choke to star rod jab flame choke to star rod jab flame choke to star rod jab flame choke to star rod jab flame choke to star rod jab flame choke to star rod jab flame choke to star rod jab flame choke to star rod jab flame choke to star rod jab flame choke to star rod jab flame choke to star rod jab flame choke to star rod jab flame choke to star rod jab flame choke to star rod jab flame choke to star rod jab flame choke to star rod jab flame choke to star rod jab flame choke to star rod jab flame choke to star rod jab flame choke to star rod jab flame choke to star rod jab flame choke to star rod jab flame choke to star rod jab flame choke to star rod jab flame choke to star rod jab flame choke to star rod jab flame choke to star rod jab flame choke to star rod jab flame choke to star rod jab flame choke to star rod jab flame choke to star rod jab flame choke to star rod jab flame choke to star rod jab flame choke to star rod jab flame choke to star rod jab flame choke to star rod jab flame choke to star rod jab flame choke to star rod jab flame choke to star rod jab flame choke to star rod jab flame choke to star rod jab flame choke to star rod jab


10char

 

[Superspright]

If only Ganon had a legitimate infinite. :[

 

[A2ZOMG]

Jesus, he's bad, but barely better than Ganon? I think that may be going a bit far...

I'd say Ike is in fact the 3rd worst character in this game in terms of matchups and options in general. He realistically belongs in the same tier as Ganon along with Zelda.

He's just so terrible he's almost worse than Ganon. Except Ike actually can Jab if they spotdodge. Ganon can't. Plus Ike isn't as gimpable. Regardless, Ike is a character that really can't do anything to you if you don't mess up. 4 out of his 5 aerials are powershieldable on reaction, and even Ganon is able to easily shieldgrab Ike out of Jabs as long as he knows the timing and the fact that Ike relies on Jab to attempt to do anything (Ike leans in on Jab, and the advantage on block is definitely punishable with shieldgrab and sometimes aerials out of shield).

If Ganon however could feasibly respond to spotdodge, he would CLEARLY be better than Ike. Consider that Ike cannot do two aerials in a fulljump and that he's hurt MORE by juggles and projectile camping than Ganon. Ganon can actually juggle and edgeguard you very solidly. Ike can't followup on anyone good.

But anyhow Ganon is somehow more fail at doing anything to defenses, so he's worse.

 

[PhantomX]

A2Z... sometimes your posts are super smart... but sometimes your posts are the above. You lack consistency.

 

[Noobicidal]

I lol'd.

10lols

 

[@HomE]

Ike as the 3rd worst char in the game......

NO...

Kalm.... if your out there what is your opinion on Ike? I know you played a lot of them in the Low-tier tourny...

and FYI Ike dominated the low tier tourny

 

[A2ZOMG]

Yeah, Ike dominates mediocre players and he has like over 9000 players using him, including some amazingly awesome pros.

AGAINST GOOD PEOPLE WHO KNOW HOW HE WORKS HE IS THE THIRD WORST CHARACTER IN THE GAME K?

Most people are not good at this game, and even the average professional for this game really just isn't comparatively as competent as professionals for other games. The average player is horrible at deliberate powershielding, establishing solid traps, zoning correctly, edgeguarding/recovering intelligently, and other things that specifically are very exploitable against Ike. Besides Ike being exploitable on reaction time, he has little real way to consistently capitalize on any advantageous positions he's in because his mobility sucks and because he's super laggy and slow on basically everything (besides his Jab, which is really not as amazing as people try to say it is). Ike happens to have significantly above average representation and a massively overdeveloped metagame.

I mean if Ganon could throw out a move that didn't get ***** by spotdodge on reaction, he would be better than Ike. Ganon has better tools for punishing and trapping and setting up into something that can finish off his opponent. He's only worse than Ike because he's more gimpable and well...has more trouble starting anything on a good opponent.

Oh yeah and Ike clearly loses against Link...who for SOME REASON is ranked lower than Ike. I think Link is actually better than Ike, despite clearly being horrible overall. Ike is just too godawful on the other hand. As for his other matchps in low tiers (or other tiers for that matter), I really can't see Ike having the advantage against anyone...arguably he might win against Captain Falcon just because there is just too much technical demand for Falcon to easily outdo Jab walls. He's just too easy to camp and shut down once you powershield him (yeah so I heard ADHD powershielded 80% of Rykoshet's F-airs...using the ICE CLIMBERS) and realize that his Jab is not safe on block. He's the most linear character in this game by far.

 

[Kishin]

Ike hater. Ike is not third worst. I don't even think there's a low tier ranking in order since it varies too much with individual match-ups imo. Ike is really not that slow... Jab is amazing, although, it's true that a lot of people don't know how to deal with it. Ike one thing that really keeps him from being incredibly bad is his range. Spaced SHFF F-air is safe on block for a lot of characters. It doesn't have that much lag that Ike is screwed every time someone shields it, really. Most of the "good" Ikes live like from TX on northeastward. There really aren't any very good/known Ikes on the West Coast so unless you have real evidence on why Ike is so bad, Good Day to you.

Also, Ike has a top tier back-flip.

 

[WhatIsRaizen?]

Yeah, Ike dominates mediocre players and he has like over 9000 players using him, including some amazingly awesome pros.

AGAINST GOOD PEOPLE WHO KNOW HOW HE WORKS HE IS THE THIRD WORST CHARACTER IN THE GAME K?

Most people are not good at this game, and even the average professional for this game really just isn't comparatively as competent as professionals for other games. The average player is horrible at deliberate powershielding, establishing solid traps, zoning correctly, edgeguarding/recovering intelligently, and other things that specifically are very exploitable against Ike. Besides Ike being exploitable on reaction time, he has little real way to consistently capitalize on any advantageous positions he's in because his mobility sucks and because he's super laggy and slow on basically everything (besides his Jab, which is really not as amazing as people try to say it is). Ike happens to have significantly above average representation and a massively overdeveloped metagame.

I mean if Ganon could throw out a move that didn't get ***** by spotdodge on reaction, he would be better than Ike. Ganon has better tools for punishing and trapping and setting up into something that can finish off his opponent. He's only worse than Ike because he's more gimpable and well...has more trouble starting anything on a good opponent.

Oh yeah and Ike clearly loses against Link...who for SOME REASON is ranked lower than Ike. I think Link is actually better than Ike, despite clearly being horrible overall. Ike is just too godawful on the other hand. As for his other matchps in low tiers (or other tiers for that matter), I really can't see Ike having the advantage against anyone...arguably he might win against Captain Falcon just because there is just too much technical demand for Falcon to easily outdo Jab walls. He's just too easy to camp and shut down once you powershield him (yeah so I heard ADHD powershielded 80% of Rykoshet's F-airs...using the ICE CLIMBERS) and realize that his Jab is not safe on block. He's the most linear character in this game by far.

wait, Kalm, mediocre? Kalm ranked 4 in the low tier tournament losing to 2 Ikes.. he beat some of the best players on wifi (metatitan). I don't see how he's mediocre and ike 3rd worst, plus, ganon should get ***** online

 

[A2ZOMG]

On the contrary, I don't hate Ike, and rather he's my favorite Fire Emblem character, and I'm pretty legit with the character since I play to mindgame in gimmicks. I hate Marth on the other hand, a character that really has no redeeming qualities in his own game.

Spaced F-air is not safe if they powershield it or camp, and most importantly, Ike can't approach you ever since that gets him punished out of shield. He has to wall you, which gets beaten by good reaction time.

If Ike could actually kill you out of Jabs, then it would be amazing. He only tacks on some more damage to you when he Jabs, since his followups are garbage. And they're not safe on block.

The fact that Ike even can do anything in tournaments is more like evidence that the average PLAYER is horrible.

Basically Ike's two best attacks are unsafe and easy to see coming, and he has a hell of a lot of trouble realistically landing anything else because he's the worst juggler and worst edgeguarder in the game.

Fail argument WhatIsRaizen. Ganondorf is worse than Ike. Both characters benefit a LOT from wifi however.

 

[WhatIsRaizen?]

On the contrary, I don't hate Ike, and rather he's my favorite Fire Emblem character, and I'm pretty legit with the character since I play to mindgame in gimmicks. I hate Marth on the other hand, a character that really has no redeeming qualities in his own game.

Spaced F-air is not safe if they powershield it or camp, and most importantly, Ike can't approach you ever since that gets him punished out of shield. He has to wall you, which gets beaten by good reaction time.

If Ike could actually kill you out of Jabs, then it would be amazing. He only tacks on some more damage to you when he Jabs, since his followups are garbage. And they're not safe on block.

The fact that Ike even can do anything in tournaments is more like evidence that the average PLAYER is horrible.

Basically Ike's two best attacks are unsafe and easy to see coming, and he has a hell of a lot of trouble realistically landing anything else because he's the worst juggler and worst edgeguarder in the game.

Fail argument WhatIsRaizen. Ganondorf is worse than Ike. Both characters benefit a LOT from wifi however.

i was trying to point out, if Ike was so bad, why would kalm lose to not 1, but 2? he beat jigglypuffs and ness' for crying out loud who should be a ton better than ike according to u

 

[Noobicidal]

he beat some of the best players on wifi (metatitan).

(metatitan)

(metatitan)

This thread is making me laugh HARD tonight.

 

[Breezy]

Whats a metatitan?

 

[Ganonsburg]

Whats a metatitan?

Sounds like that 3rd gen psychic/fighting pokemon, lol

 

[A2ZOMG]

i was trying to point out, if Ike was so bad, why would kalm lose to not 1, but 2? he beat jigglypuffs and ness' for crying out loud who should be a ton better than ike according to u

So? Your logic is still abysmal. Just because Kalm beat x character and lost to another DOESN'T MEAN **** ABOUT HOW GOOD A CHARACTER IS. Especially since it's wifi.

All it means if Kalm beat a Jigglypuff or Ness is that Kalm's Ganon beat those characters in a wifi tournament, and that he lost to Ike players at that same wifi tournament.

This has nothing to do with how good Ike is. Ike however realistically speaking does not have the tools to be a competitively viable character. Neither does Ganondorf either. In fact by your type of basis, I could argue that because of some random tournament that Kosk, Kalm, or Zeon ***** with Ganon that Ganon somehow isn't the worst character in the game. That logic of course is faulty and irrelevant to the argument that is at hand here.

Seriously, what are you on man? You don't have to agree with me, but I expect you to have a decent reason why before you make a half-***ed attempt to badly refute what I'm saying.

 

[Vermanubis]

Fail argument WhatIsRaizen. Ganondorf is worse than Ike. Both characters benefit a LOT from wifi however.

*buzzer sound*

Buffering everything incorrectly, getting caught in buffer strings, being unable to be precise and so on is a boon to be sure. >_>

If your opponent is stupid enough to roll into an fsmash, sure. Otherwise, no. Ganon is no longer bottom tier in lag, he is feculent matter tier.

 

[Vex Kasrani]

Ganon actually does get better on wifi. Atleast in my opinion he gets MUCH better.

-vexer kasrannnny

 

[Ganonsburg]

Raizen was pointing out that for two Ikes to make it that high in a low tier tourney, that means those Ikes had to fight a bunch of other characters. Even with the wifi boost, if Ike really was 3rd worst, he still shouldn't have that many representatives that high.

 

[*JuriHan*]

depends on how u play him. If u like spamming smashes, ya he's kinda "better" on failfi but the same could be said of any character.


edit: lol who cares about his performance on wifi? People still play that ****? You know its ****ed up when you got even me quitting it.

 

[Vex Kasrani]

depends on how u play him. If u like spamming smashes, ya he's kinda "better" on failfi but the same could be said of any character.

Except since reaction time is practically doubled because of input delay, and Ganon hits like a truck, it does benefit him hitting people and not being blocked on reaction sometimes, which helps him more then most characters.

-vexer kasrannnny

 

[Vermanubis]

Ganon actually does get better on wifi.

-vexer kasrannnny

Depending on how bad your opponent is, yes. However, he loses out on too many things to call his gains a boon. It is technically easier to buffer with him online, but I'm referring to serious lag, not playing the guy the next state over lag.

Ganon's WiFi gains could be said of any character.