Ganondorf Board's Question & Answer Thread.

[SuSa]

FALCON* <_< typo...............

btw weinner, all rolls are about the same speed... just a different distance.

Largest frame difference I think is like 3-4 frames..

 

[weinner]

Character sizes seem to vary. Because Ganon is so tall and his hitbox for Warlock Punch for so high some characters go under the hit box. I just tested Olimar and he was too small to be hit.

 

[GwJ]

Other people need you!

DarkWarCloud has opened up the Training Grounds. What this is is a place for new players to learn who plays what characters all in a simple thread so that they can contact said person to "teach" them the basics. As of right now, we only have a handful of "teachers" for a few characters and we need more! This is where you come in. Anyone who is skilled with your characters (any character) and has the free time to teach someone how to either: Teach the basics of the game in general and/or teach specific character(s), go in the thread and either post or PM DarkWarCloud with your information (Format is in the thread) where you may possibly be contacted by someone who wants to learn. The future of smash lies in your hands.

On the other hand, if you wish to learn, go to the thread also!

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=241698

 

[Kinzer]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0xyv7_Zobo

I must have the iTunes download of this... where is it?

I will accept answers that go "in mah lair, *****!"

 

[B!squick]

Kinzer, you suck.

 

[Ganonsburg]

I'm not sure whether this has been asked here, or whether it's been asked as anything more than a preference question, but does the GC controller give you any advantages compared to the W+N? I've been using the W+N, and I know that most people use the GCC. Is there anything that Ganondorf uses/needs that can't be done on the W+N? Or is significantly easier on the GCC? I know you can't do DACUS with it, but Ganon doesn't use that anyway.

 

[B!squick]

Can you FoG? Or do any ATs for that matter? If you can't, then I'd say it's bad.

 

[Ganonsburg]

I've used FoG a few times, I can thunderstorm. There are some I can't do (like Flipman), but I'm not sure whether that's because of my own lack of skill (practice) or because of the controller I'm using.

Speaking of FoG, how often is it used? I haven't heard much about it lately and I'm wondering if it was one of those AT's that appears, but then turns out to not be worth the trouble and dies out.

 

[Breezy]

I find FoG useful against Snakes

"Ahma recover high cuz Ganon hasn't teh jumpz0rs lolol... omgwtfflyingimdead?"
Too good to do in tournies.

 

[Z1GMA]

When does Ganon's Bair/Fair make the opponent trip?

 

[SmashBrosForce]

I find FoG useful against Snakes

"Ahma recover high cuz Ganon hasn't teh jumpz0rs lolol... omgwtfflyingimdead?"
Too good to do in tournies.

I think the secong way to perform FoG is much more useful as you saying.

Do you meant the second way or the classic way ?

Second way is Hard ... Unfortunately.

 

[Leviathan88]

Hey I have a quick question. I saw mentioned infinite jumping...is this really possible with Gannon?

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Hey I have a quick question. I saw mentioned infinite jumping...is this really possible with Gannon?

Yes, it is, but it requires very strict timing. Here's a video.

 

[*JuriHan*]

Okay I have a question.... is there sum weird AT that lets Ganondorf jump super high after a wizkick, because this dude on basic brawl did and I saved the replay.

 

[TP]

Wait, are you serious? How could you have missed the FoG? The discussion lasted for months, the thread had hundreds of replies, EVERYBODY knows about it, even non-Ganons.

 

[*JuriHan*]

Wait, are you serious? How could you have missed the FoG? The discussion lasted for months, the thread had hundreds of replies, EVERYBODY knows about it, even non-Ganons.

I have recently started to lurk here. I don't read everything :embarrass I guess there is.:embarrass I fight lots of Ganons and they have never done it to me before.

 

[TP]

Come to the chat room then.

 

[*JuriHan*]

Come to the chat room then.

see I get away with dum questions because im a chick amirite?

lmao

urg:

 

[:034:]

see I get away with dum questions because im a chick amirite?

lmao

urg:

Yeah.

 

[Jekyll]

So I had a couple hours of dead time on my hands today and decided to mess around with chain-choking in an attempt to make my gameplay more Victraesque.

After spending a bit of time working on MK in 1/2 and 2/3 speed, I decided to start writing down all of the visual cues I was using to follow his techs as well as a few things I should be keeping in mind (things about watching spacing and reacting to DI, mostly).

Then it hit me! Rather than soloing this and spending ridiculous amounts of time learning each character's visual cues THEN trying to do a writeup to post here, why not make this a group effort? We could get a thread going, sticky it, and just add info for chain-choking each char. If this catches on, perhaps we can add images or video as well. I would've made the thread myself, but it's no secret that I like to disappear from the boards, so that wouldn't be a good idea.

If this sounds interesting, or if this sounds stupid, let me know and I'll ^_^ or -_- accordingly.

For example, here's what I have on MK so far:

OoR = Opponent on Right
OoL = Opponent on Left

I. Character Info
----------------------------------
Character: Metaknight
TP Rating: Difficult
Potential Cues:
*Sword
*White mask / Yellow eyes
*White gloves
* Pointy Purple Feet
*Cape?
*White Frill

II. Scenarios:
----------------------------------
OoR/Attack:
!If opponent DIs towards you, you'll be hit by both sides of this attack.
**Sword pops up in front of Ganon's left leg.
**With no DI, first swing will whiff

OoR/Neutral:
*Left Hand goes down.
*Right Hand brings sword behind him in the background.
**White frill behind MK's head appears and moves up.

OoR/Left Roll:
**Sword flashes yellow across MK's face before he rolls.

OoR/Right Roll:
!This is all kind of a blur at normal speed.
!Watch DI after choke and adjust, or he may be out of range.
*Pointy feet above head and to the right (about 2 o' clock).
**Fast motion that is NOT preceded by the sword flash for Left Roll.

OoL/Attack:
!Unlike OoR/Attack, first swing will hit you without MK DIing closer
**Only OoL option that visibly moves sword visibly to the right.

OoL/Neutral:
**Sword moves to vertical position to the left of MK.

OoL/Left Roll:
**Sword remains visible and flat, then moves to the left as MK starts roll.

OoL/Right Roll:
**Sword vanishes

III. General Notes
-----------------------------------
-May apply for every char, but be sure to walk left or right in reaction to MK's DI during choke. Being too far will cause you to miss away rolls, and being too close will make shielding attacks harder.
-In OoL situations, watch the sword. Both Left Roll and Neutral move the sword to the left almost immediately, and BOTH require a left Gerudo followup.
-You CAN powershield the second hit of MK's getup attack after just regular shielding the first.
-Reading OoR/Right Roll is basically process of elimination. If you don't see the sword, and he isn't getting straight up(which also makes the sword visible, just slightly later), then he's rolling away.

 

[TP]

TP Rating: Difficult

**** yeah, I matter.

That's all I got from that post. I'm not leading the charge this time, though I will gladly do a few characters.

 

[luke_atyeo]

ok so I was messing around and found something a while back, I dont wanna be an idiot and claim I discovered it or anything but I was wondering if anyone has tested this out.

if you do a thunderstomp under a platform (I used battlefield) on low enough percentage it bounces them up onto the platform and then you hit them with an upsmash while they are lying on it.

now I reckon this could be teched but I was just wondering if anyone knows how reliable this is, etc etc...

 

[SuSa]

It's actually pretty reliable, and I prefer to hit with a tipman (weak part of uair) so it knocks them off, then I get to do a dash attack. ^^

 

[Moblin]

yeah, I think there was a joke about that. Ganon shoots thunder out of his beard.

also Jekyll, that sounds like an awesome idea. I would be happy to do a few characters as well. This chainchoking thing needs to be tested to see if the idea is theoretically sound. Which means frame data.

1. Data for how long the grounded choke takes for the hitbox to come out would be amazing if we don't already have it. Then,

2. frame data on all the character's rolls/get up attacks/recoveries from a lying position, both ways. That's the data we need. Unfortunately, I have no idea how to figure out frame data, except for the M2k way, which I'm kinda not willing to do. lol. That kid's insane.

Unfortunately, chainchoking is bound to not work on certain characters. Namely, the ones that have indistinguishable differences between get-up options, and characters that can roll further than Gerudo can reach. I'm thinking we can work from top down to bottom tier, but we can also just fill in each character's data as we feel like it. I'm bored today, so I think I might get started on a character. I'll post results later. in the meantime, maybe we can make a chainchoking data thread/revive the old one?

 

[ul7r05]

Another follow-up that's good (I know it's not the best) is Murder Quake, (SHWK) because it launches them up as well as the d-tilt. The only difference is the lag, but using that to your advantage, typically an opponent might DI toward you for an attack, you can just continue tech chasing, or FTilt to push away. I'm not a great Ganondorf player, but I guess contributing any info is always good. High damage % is probably the best and only option for Murder Quake follow up after Gerudo, just for mind game purposes. I hope this helps. ~shrugs~

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Another follow-up that's good (I know it's not the best) is Murder Quake, (SHWK) because it launches them up as well as the d-tilt. The only difference is the lag, but using that to your advantage, typically an opponent might DI toward you for an attack, you can just continue tech chasing, or FTilt to push away. I'm not a great Ganondorf player, but I guess contributing any info is always good. High damage % is probably the best and only option for Murder Quake follow up after Gerudo, just for mind game purposes. I hope this helps. ~shrugs~

You know, that actually seems like a rather great idea.

 

[ul7r05]

Yeah again, switching your approach throws your opponent off. Man I just got ***** today by DeDeDe's chain grab, and Yoshi's grab release. I think I am done playing for today, lol. The thing about Ganon mainly is CG's, that's hard to really decide on what approach to take. I mean it's easier said than done when people state, "Well just don't get grabbed." Unfortunately Ganondorf's only approach is CLOSE, therefore getting grabbed is an option you just have to accept.

 

[SaltyKracka]

That would be a great idea, except that the quake was found to not be guaranteed after a choke at all.

 

[thexsunrosered]

-You CAN powershield the second hit of MK's getup attack after just regular shielding the first.

wow, besides all of that other helpful info, this is personally the most astonishing and helpful news to me. Thanks jekyll =]

 

[ul7r05]

Oh, OK. Are you sure? If so, show me the thread or post.

 

[SaltyKracka]

I'm sure, but I don't tend to remember exact posts or threads. >_>

You can just ask Jekyll, though. I'm sure that he tested it and came to that conclusion.

 

[ul7r05]

OK, well I'll be sure to ask him, thanks SaltyKracka.

 

[weinner]

That would be a great idea, except that the quake was found to not be guaranteed after a choke at all.

It takes 10 frames with the jump for the quake to come out. I don't see why it would not connect on Ike or anyone else we have 10+ frame advantage on.

 

[ul7r05]

Yeah, I mean I never had a problem getting it on some people. Then again I'm not an expert on frame rate, nor have I gone to the extent on trying to figure that out. Anyways, CGing is the only real problem I see with Ganondorf, other than projectiles. IC's, DDD are some of the big problems with approach and defense.

 

[Jekyll]

OK, well I'll be sure to ask him, thanks SaltyKracka.

I really can't remember what I found when I was testing this, except that it really wasn't worth doing in any situation. Low damage, low knockback and hitstun, and high lag. Once I figured that out, I think I stopped testing due to it being a lost cause.

 

[Swoops]

The buffer for it is semi difficult as well, but besides that, at lower percentages you're better off doing d-tilt, and at higher percentages you're most likely better off with a DA.

At mid percents it might be okay, but I'd rather take the damage of d-tilt and bait an air dodge or attack or something while they're in the air.

 

[ul7r05]

Yeah I suppose your right, I mean less lag and theoretically the same knock back (if not then stronger) would be a better advantage regardless. OK thanks Jekyll and Swoops.

 

[Moblin]

I'm absolutely positive this has been asked before, but I'm tired of whiffing my buffered D tilts. What's the method you guys use to buffer F tilt/Dtilt after a choke?

(Spamming the A button while holding down after I choke them doesn't seem to be working for me).

 

[TP]

You can't hold down or forward because it won't work. You see, ducking takes like 5 frames, so you need to do a Dtilt from a standing position. In other words, hold the control stick down LIGHTLY. Not as far as you can. That should work. Ftilt, even holding lightly forward may cause you to step forward and screw up. Try and do the tilt right when they bounce off the ground.

 

[Noobicidal]

(Spamming the A button while holding down after I choke them doesn't seem to be working for me).

Gerudo, wait a half second or so, hold down and press A. I forgot the "actual" reason, but if you just hold down, you get extra frames of the crouch animation.

Edit: Ninja'd with slightly different reasoning.