Ganon vs.

[Cia]

I bet Magus knows more about Melee than it's creators.

 

[RestInPeace]

If you're shield DI'ing (SDI during hitlag and/or ASDI by holding a direction on the frame hitlag ends) with the intent of shieldgrabbing the shine while also outspacing any JC shines that would come out faster than the grab, shifting/angling your shield (this isn't what shield DI is btw) should not even come into play to have increased risk of being shield poked, as you can only move your shield while not in shieldstun. If you're out of stun to be able to start moving the shield you should have already started your grab.

i dont have 2 people to try that with atm, so I would be appreciative of any kind of vids, but when i do practice with people again (tomorrow?) i will deffo try that out.

You won't notice the difference by looking at the shield. Even if you have a video to look at, it will be really hard to notice the difference. You just get pushed farther (I think) if you shield SDI it.

 

[Magus420]

The first one is with no SDI or ASDI before grabbing the shine, and the one underneath it is the exact same conditions except with a SDI and then the ASDI away+pushback happens 2 frames later.

 

[da K.I.D.]

thankyou very much, i actually did get to try this out vs the falco i spoke of earlier, and i believe i was doing it right cause i was shield grabbing him way more than i ever used to before...

although I still got trashed because my grab game on spacies is terrible. but yes, thanks mounds for the help

 

[KILLA.FOR.CASH.]

i may seem like a noob for asking this but what is asdi? and sdi? what does it stand for and how do you do it?

 

[Linguini]

hmm that means my grabs are a mix of ASDI and crouch cancelling for the gayest possible combination

 

[ZoSo]

Playing Ganon = free pass to play as gay as you want.

Magus with the amazing gifs.

 

[Hax]

imo tutorial on magus's post should be released. that'd be ****ing ****

 

[TresChikon]

i may seem like a noob for asking this but what is asdi? and sdi? what does it stand for and how do you do it?

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=60218

 

[-ACE-]

Hax he already posted it somewhere around here. You should check out the Ganon boards more often. Hell, you should play more Ganon :> It works for Falcon also.

 

[PaperstSoapCo]

Nice gif Magus. I put it up on the Falco section.

Also sorry everyone but I have become more distant to this thread than ever and I have no motivation to keep this thread up to date. The thread itself is developing great and I'm glad to see the community coming together with individual thoughts and not sub coming to group think. When inspiration strikes I will be adding sections but right now I have other things to work on.

Hax you are obligated to play Ganon since you have my controller.

 

[PaperstSoapCo]

Probably Ganon's most agile aerial opponent. Trading hits is always a plus but with Jigg's awesome aerial control and ranged bairs it is tough to get that trade. Even though I myself consider this match up borderline even there are some do's and don't in this match up that if neglected will make the match feel far from it.

Ganon
+Mobility
+Power
+Range
+Weight
+/Evasive tactics
-/Speed
-/Edge guarding
-/Lag
-Air mobility
-Recovery

Jigglypuff
+Air mobility
+Recovery
+Edge guarding
+/Lag
+/Evasive tactics
+/Speed
-/Range
-Mobility
-Power
-Weight

Ganon
*Properly placed uairs can hit in an angle good for an anti WoP.
*Dtilt and ftilt help maintain space between Jigglypuff and Ganon.
*Pivoting Fsmashes are a great counter for a whiffed pound.
*Pivoting Ftilts can be great for retaliating against shortly retreated bairs.
*Down throw to fair lands on Jiggs at %40+ percent.
*Dthrow to upsmash can KO at early percents if not DI'ed.


Jigglypuff
*WoP can combo Ganon 4-5 hits off the stage.
*Utilt/uair + rest can equal a deadly combo that Ganon isn't immune to (bair to uair is an other dangerous rest set up).
*Jigglypuff can crouch out of Ganons grab range.
*Jigglypuff can rest you at the end of your down b if they predict it.
*Jigglypuff grabs the ledge while you're recovering forcing you to land on the stage also leads to a free rest


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Before I hit on specific strategies in this match know that the aerial and ground fighting are very different but have common advantages for both players. In the air the player who has their back turned and is higher in the air has priority over the other players character. On the ground who ever holds onto the spacing of their tilts and grabs gains advantage on the ground. With that in mind a lot of your game is just getting that favorable spacing and keeping it. There are three pivotal aspects that will determine how much pressure you could put on Jiggs.

Countering Jiggs on a jump or aerial is something that needs to be implemented into the match to gain early percents and give you presence when you're on the ground. Using moves like angle up ftilt, jabs, or even uairs are great for trading or intercepting an aerial from Jiggs while on the ground. Not doing this will result in you getting crossed over and guessing when your jumps and aerial attacks won't get countered themselves. Once Jiggs becomes accustomed to this they won't be as aggressive which will insight more aerial combat.

Aerial combat is simple, bairs are both of your best pokes but Ganon can use reverse uairs to fight and beat out bairs if he is higher than Jiggs in the air. Fair is also a great poke from Jiggs but it's important not to get over zealous and hurry to throw fairs of your own out. the punch is great but you gotta pick em out when you think it'll hit and not bluff with it much.

Spacing your ground moves and aerials. This is very important and is a nice reason to play Jiggs to teach you overall spacing because you need to space your tilts and aerials to their fullest extent without being inaccurate. Too close and Jiggs will cross you up and duck your jabs, grabs and ftilts. Fight too spaced and you lose your influence in the match. Spacing determines how relevant you are in the match.

The rest is basic and becomes a result in who has been till someone is ready to run through these procedures again to see who will be successful in em.

This is kinda odd in this match and doesn't present itself unless Jiggs is at stage height. Angle down ftilts are nice along with reverse uair. Unless you think you can successfully edge guard Jiggs then those tools are probably best versus a pound recovery but if you think it will just lead to whiffs and a easy recovery landing a bair or two to get damage instead is a nice substitute for those low percent edge guards. Getting edge guarded isn't so bad as long as you DI away from combos and bring the fight under the stage. Tech bair on Jiggs' dsmash is a great tool and merits a free recovery when succesful.

#1 Do NOT DI up during a bair combo off stage. You're gonna have to DI away when you can to avoid a massive combo.
#2 Do NOT dthrow fait and put Ganon over Jiggs' hitbox. Space the punch or Jiggs will be able to rest you.
#3 Do NOT grab, jab or straight ftilt a crouching Jiggs.

Ganon's favor
Yoshi story
Battle field
Fountain of dreams
Jiggs' favor
Pokemon stadium
Dreamland

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Gonna try and get around to this today. No work so I'll probably smoke a blunt and see how I feel about typing this match up.

 

[Renth]

* Jigglypuff can rest you at the end of your down b if they predict it.

* Jigglypuff grabs the ledge while you're recovering forcing you to land on the stage also leads to a free rest

* Being predictable with your shield grabs will also get you rested.

And so on. I usually enjoy this match but lately it's been lame

 

[-ACE-]

A whiffed side-b will also get you rested

It's basically impossible to fair jiggs lol, bair and uair (forward and reverse) are your best spacing tools

punish missed rest at low percent with dair > dair > techchase. If she has 20+, especially if you're near one side of the stage, go utilt (more knockback than warlock punch at low%)

out of dthrow, uair is reliable, spaced fair works at mid%, or bair if they di behind. Usmash is a good choice at mid% for an early ko if they don't DI

shielded pound approach leads to free grabs

If you know you're going to be rested and you're above 30 just WC DI so you can come back and punish before she wakes

Just random stuff off the top, I'm only decent at this matchup lol. Ulti had an in-depth post on his experience with this matchup, I think it was in this thread

 

[TresChikon]

Does nair have a place in the match up?

 

[Bizzarro Flame]

for jiggs I believe that b-air should be more emphasized including double b-air than u-air for spacing. (both are still incredibly great for spacing against jiggs)

IMO, battle field and yoshi's story should be counter-picks against jiggs

edit: ganon vs puff is just another battle of patience and spacing

 

[G. Vice]

Does nair have a place in the match up?

The only thing I know is that at low percents, A dthrow + Nair is 29 damage. Does the same thing with Samus. But aside from that, I don't see much use with it.

 

[RestInPeace]

for jiggs I believe that b-air should be more emphasized including double b-air than u-air for spacing. (both are still incredibly great for spacing against jiggs)

IMO, battle field and yoshi's story should be counter-picks against jiggs

edit: ganon vs puff is just another battle of patience and spacing

I'm a Jiggs main. I'd love to take Ganon to YS. It might be my first choice in CP, because of how little space Ganon has to maneuver around my Bairs. YS is tons of space for Jiggs, and the whole map is an edgeguard :D.

When Jiggs is at low percents, and he misses a Rest, you should Dair -> combo. Probably Uair (I asked in a thread last week), because it can lead to another one if DI'd wrong.

 

[da K.I.D.]

for all intents and purposes if jiggz misses a rest, she probably should die.

theres up tilt, which kills at like 25
lock punch, which kills at like 35.
if shes at the edge of the stage, if you can pull a running up smash, the crotch hitbox will also kill her rediculously low.
and even if shes at 0, stomp to stomp to techchase fair can kill depending on the stage and if their DI is jacked

 

[DippnDots]

I think YS is more in ganons favor than Jiggs, jiggs seems to kill people by knocking them off the stage and keeping them off, not necessarily KO'ing them on the side. Given the platforms on YS make Jiggs an unstoppable aerial beast, I've never had problems with a jiggs there, except sliq, but he's sliq.

 

[RestInPeace]

I feel safer against Ganon when he doesn't have space. It might just be a personal preference.

You can double stick DI and tech a Warlock Punch at low percents. I've never tested it, so I don't know what's the highest % you can do this at (Magus rescue us!).

 

[Ulti]

I could see YS going either way really. Ganon's main strategy in this matchup is running away trying to get a positional advantage and he simply can't do that on YS and I'm not sure that the close blastzones are enough of a trade-off. I'd say Ganon's best stages are BF and PS, although I think he can do at least okay on most stages. Platform camping really helps Ganon a lot thanks to Jiggs' slow vertical movement. From there you can either try to stuff her approaches with either stomps and reset the situation or just drop and then you're underneath her which is good too.

I would also like to say that f-smash can KO jiggs surprisingly early, so between this and its other strengths it's actually a pretty useful move in this matchup.

Some trouble I've been having though is what to do against really defensive jiggs. If Jiggs attacks me first, I can zone all day and counter her with a uair or something. It's when jiggs doesn't seem interested in approaching at all that I have trouble.

 

[Sliq]

YS is Jigg's worst neutral, followed by FoD...doesn't Ganon **** on both of these stages?

 

[-ACE-]

Ganon doesn't **** FoD by any means. YS is a good Ganon stage but it's definitely not a bad stage for most of his commonly-seen opponents.

 

[G. Vice]

YS is Jigg's worst neutral, followed by FoD...doesn't Ganon **** on both of these stages?

I personally HATE FoD as ganon. I get screwed up by the platform's and caught out of aerials that are fixing to hit, possibly kill as they are often by the ledges.

 

[TresChikon]

I personally HATE FoD as ganon. I get screwed up by the platform's and caught out of aerials that are fixing to hit, possibly kill as they are often by the ledges.

Ah, the ol "if my fair came out I would've won!"



So where is Ganon worst neutral against Jiggs? DL? Or is it honestly just preference and how comfortable you are on a certain stage?

 

[G. Vice]

Ah, the ol "if my fair came out I would've won!"



So where is Ganon worst neutral against Jiggs? DL? Or is it honestly just preference and how comfortable you are on a certain stage?

for me? I'm super comfortable on DL, so I almost always wanna go there no matter the match up. My platform tricks are the prettiest on that level.

 

[-ACE-]

I like FD against Jiggs, mainly because I have plenty of room to space my attacks.

 

[RestInPeace]

Ulti: Defensive Jiggs is gay. If you approach Jiggs, he's at the advantage already (in most matchups, I think).

 

[TresChikon]

I don't have much Jiggs experience, but against defensive characters, I kind of empty SH a few times, and eventually they THINK they called it and THINK they can punish but then I scoop them with U-air like CapFal the very last second.

 

[RestInPeace]

So, in other words, you bait them. You bait them out of their campy defensive play.

 

[TresChikon]

Yes, but I lose if they do nothing.

 

[Renth]

Yes, but I lose if they do nothing.

Do nothing better than they are, they camp you and they don't have a projectile you can wait all day. it's gay, boring and stupid.

 

[PaperstSoapCo]

Do nothing better than they are, they camp you and they don't have a projectile you can wait all day. it's gay, boring and stupid.

Hater .

 

[da K.I.D.]

doesnt ganon have more range than puff?

therefore, ganon should have the camp advantage here right?

 

[DippnDots]

Air mobility plays a pretty big part in it, jigglypuff throwing out a back air has a lot less commitment than ganon throwing out a forward air

 

[Magus420]

Ganon throwing out a jump has a lot more commitment. From the Jiggs end, I try to keep just enough of a safe distance and get the Ganon to jump and then reach in with a b-air if/where there's an opening or little to no risk in doing one, usually during his landing.

 

[Cia]

One thing I REALLY hate (from the Jigglypuff's perspective) is Upward aimed Ftilts. They hit really hard, completely shut down Puff's aerial approach, and come out ridiculously fast. Tipman uses it A LOT. It'll work best after an L-canceled aerial. When the Puff player "thinks" there's time to punish.

 

[PaperstSoapCo]

One thing I REALLY hate (from the Jigglypuff's perspective) is Upward aimed Ftilts. They hit really hard, completely shut down Puff's aerial approach, and come out ridiculously fast. Tipman uses it A LOT. It'll work best after an L-canceled aerial. When the Puff player "thinks" there's time to punish.

The tilts and jabs puts Jiggs in the same situation you get put in if you try to jump in. Jiggs being so light a trade at early mid percents is more favorable for you than you'd think. Any Ganon complaining about being shut down by Jiggs either doesn't use this or is scared to trade. Fighting Jiggs in your shield is 100% not my thing. You'll get worked.

Vanz when am I getting sheik, peach, jiggs training?

 

[TresChikon]

The tilts and jabs puts Jiggs in the same situation you get put in if you try to jump in. Jiggs being so light a trade at early mid percents is more favorable for you than you'd think. Any Ganon complaining about being shut down by Jiggs either doesn't use this or is scared to trade. Fighting Jiggs in your shield is 100% not my thing. You'll get worked.

Vanz when am I getting sheik, peach, jiggs training?

Delicious, I never looked at it like that.