Q&A Game and Watch Q&A Thread

[BigD!!!]

so i came to this board and read posts until i saw mention of the 9 because, for the life of me, i couldnt remember what game and watch's forward b was

pretty interesting to see that port priority actually does make some difference to somebody who plays this game, even if its just in G&W vs doc

 

[*P*L*U*R*]

so i came to this board and read posts until i saw mention of the 9 because, for the life of me, i couldnt remember what game and watch's forward b was

pretty interesting to see that port priority actually does make some difference to somebody who plays this game, even if its just in G&W vs doc

And vs Luigi, Samus, Mario and someone else i can't remember.

 

[The Prophet_]

Just reporting in to say that each time one of my best friends who comes down from NoCal(school), he gets tons better. I found out that I can still keep up with his Ganon, but its just soooooo ridiculous how much work you have to put into a match if you plan on winning against a tourny viable character; I won 4/10 matches against his main Ganon, and won the majority against his secondaries.

Sorry I didn't record this time =(

 

[Blue Yoshi]

Sorry if this has been asked before (haven't been paying much attention to the GaW boards).

How do you guys think GaW does on Rainbow Cruise? I've seen posts/heard from many people that GaW sucks on Rainbow Cruise... but for me, I always seem to win there (given the exception or two). I even beat people much better than me in tourney matches on that stage (sometimes ends up being the deciding factor in the set).

I guess what I'm wondering, is GaW good on that stage, are other characters bad on that stage, or is it simply me knowing that stage inside and out and opponents doing stupid things on that stage?

I've taken Fox's, Falco's, Falcon's, Sheik's, Dr. Marios, Marths, Ganons, and more on that stage. I've even taken people on BC's Power Ranking (lower positions) and won on that stage.



Edit: Also, port priority, I know it affects the Dr. Mario matchup (can't remember which port you're supposed to go for). What other matchups does port priority affect?

 

[*P*L*U*R*]

Edit: Also, port priority, I know it affects the Dr. Mario matchup (can't remember which port you're supposed to go for). What other matchups does port priority affect?

Mario, Samus, Luigi...?

 

[QERB]

Sorry if this has been asked before (haven't been paying much attention to the GaW boards).

How do you guys think GaW does on Rainbow Cruise? I've seen posts/heard from many people that GaW sucks on Rainbow Cruise... but for me, I always seem to win there (given the exception or two). I even beat people much better than me in tourney matches on that stage (sometimes ends up being the deciding factor in the set).

I guess what I'm wondering, is GaW good on that stage, are other characters bad on that stage, or is it simply me knowing that stage inside and out and opponents doing stupid things on that stage?

I've taken Fox's, Falco's, Falcon's, Sheik's, Dr. Marios, Marths, Ganons, and more on that stage. I've even taken people on BC's Power Ranking (lower positions) and won on that stage.

hmm I think G&W on rainbow cruise is good or bad depending on the matchup. I defintely wouldn't pick it as a counterpick though...Brinstar, Kongo Jungle, FoD are usually better counterpicks. And most people like to CP stages like PS and DL against G&W (at least in my experience), so it's not a stage that G&W would see very often.

G&W vs fox on rainbow cruise is definitely horrible for G&W. All fox has to do is grab you once and you're at KO percentage, since the ceiling is so low (most of the time). Although, it's harder to get shine spiked, which is nice.

Also, falco can shine kill you at maddddd low %s with shine kills...so i prob wouldn't go RC against him either.

Although rainbow cruise against Ganon, Falco, Sheik, Falcon could be pretty good, since they have limited recoveries which makes it easier to gimp them with d-tilt and throw combos. Though they have more options to recover to on RC, so you have to be alert and cover all their recovery options. Ganon/Falcon have plenty of post-lag after their up-b's so that shouldn't be a problem. Falco on the other hand could be tougher to edgeguard (or should i stay stage-guard? ...you know what i mean lol, keep em close to the boundaries)

Against Sheik I think it would be an OK stage because it's more difficult for her to chaingrab you, since the stage is moving. But if she gets a d-throw to tipped up-smash, you'll die at low %s. Also may be easy to edge-guard her with her laggy up-b, but the stage gives her more options to recover to as well. Gotta make sure to follow her recovery and punish.

I would def pick this stage against IC's. Generally a good anti-IC stage

Never played a doc or marth on rainbow cruise in my life lol...can't really say much about those. I definitly wanna try it out though now that you mentioned it heh. Tho i have a feeling that marth's u-tilt would really make it hard to approach him/it'll kill you at low %'s as would doc's d-throw f-air stuff

 

[DualCats]

I seem to do poorly on Rainbow Cruise but I think a lot of that is just my style of play.

Spoiler

Also, I'm a scrub :3c

I can't think of any inherent favor in counter-picking RC based solely on character advantages, but it could be a fun place to take an opponent if you feel the stage itself would disorient him/her. I'm tempted to think the narrow blastlines on that stage can spell all kinds of doom for G&W.

 

[Cactuarz]

Edit: Also, port priority, I know it affects the Dr. Mario matchup (can't remember which port you're supposed to go for). What other matchups does port priority affect?

Go port 4 against Dr. Mario cause if you have priority (higher control port) you'll go up and he can fair you. but if he has priority you'll just stay on the ground.

 

[Blue Yoshi]

Sorry, I'm always confused every time I see "higher control port"... in brawl that means port 4, but in past posts here (back when I used to post in the GaW boards more often), I remember it meaning port 1. Is the highest control port port 1 or 4? Sorry, I have a feeling this is a stupid question

And thanks for the RC info. I usually go Brinstar if it's banned, but... well, I know space animals are horrible on Brinstar, so I might go on RC for everyone except spacies, and go to Brinstar instead (unless I have a really good feeling about RC... )

 

[Cactuarz]

higher priority in melee is first port

 

[SuperMatt]

people know about the edge-jump perfect waveland on yoshi's story right?

 

[_KuyaSombreo_]

yeah i know about that, in fact wavelanding on yoshi's is just really fun in general

plus doing an edge-jump on battlefield lands you lag-free on the platform too

 

[SuperMatt]

ok so what combos do people use against fox

i know you can do the up throw chain grab from 0-30% or so...and then you can get him from like 70% to death using a combo of down throws and up throw up airs into a nair

my question is is there a way to link those 2 chains into a 0-death somehow?

 

[*P*L*U*R*]

ok so what combos do people use against fox

i know you can do the up throw chain grab from 0-30% or so...and then you can get him from like 70% to death using a combo of down throws and up throw up airs into a nair

my question is is there a way to link those 2 chains into a 0-death somehow?

Off the top of my head, uthrow till 30->utilt ->utilt -> stale dair ->fsmash -> edgeguard

Di dependent obviously.

 

[QERB]

yeah, g&w can zero to death spacies, but you have to predict DI or react fast enough to what they do.

So let's say you start u-throwing cg'ing. they get to around 30% so you know they can jump/shine out of it soon. if they DI in place, you can either u-tilt or u-air (works nicely sometimes, and can lead to an n-air if you just wanna get them off stage.). After that you can regrab/weak dair and finish off the combo like PLUR said.

If they DI away from you after u-throw cg'ing them (left or right), you can follow-up with a weak-dair to regrab/f-smash, or you can go for a f-air if they're by the edge/if you think they'll survival DI it, which hopefully they will so you can follow with another f-air or a quick n-air.

 

[SuperMatt]

has anyone experimented with up throw to weak fair to regrab on spacies from like 35% - 70%

i know it works on computers but i havent been able to try it on a human

 

[Dax]

If they DI away from you after u-throw cg'ing them (left or right), you can follow-up with a weak-dair to regrab/f-smash, or you can go for a f-air if they're by the edge/if you think they'll survival DI it, which hopefully they will so you can follow with another f-air or a quick n-air.

Sorry for the 'noob question', but can you further explain this? any videos? I'm confused about how to weak dair and regrab or f smash directly??.
edit: ah, sorry, I think you meant this. But I'm still confused about where to put the f smash?

 

[Cactuarz]

@dax you can fsmash if they're a tad higher % to where you couldn't get a regrab/they're in a good spot to do so

 

[QERB]

Sorry for the 'noob question', but can you further explain this? any videos? I'm confused about how to weak dair and regrab or f smash directly??.
edit: ah, sorry, I think you meant this. But I'm still confused about where to put the f smash?

No worries it's not really a noob question at all. But cactuarz pretty much covered.

As far as videos... i think the only footage i have of a d-air regrab is in my 2nd combo video lol, i'll link it here. It should be the third clip against a falco.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KInddVlOjg0

you can also see it done in this match:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkjWGcET3D4

 

[Dax]

Mmh i have another question. I recently tried some friendlies at Berlin Calling against Amsah with G&W. His fox destroyed me (4 stock) and I took 2 stocks off his Sheik. What I hard an hard time about and I'm wondering is: how to get out of shield? And so, how to get out of pressures?

G&W's crouch is good because he lowers himself a lot, can evade lasers against falco and at low % you can d-tilt for example sheik's fair or peach's nair. But later in % when I was hit i just went too much offstage 'cause of the crouch stuff and so even lost the stock.
G&W's roll is, in general, **** slow. his nair is slow, his fair is ok to get Oos sometimes but i'm afraid it's still too slow.
His dair would have no priority oos, I think.
On big stages like DL maybe you can try to Up B but that's risky too.
So the last thing I'm thinking is Wavedashing Oos, like HugS does with samus. Then maybe d tilt, fair, or tap a.

What do you guys think?

 

[QERB]

I found it funny that you took 2 stocks off his sheik, but got 4 stocked by his fox lol. For me it's usually the opposite, I have extreme difficulty fighting sheik unless I get alooooot of cg's or d-tilt gimps.

I agree that cc'ing GW's d-tilt at low percentage is generally a good idea, unless we're talking about peach's d-smash or falco d-air/shine pillaring.

I also agree that n-air out of shield is definitely too slow. Though I like to use gw's n-air if i'm predicting a sidestep-dodge, cuz it punishes that really well (especially spacies).

F-air out of shield can be too slow, but if you use a retreating f-air out of shield, It could space you enough to release you from shield pressure.

I actually like to use full-jump d-airs out of shield for two reasons:
1. if they jump after you, chances are their aerial won't out prioritize gw's d-air
2. G&W's full jump d-air auto cancels, so you won't necessarily have to land right next to your opponent when the d-air is over. You can wavedash, 2nd jump, airdodge, etc. after it auto cancels. Also, a lot of players don't know about the d-air's second hit, just sayin lol.

However against Peach, I really don't think G&W can do anything about her shield pressure. Nearly all of her aerials shield stab G&W, usually in 1, maybe 2 hits...so stupid. But maybe an up-b or wavedash out of shield can help you escape from a peach if somehow your shield absorbs a hit without getting shield stabbed. I need to test out up-b out of shield, but I agree that that's also very stage dependent (don't wanna be doing that on FD >_>). You could do a retreating f-air out shield, but you have to pray she doesn't jab you first. Peach is a *****.

 

[Dax]

I found it funny that you took 2 stocks off his sheik, but got 4 stocked by his fox lol. For me it's usually the opposite, I have extreme difficulty fighting sheik unless I get alooooot of cg's or d-tilt gimps.

Can Sheik chaingrab GW in NTSC? Because of course in PAL that's not possibile, so that would be a reason.
That said, I don't know, I just think that he had no matchup experience, but with fox he was just too technical and I really couldn't move At All.

F-air out of shield can be too slow, but if you use a retreating f-air out of shield, It could space you enough to release you from shield pressure.

Yes, I usually do this. The problem is that for example I don't think that you can get out of Falco's pillar if he's fast enough with that. GW doesn't seem to have a move like sheik's nair or marth's fair or whatever =(

I actually like to use full-jump d-airs out of shield for two reasons:
1. if they jump after you, chances are their aerial won't out prioritize gw's d-air
2. G&W's full jump d-air auto cancels, so you won't necessarily have to land right next to your opponent when the d-air is over. You can wavedash, 2nd jump, airdodge, etc. after it auto cancels. Also, a lot of players don't know about the d-air's second hit, just sayin lol.

This is interesting and i'm def going to try that but I wonder if it's fast enough. I'll try .

However against Peach, I really don't think G&W can do anything about her shield pressure. Nearly all of her aerials shield stab G&W, usually in 1, maybe 2 hits...so stupid.

Mmh, I don't know why you say that, I've played Armada (I don't think there are faster peach) and for example this seems to work (against the nair). But I understand that it's risky because if she does a down smash you might get *****.
Still I also think that yes, Game and Watch player must learn to use the lighter shield, absolutely. His shield is just nonsense and everything shield stab's him.
Also, while I was at Berlin Calling Ice showed me that there is a way to pass from normal shield to light shield Immediately. And I really mean that, but it looks so **** hard to perform, so let's just light shield with L&R.

But maybe an up-b or wavedash out of shield can help you escape from a peach if somehow your shield absorbs a hit without getting shield stabbed. I need to test out up-b out of shield, but I agree that that's also very stage dependent (don't wanna be doing that on FD >_>). You could do a retreating f-air out shield, but you have to pray she doesn't jab you first. Peach is a *****.

Yeah, if she jabs you can't do that =(. I have to try immediate wavedashing oos to d tilt\jab.

 

[QERB]

Can Sheik chaingrab GW in NTSC? Because of course in PAL that's not possibile, so that would be a reason.

haha you're so lucky! yeah...sheik cg's g&w all day in NTSC, it's depressing. It's almost like, if you get grabbed, she can cg you until like 50/60's, then u-smash/f-air, buh-bye stock. You got it good in PAL

As for falco, i agree, f-air oos just doesn't work. I basically try my best to not get myself in a pillaring situation using u-tilt, escaping to platforms if i need to, space/retreating f-airs, etc.

 

[Cactuarz]

O.o to escape sheild pressure I find that light shielding then sheild DI'ing away works very well since G&W just slides way off. especially on platforms or close to the edge cause you can fall off and jump up with an aerial really well.

up-b OoS used to be a favorite till i started abusing light shield sliding, but only when your opponent is mid-high %/in air and a tall platform is above you (FoD/DL64/KJ64/etc.)

WD OoS is fun but you really have to read the sheild pressure well or you're just gonna get hit when you jump =s

Just light sheild it and DI away, but only if your light sheild is big enough to cover your pokey spots =)

 

[dragnet4000]

I've noticed that the chef of G&W stops upward momentum.
In one match, instead of doing the upb, I did the standard b, and started going downward, having no upward momentum at all. I died and I was angry, but that was besides the point.

Could that aid in not getting killed off the top, or am I pipe dreaming?

 

[*P*L*U*R*]

Pipedream. Big one

 

[SuperMatt]

i find sheik easier than fox also for some reason

 

[DualCats]

I hate fighting fox :[ I play Forward frequently and he destroys me with a nasty combination of shine-spikes and shffl'd dairs.

Speaking of which: how do I escape said shuffl'd dairs? I try shield DI and I get grabbed. I try SDI and I get nair'd in the face.

Or is my problem just that Forward is freaking good? :V

 

[QERB]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ND8B-hiNIZ4

but hmm seriously, the best way to deal with a shffl'd d-air is to wavedash back, since it's one of foxes easiest aerials to punish (not saying it's easy, just the easiest out of all of them lol).

If he already caught your shield and you didn't have time to wd back, your last resort really is to try to up-b out of shield and hope it comes out before his grab/n-air. That's about all your options methinks.

But if you do wavedash back, d-tilt combos galore! So def try your best to avoid it. It's easier to avoid aerials against fox because his lasers aren't like falco's, but again, it still ain't easy lol.

 

[DualCats]

I thought about up-b OoS, but I didn't think it was worth risking getting uair'd D:,' I'll have to at least give it a try, though. I might be safer if I've got platforms. ;3

The problem with playing Forward is that he's really hip to my mind games. He's not predictable enough to just wavedash -> dtilt. Usually I start getting drilled out of a tech-chase or missed grab.

Dammit, Forward.

 

[_KuyaSombreo_]

Fo'wid Son!
anyway im going to a tourney on saturday, and im gonna probably be playing phanna and a lot of other samus players too

what's a good strategy against samus?

 

[Cactuarz]

@kuya pick jigglypuff... i hate that matchup

 

[*P*L*U*R*]

Ummmm, crouching powersheild
Don't get crouch-canceled
Juggle her as much as you can.
Don't be afraid to jump all the way out there to gimp her recovery. It may have a lot of range but it's predictable.
Don't get crouch-cancelled.
If you can't powersheild, lightsheild.
Platforms.
Don't ****ing get crouch-cancelled.
Like, ever.
Seriously.

 

[Cactuarz]

don't get CC"d as in don't let them CC your attacks?

 

[QERB]

don't get CC"d as in don't let them CC your attacks?

yes.

don't forget you can f-air her missiles, you don't always have to dodge/powershield them.

Be ready to tech the edge when you're recovering in case you miss sweet spot. Samus' u-tilt is a beast.

When you get samus above you on a stage with platforms, try to keep her there! She can't do much about u-air and u-tilt, but be careful about her d-smash/d-tilt, try to hit her from directly beneath her to avoid them.

I agree with PLUR, using f-airs/n-airs as an edgeguard aggressively will screw her up.

There's a lot of ways to edge-guard samus, d-air/f-air/n-air/key spike/d-tilt etc. Sooooo make sure you know which one you're going to do in which situation. I honestly don't know which is best where, but I usually like to hog the edge first, then react accordingly. Her up-b can catch you off guard if used early so staying on stage might mess up. Also, I'm not sure if d-tilt will hit samus if she sweet spots her up-b. Probably stage dependent?
Meh, ionno

 

[Cactuarz]

only thing i know about fighting samus is that nairs **** samus off stage, but if samus needs to bomb recover just run out there and tank a couple down b's, you take a small bit of damage but their recovery gets messed up =)

 

[*P*L*U*R*]

I just figured I'd say that sometimes if you Bair people on the ground and they end up OTG, you can pivot a jab reset. It's so freaking cool. Bair has a lot less cooldown than I originally thought.

 

[Cactuarz]

um >.> just had a random thought pop in my head, if someone is CC'ing you at low %'s, dtilt > jab reset would = **** yes? or is there something i'm not thinking of

 

[Nocturnalist]

um >.> just had a random thought pop in my head, if someone is CC'ing you at low %'s, dtilt > jab reset would = **** yes? or is there something i'm not thinking of

i jab before i dtilt so you can actually get them off the ground. **** you say? against who?

 

[KirbyKaze]

It would probably be **** against anyone you could reset at that percent.

Free F-smashes or grabs tend to be good.