Q&A Game and Watch Q&A Thread

[Karmatrix]

Hi Guys! I have a question get this thread alive and kicking again!

What are good situations to jab in? I played at a tourney at my high school with G&W (got 3rd yay!), but I don't recall ever using jab. I know it leads into a lot of things like grab, dtilt, etc. but I just don't know when to use it.

Thanks!

 

[Crezyte]

This is a hard question for me, because I was a jab happy watch... but basically I used it a lot out of a wavedash/waveland forward into the space of the opponent when they weren't expecting it (during their dash dance) or just after they whiffed a move.
I also used jab to beat out improperly spaced aerials via pivoting. If you expect a falco to d-air you or a fox to n-air you with full momentum and you can dash at the edge of their range, you can jab them in mid air which stops their move and really messes with their personal momentum.

Jab is also a good option to punish people who are trying to condition you to shield so that they can get a free grab. If they try to empty jump into your space or just dash in, you pop em with the insecticide.

Jab is also the best thing to do after one of your moves clanks with another. Speaking in terms of the marth matchup, the best way for GnW to win is to change his playstyle to suit the kind of Marth he is playing against. Against a d-tilt or f-smash happy marth, you can OFTEN get away with clanking a dash attack with either of the aforementioned moves and going for a jab, since GnW's jab is faster than Marth's. Of course, this leads into a mind game between you and the Marth after a move clanks if the marth notices you jabbing a lot but that situation is really in depth and this comment is big enough already.

 

[GCS Gaming Customs]

Well spaced rapid jab can also catch a lot of people who just wait and crouch at low percents.. easy 20% and will cut off their momentum, plus you can usually get a followup or an advantageous stage positioning as a result

 

[QERB]

• Jab is amazing and you should use it all the time. Even tho it's frame 4, it has a ginormous hitbox and also has a solid reverse hit which is good to use after doing a cross-up d-air. Gonna post a couple gifs to help explain.

Reverse jab-hit example: http://www.gfycat.com/WeirdVapidGalah​

• It's good shield pressure, and if ppl try to jump OOS they'll get caught, which leads to auto grab/d-tilt.

Catching jump OOS w/ jab example: https://gfycat.com/OptimisticYawningGermanpinscher​

• Rapid jab is good and forces ppl to DI away, if a spacie SDI's inwards to try to cc-shine you, you can just up-b out (safer if spacies are at higher % so that up-b forces them into knock-down/tech options).

• Jab is a good edgeguard against spacies' side-b recoveries, because a lot of the time they will instead expect a d-tilt / f-tilt / d-air edgeguard and attempt to edge/wall tech it. However, if they try to edge-tech a jab they will airdodge and die (lul). Even if they don't attempt to tech it, it still forces them to recover from below the stage which is advantageous (especially on BF since there is no wall for spacies to ride up with up-b).

• Repeated single-hit jabs can link together on floaties who are in the air such as peach/sheik, and can lead to grab/d-tilt

repeated single-hit jab Example: https://gfycat.com/GaseousCreamyIberianmole​

• In doubles, rapid jab can lock down an opponent for a small while (until they realize/react that they need to DI away), giving your teammate adequate time to get a free hit/grab on whoever you're hitting. let your teammate know before a match to be aware of this.

 

[Karmatrix]

How does a G&W deal with a super-aggressive fox?

I know that against a patient/campy fox, you just have to be patient and capitalize on openings you see (I'm not too bad at this), but one fox I played in tournament kinda just went HAM and I felt so pressured I couldn't do much with my offense. What are some of G&W's anti fox-approaches basically, and what are strategies to slow down the pace of the game.

On a related note, how do you avoid getting shine spiked/how do you recover against fox?

I know the first thing you should try to do is to stay on the stage, but once I got knocked off, I wasn't sure whether or not to sweetspot, or when to exactly upB, which led to me getting shine spiked a couple of times.


Thanks for all the insight everyone, and learning G&W has been pretty fun so far. I hope that studying more of his options will help me become a better and smarter player.

 

[QERB]

Dealing with an aggressive fox is easier than dealing with a passive/campy fox. The main anti-approaches against aggressive foxes are up-tilt, retreating sh f-air, jab, d-tilt, and full jump d-air.

up-tilt beats fox's n-air/d-air approach, although it's frame-9 which is relatively slow, aggressive foxes tend to telegraph their n-air approaches to the point where you can react to it.

jab/d-tilt beat dash dance grab/shine ground-approaching foxes, retreating f-air is more of a safer anti approach that covers both options, at the cost of losing some stage positioning.

Remember that after mid 40% ish you can up-b OOS (2 frames) if foxes is pressuring you heavily with n-air shines or w/e, and it'll force him into knock down/tech options. So that's a nice eject button to have sometimes.

*Sausages are a good option particularly if fox is on a side platform and you're in center stage on the ground. It makes it harder for him to approach you directly.

Recovering against fox is tricky, but g&w has a lot of mix-ups that are hard to deal with.
1. if he tries to jump out and shine you, you can out-range shine with up-air (if he's above you) or f-air (if he's in front of you). Be careful with the f-air because if you think he's going to jump out and shine you but instead grabs the edge, he can invincibly shine you from the after your f-air whiffs during it's post-lag.

2. if he waits on stage for you while you're recovering, try to fast-fall to your sweetspot and then up-b. Up-b'ing high when fox is at low % is dangerous because he can CC the up-b and then shine, which can kill g&w at 0%. You should only up-b high if you're predicting/reacting to fox grabbing edge, in an attempt to hit him while he's doing so. If you do hit him during this, it puts fox in a really bad position.

3. On stages with walls (dl, ys, fod fd), you can more safely up-b while riding up the wall, because if fox decides to shine you, you can easily wall tech -> b-air (to halt your outward momentum, kinda like marth) and then recover more easily. Battlefield and PS are way less forgiving when it comes to this.

 

[Crezyte]

Dealing with an aggressive fox is easier than dealing with a passive/campy fox.

Preach.

On that note, how do you generally go on about pressuring fox nowadays? I talked with wenbo about it and he never felt pressured because he was usually either out of range or on platforms.

Follow up question, would you ever take fox to dreamland? I personally feel like its too big of a stage and fox can camp you for days. The only reason I'd go there anyway was survivability but SDI makes it so grabs are much less lethal..

 

[j00t]

Dream Land is awful against Fox for the exact reason you mentioned.

I'm assuming Fox will ban FD against you because of chaingrabs. I'd take him to Yoshi's assuming you strike to Battlefield.

I'm practicing G&W again guys!

EDIT: also **** marth, a grounded marth seems very hard to deal with. QERB HELP

 

[QERB]

Agree with DL being bad against fox. I started liking FoD more than yoshi's recently against fox, it's easy to tech the plats when he up throws u on a low platform i guezz.
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Yeah smart marths know they can't win in the air, so then they start doing wd back d-tilt, cc-d-dilt, etc. The annoying part about marth d-tilt is that if you short hop oos against it at close range, the d-tilt still hits you before you jump over the hitbox, so then you think ok, i'll just full-hop! but then marth wd's back to avoid your full hop approach.

Basically you have to bait marth to wd back to create space, mostly with full jump (if he doesn't wd back, just do a cross-up d-air on his shield and be in good position) or you can wd back (lose stage position but create space).

After getting marth to wd back, you now can retreat back to your original position, and it's hard for marth to react/maneuver back to being directly threatening to you in that position. So now you can safely space sh-fair and sausages (limits his movement well and gives you even more space). Also watch your sausages' trajectories (lol), if you see one approaching marth you should be prepared to combo off of it with a f-air or a grab if they shield it. The combo game on marth is pretty automatic.

*Random Note

Experienced Marths know that they can't beat g&w's edge-hop f-air. In attempts to beat this they'll wavedash back and try to punish your whiffed edge hop aerial with a d-tilt or grab. To combat this just do a regular getup, or I prefer to do an edge-jump (tourney winner) ->waveland on side platforms (bf/ys/fod for most part).
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EDIT: To pressure fox you have to close in on his space, the more space he has the less pressured he is. So once you're able to close the gap (I typically like to inch my way in with a few sausages at a time) , you can start spacing jabs and retreating f-airs in his space, and it makes it way more difficult for fox to approach and dash dance. The only real safe approach we have against fox is a well-spaced jab (he can punish anything else out of a good DD, besides sausages). Luckily our jab is a pretty huge hitbox for a frame 4 move.

I tend to go for more reads after closing the spacing gap with fox, the less space he has to manuever, the more telegraphed his approaches will become. Some people would disagree with this, but that's how I play it.

 

[Crezyte]

Experienced Marths know that they can't beat g&w's edge-hop f-air. In attempts to beat this they'll wavedash back and try to punish your whiffed edge hop aerial with a d-tilt or grab. To combat this just do a regular getup, or I prefer to do an edge-jump (tourney winner) ->waveland on side platforms (bf/ys/fod for most part).

I know I play too offensively when I play GnW, but I like to hax dash a couple times, then waveland into a threatening DD in this situation. I feel like the other options can be reacted to better and I also feel like you are in a slightly worse position if you just do a getup or tournament winner.

 

[j00t]

Won a small tourney with G&W today. I might have some videos for critique

 

[QERB]

I know I play too offensively when I play GnW, but I like to hax dash a couple times, then waveland into a threatening DD in this situation. I feel like the other options can be reacted to better and I also feel like you are in a slightly worse position if you just do a getup or tournament winner.

Hax dashing is always good to see how your opponent will react to a potential edge-hop waveland. That should give you the info to know what edge-option will be the right one. G&W's edge-game is actually pretty good, he has a bunch of invincible options. so getting back on stage from the edge shouldn't be too difficult. If you're wavedashing directly into his dash dance, you could shorten your waveland distance so that you have more space between you and marth when you land. OR alternatively you can wave land deep on to the stage and do an over-shooting/invincible d-tilt/jab.

To beat marth's DD I either try to bait him to approach, or overshoot an approach of my own (like f-air) to beat dash-away.

 

[SNEAKY_URKEL]

Hey guys! Not looking to become a Game & Watch main myself, but what are some not so well known things about him that you think more people should know about? Also, what are some approximate percentages for his dthrow and uthrow chain grabs?

 

[Crezyte]

Hey guys! what are some not so well known things about him that you think more people should know about?

I don't really want anyone to know about GnWs massive bag of tricks. I like it that way. I'll give you a tease though, GnW has kill setups for almost every character, not limited to throws.

Also, what are some approximate percentages for his dthrow and uthrow chain grabs?

U-throw is till 30% on spacies/falcon, d-throw goes on for a long time, but isn't humanly possible to do on reaction until you reach about 40-45%

Other than than, I've usually only CG'ed other characters to around 40% with d-throw and did follow up d-air -> f-air/n-air and just edgeguarded. I don't know how long it actually lasts

 

[j00t]

Watched qerb stomped again. Holy sweet damn qerb so gooooooood

I'm gonna keep working on my G&W but the only thing I practice by myself is multishines. I'm so conflicted :x

 

[Jimmology]

Yo I'm having trouble figuring out when to press L so that I can tech G&W's down throw. Can anyone tell me the appropriate time to tech if G&W is going to throw me down. I'm pretty sure if he turns out to be up throwing I still will be able to tech even though I missed the down throw prediction.

 

[I3njamin]

So I'm going to my very first tournament in a couple of weeks, and I'm planning on getting bodied as G-Dubs. I still can't really l-cancel consistently and do stupid things like approach with b-air. Not really relevant to my questions, just stating it so that we all understand my skill level. Now my two questions are:
1. What follow-ups do l-cancelled f-air and d-air lead to that you can't achieve without l-cancelling? I think this would be my best way of practicing consistent l-calcelling.
2. When is bacon a good edge-guard off of a throw? Can it be used as a mixup or it f-air offstage and d-tilt always the right thing to do?

<333

 

[Lydian]

Using Game & Watch's neutral b right after jumping stops jumping momentum.

 

[SunnieHD]

I think recovering super super low is good for you too. Game and Watch's vertical recovery is huge, but his horizontal is lacking, so you really can't afford breaks in your momentum, or really, recover at all without your double jump.

That being said, watch out for aerial needle gimpxxors.

Bucket can help his vertical recovery the same way doc and marth use side B, but you're right, he can't recover without his double jump, so always recover low to avoid it being taken away

 

[Dralro]

Alright this forum has been super active (sarcasm), but I love all characters, what's up with Game and Watch guys? And where the hell has Qerb gone?

 

[Parttimenoob]

Trust us. We are busy setting up the World Dominanting order of the 2D-Titans. At some point, when the Watchman seems forgotten, we will rise. We have gathered at secret bases to study every option and abuse we have, to finally overcome the shadows and step into the Multidimensional Space. (we're still there, just not on smashboards)

 

[Dralro]

Okay, I'm down.