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Q&A Game and Watch Q&A Thread

Cactuarz

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 24, 2006
Messages
876
Location
G&W House, Oklahoma
I ledgehop nair a lot actually, if they think you're going to ledgehop fair this punishes their attempted punish. Nair is pretty decent for spacing if you edge cancel it too (not hard at all with G&W) You can also full hop nair and waveland it for safety if you want to. It definately has it's uses
 

DualCats

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 24, 2009
Messages
502
Nair is great just for controlling space. I don't think it's really a big deal that it can't be l-cancelled, especially considering that for a lot of its applications, it will be over before you land anyway. It's not really useful for comboing outside of scenarios with wonky DI at low percent.

You can nair through the bottom of the stage on battlefield, too. I once ended a set against a random with this and he was pretty mad about it. ヽ(´ー`)ノ
 

QERB

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 8, 2006
Messages
437
Location
Central Jersey
I ledgehop nair a lot actually, if they think you're going to ledgehop fair this punishes their attempted punish.
This.

Condition opponent with edge hop f-air until they learn and then do this-> big momentum swing/regain stage control
 

QERB

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 8, 2006
Messages
437
Location
Central Jersey
Yes the movie is so ingenious! I actually have never watched the sequels or knew that they existed! But I have seen the original movie like 100 times lol it's my fave..
 

The Phenom

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 6, 2007
Messages
1,213
Location
California,(818),Los Angeles
The Brave Little Toaster! Lol thought of that not to long ago and also The Brave Little Engine that Could.

If anyone besides Aaron wants to see recent vids of me let me know.
---------
CLASS OF 2009!!!
 

BSeeD

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 10, 2007
Messages
281
Im happy I got lost in G&W boards just so I can see ur avatar QERB :)
 

S7GF

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 19, 2013
Messages
223
Location
West St. Paul, MN
I noticed the G&W forum is pretty dead, but I want to help revive it. G&W, I believe, has true potential. So here come the questions:

1. It seems hitting the enemy on different parts of his nair imposes different knockbacks and trajectory. Is this true?

2. What do you think about full hop bairs as an approach method?

3. What do you think about wavedash>d-tilt approach? I like it.

4. Is G&W's u-tilt a good option for juggling? Should it be avoided and chaingrabbing be used more?
 

QERB

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 8, 2006
Messages
437
Location
Central Jersey
I noticed the G&W forum is pretty dead, but I want to help revive it. G&W, I believe, has true potential. So here come the questions:

1. It seems hitting the enemy on different parts of his nair imposes different knockbacks and trajectory. Is this true?

2. What do you think about full hop bairs as an approach method?

3. What do you think about wavedash>d-tilt approach? I like it.

4. Is G&W's u-tilt a good option for juggling? Should it be avoided and chaingrabbing be used more?
hey s7gf

1. yes it is true that hitting on different parts of the n-air has different knockbacks and trajectories. As far as I know, it works kind of like marth's f-smash. The closer to the tip you hit with it, the greater knockback it has, as well as greater horizontal trajectory. Hitting with the center, thus has less knockback and lower horizontal trajectory.

2. I like using full-hop bairs but more-so as shield-pressure if my opponent is on a platform above me. Using it on FD, for example, would leave you potentially vulnerable after the b-air ends against faster characters like fox/falcon. However using a retreating/edge-cancelled b-air against your opponent on a platform, IMO, would be quite a safe option as well as heavy shield pressure.

3. I like it too. It works pretty well against most characters, just not against faster characters like fox, who can punish a missed d-tilt out of a dash dance or OOS shine. Against faster characters I tend to go for dash crouch cancelled jabs and WD jabs (shoutouts to Phenom). If you find your opponent tends to be catching to to this approach, sometimes jabbing twice can add a bit of mix-up and catch them off-guard attempting to punish your previous jab.

4. It can be good for juggling, but a good player will DI away from it, I would suggest starting a combo off of a successful u-tilt at lower %'s against most characters, or connect with an n-air at higher %'s to get them off stage. I am all for chaingrabbing as well, whichever choice you believe will get you more damage I would suggest.
 

S7GF

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 19, 2013
Messages
223
Location
West St. Paul, MN
Thanks for the comments. Any advice on landing u-airs more consistently? The hitbox to me just... feels really weird. It's my least favorite aerial because I just can't seem to land both hits...
 

StickandFluid

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 21, 2011
Messages
95
Location
Los Angeles California *'.≈NASA≈.'*
Thanks for the comments. Any advice on landing u-airs more consistently? The hitbox to me just... feels really weird. It's my least favorite aerial because I just can't seem to land both hits...
my advice to you is use up B a lot, don't get to involved in old G&W meta game, it's going to effect you badly lol also don't count out anything, everything G&W has is useful in it's own way.
 

S7GF

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 19, 2013
Messages
223
Location
West St. Paul, MN
my advice to you is use up B a lot, don't get to involved in old G&W meta game, it's going to effect you badly lol also don't count out anything, everything G&W has is useful in it's own way.
Yeah, I know what you mean. And to be honest, I don't know what his old meta was or what his new meta is. I just know what I'm doing right now which seems to work against novice players, lol.
 

StickandFluid

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 21, 2011
Messages
95
Location
Los Angeles California *'.≈NASA≈.'*
Yeah, I know what you mean. And to be honest, I don't know what his old meta was or what his new meta is. I just know what I'm doing right now which seems to work against novice players, lol.
if we are talking up and coming 2013 meta with players like QERB and The Phenom, lots of up B, sausages,jabs, and limiting your ariels (not just using them but planning the right moment where you know it will hit so you don't get badly punished) and as for his old meta game
F-AIR!!!
 

S7GF

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 19, 2013
Messages
223
Location
West St. Paul, MN
if we are talking up and coming 2013 meta with players like QERB and The Phenom, lots of up B, sausages,jabs, and limiting your ariels (not just using them but planning the right moment where you know it will hit so you don't get badly punished) and as for his old meta game
F-AIR!!!
Interesting. Alright, thanks for the comment. I'm sure when I start playing against other people, which will be very soon, I'll be experimenting around and finding my own playstyle. I'll keep you guys updated.
 

Kadano

Magical Express
Joined
Feb 26, 2009
Messages
2,160
Location
Vienna, Austria
1. yes it is true that hitting on different parts of the n-air has different knockbacks and trajectories. As far as I know, it works kind of like marth's f-smash. The closer to the tip you hit with it, the greater knockback it has, as well as greater horizontal trajectory. Hitting with the center, thus has less knockback and lower horizontal trajectory.
I just checked nair’s attributes and, at least in NTSC 1.0, it has only one huge hitbox. So hitting with the center is not different from hitting with the outer parts.
 

S7GF

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 19, 2013
Messages
223
Location
West St. Paul, MN
I just checked nair’s attributes and, at least in NTSC 1.0, it has only one huge hitbox. So hitting with the center is not different from hitting with the outer parts.
What about Mr. Game and Watch's downsmash? If you hit in the center of the hitbox, it has very little trajectory and hitstun. If you hit on the tip of the hitbox, it has great upward trajectory and hitstun.
 

Kadano

Magical Express
Joined
Feb 26, 2009
Messages
2,160
Location
Vienna, Austria
What about Mr. Game and Watch's downsmash? If you hit in the center of the hitbox, it has very little trajectory and hitstun. If you hit on the tip of the hitbox, it has great upward trajectory and hitstun.
Dsmash has 4 hitboxes, not 1. The two smaller ones at his hands have a 20° angle, deal 10 damage and only have 50 knockback growth, whereas his hammer hitboxes have 80°, 16% and 90 KBG.
 

S7GF

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 19, 2013
Messages
223
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West St. Paul, MN
Dsmash has 4 hitboxes, not 1. The two smaller ones at his hands have a 20° angle, deal 10 damage and only have 50 knockback growth, whereas his hammer hitboxes have 80°, 16% and 90 KBG.
Oh, really? Where exactly is this information? (Not being sarcastic - legitimately want to know.)
 

Kadano

Magical Express
Joined
Feb 26, 2009
Messages
2,160
Location
Vienna, Austria
Oh, really? Where exactly is this information? (Not being sarcastic - legitimately want to know.)
http://smashboards.com/threads/game-watch-hitboxes-and-frame-data.303618/
For in-depth hitbox data (damage, KBG, angle) you need to look for it in an awesome Excel file I re-uploaded here (unfortunately I don’t know who the original author is): http://www.mediafire.com/download/hmlse4b48i7f5r3/SSBM_Hitboxes_(NTSC_1.0).xlsx
You can also view Melee’s internal files directly, but for that you need the program Master Hand as well as a Melee .iso/gcm.
 

S7GF

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 19, 2013
Messages
223
Location
West St. Paul, MN
http://smashboards.com/threads/game-watch-hitboxes-and-frame-data.303618/
For in-depth hitbox data (damage, KBG, angle) you need to look for it in an awesome Excel file I re-uploaded here (unfortunately I don’t know who the original author is): http://www.mediafire.com/download/hmlse4b48i7f5r3/SSBM_Hitboxes_(NTSC_1.0).xlsx
You can also view Melee’s internal files directly, but for that you need the program Master Hand as well as a Melee .iso/gcm.
Thanks. I appreciate it!
 

bubbaking

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 30, 2010
Messages
6,895
Location
Baldwin, NY, USA or Alexandria, VA, USA (Pick one)
I just checked nair’s attributes and, at least in NTSC 1.0, it has only one huge hitbox. So hitting with the center is not different from hitting with the outer parts.
I don't think that's how hitboxes work. I believe when one hits with different areas of the same hitbox, that hitbox can send the opponent in different directions. For example, as far as I know, Marth's fair is also one sweeping hitbox and it does what QERB said it does. Also, IIRC, Falcon's bair is one hitbox but if you hit with the back of it (his fist), it sends the opponent backwards, and if you hit with the front of it (Falcon's chest), it sends the opponent forwards. I mean, if G&W's entire nair hitbox always sent the opponent in the same direction regardless of where it connected, you'd have opponents being hit by the right side of the 'chute but being sent to the left, or some jank like that. I think QERB is correct on this one.
 

S7GF

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 19, 2013
Messages
223
Location
West St. Paul, MN
I don't think that's how hitboxes work. I believe when one hits with different areas of the same hitbox, that hitbox can send the opponent in different directions. For example, as far as I know, Marth's fair is also one sweeping hitbox and it does what QERB said it does. Also, IIRC, Falcon's bair is one hitbox but if you hit with the back of it (his fist), it sends the opponent backwards, and if you hit with the front of it (Falcon's chest), it sends the opponent forwards. I mean, if G&W's entire nair hitbox always sent the opponent in the same direction regardless of where it connected, you'd have opponents being hit by the right side of the 'chute but being sent to the left, or some jank like that. I think QERB is correct on this one.
I mainly brought it up because I noticed that hitting the very top edge of the parachute had great horizontal directory similar to Sheik's fair, while hitting inside the chute had more vertical trajectory/
 

Kadano

Magical Express
Joined
Feb 26, 2009
Messages
2,160
Location
Vienna, Austria
I don't think that's how hitboxes work. I believe when one hits with different areas of the same hitbox, that hitbox can send the opponent in different directions. For example, as far as I know, Marth's fair is also one sweeping hitbox and it does what QERB said it does. Also, IIRC, Falcon's bair is one hitbox but if you hit with the back of it (his fist), it sends the opponent backwards, and if you hit with the front of it (Falcon's chest), it sends the opponent forwards. I mean, if G&W's entire nair hitbox always sent the opponent in the same direction regardless of where it connected, you'd have opponents being hit by the right side of the 'chute but being sent to the left, or some jank like that. I think QERB is correct on this one.
Every hitbox can hit reversed—if the opponent is on the right side of you, normal angles are applied. If he is on your left side, the knockback angle is mirrored along the vertical axis. I never denied that.
I mainly brought it up because I noticed that hitting the very top edge of the parachute had great horizontal directory similar to Sheik's fair, while hitting inside the chute had more vertical trajectory/
Well … that’s not true. Resulting trajectory depends on numerous factors, but whether you hit with the top edge or the inner area makes no difference (except for phantom hits, but those aren’t relevant here).
 

S7GF

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 19, 2013
Messages
223
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West St. Paul, MN
Every hitbox can hit reversed—if the opponent is on the right side of you, normal angles are applied. If he is on your left side, the knockback angle is mirrored along the vertical axis. I never denied that.

Well … that’s not true. Resulting trajectory depends on numerous factors, but whether you hit with the top edge or the inner area makes no difference (except for phantom hits, but those aren’t relevant here).
So it must just have been odd DI then? Is this concrete information - tested, proved, and everything?
 

Kadano

Magical Express
Joined
Feb 26, 2009
Messages
2,160
Location
Vienna, Austria
So it must just have been odd DI then? Is this concrete information - tested, proved, and everything?
Yes. I tested this specifically using debug mode. At a given % and no DI, different vertical hitbox hits all produced the same trajectory.
 

S7GF

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 19, 2013
Messages
223
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West St. Paul, MN
Yes. I tested this specifically using debug mode. At a given % and no DI, different vertical hitbox hits all produced the same trajectory.
What about different horizontal hitbox hits? As in, hitting the opponent in the middle of the parachute vs. the edge?
 

S7GF

Smash Journeyman
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Jul 19, 2013
Messages
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West St. Paul, MN
If I can get up on the website some videos of my G&W. would you guys like to see/critique it? FYI, it's probably going to be really ****ty quality.

EDIT: So I remember us talking about u-throws, mainly that G&W could tech a spacies u-throw on a platform above them, like Battlefield or Dreamland or Fountain of Dreams. Well on FoD, G&W can also tech a Marth's u-throw on a platform. (Source: I just did it.)
 

bubbaking

Smash Hero
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Baldwin, NY, USA or Alexandria, VA, USA (Pick one)
Well, G&W (anyone, really) can tech ANY uthrow on a platform provided it sends him high enough, which is probably % and char dependent. You still have to deal with G&W's completely horrible tech-animation, and spacees are fast enough to easily react to that and kill you. Basically, I'm saying this isn't TOO important. Maybe I'm missing something? :ohwell:
 

S7GF

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 19, 2013
Messages
223
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West St. Paul, MN
Oh, his teching animation and rolling is absolutely horrid. I didn't know if every character could tech like that anyways.

Also, I just went to a small Smashfest and got my ass handed to me. I need tips ASAP.
1. How do I approach Peach? Wake, the peach main I was playing against, easily punished my d-tilt usage with d-smashes, which I DI'd down more than once... >_<
2. What are other effective ways of getting from the ledge back unto the stage besides hop>nair and hop>fair?
3. What are effective tools for shield pressure?
 

GCS Gaming Customs

https://gcsgamingcustoms.storenvy.com
Premium
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Jan 2, 2013
Messages
718
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Mooresville, NC
1. I've never even played a peach, idk, maybe mix it up with some full hop bairs/short hop fairs (sparingly) and use dairs to safely regain some control of the stage and sustain a form of defense if something goes wrong??

2. First off, what has worked surprisingly well in my experience is stalling on the ledge until the opponent is in range for a fair or a nair to punish their punish attempts. On battefield, as mentioned before, experiment with the parachute under the stage and maybe try a uair. Otherwise, nothing comes to mind other than stalling and some mindgames on the ledge (again, actually works for whatever reason) and wait for an opportunity.

3. Experiment with jabs, try to play around with ccing after the first jab to squeeze the second one in faster, don't just d-tilt all the time, they can just shield and punish/get away. Mix it up with cced jabs, a short hop bair (make sure you input the bair very quickly to avoid lag time on the ground) and even some repetitive jabs. Also, I have not tried it, but reading rolls and even pressuring using the d-smash seems very effective in theory with the correct spacing (I don't see many G&W's implement this in their game)
 

j00t

Smash Champion
Joined
Jul 16, 2006
Messages
2,194
Location
North AL
Don't approach peach when she is grounded. You don't beat her approaching from that angle. You want to stay grounded and make her float, in that case your fair should beat everything she has.

If it's ground vs. ground, then make her approach. It's very tricky because peach's turnip game is annoying to get around.
 
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