Q&A Game and Watch Q&A Thread

[Cactuarz]

I ledgehop nair a lot actually, if they think you're going to ledgehop fair this punishes their attempted punish. Nair is pretty decent for spacing if you edge cancel it too (not hard at all with G&W) You can also full hop nair and waveland it for safety if you want to. It definately has it's uses

 

[DualCats]

Nair is great just for controlling space. I don't think it's really a big deal that it can't be l-cancelled, especially considering that for a lot of its applications, it will be over before you land anyway. It's not really useful for comboing outside of scenarios with wonky DI at low percent.

You can nair through the bottom of the stage on battlefield, too. I once ended a set against a random with this and he was pretty mad about it. ヽ(´ー`)ﾉ

 

[QERB]

I ledgehop nair a lot actually, if they think you're going to ledgehop fair this punishes their attempted punish.

This.

Condition opponent with edge hop f-air until they learn and then do this-> big momentum swing/regain stage control

 

[bubbaking]

Yooo, you like The Little Toaster too? Those movies were the most legit **** when I was younger! Even now, I still enjoy them (as childish as that sounds).

 

[QERB]

Hell yeee! the BLT has been my dude from the beginning of time! :D

 

[bubbaking]

The clock was super funny , and I thought it was ingenious at the time how they used that big battery as a remote power supply. I never thought I'd find that someone shared my enjoyment in that movie, lolz. Did you watch the two sequels (I think it was two)?

 

[QERB]

Yes the movie is so ingenious! I actually have never watched the sequels or knew that they existed! But I have seen the original movie like 100 times lol it's my fave..

 

[The Phenom]

The Brave Little Toaster! Lol thought of that not to long ago and also The Brave Little Engine that Could.

If anyone besides Aaron wants to see recent vids of me let me know.
---------
CLASS OF 2009!!!

 

[QERB]

If anyone besides Aaron wants to see recent vids of me let me know.

SHOW me ya VIDS!

 

[BSeeD]

Im happy I got lost in G&W boards just so I can see ur avatar QERB

 

[Nocturnalist]

SHOW me ya VIDS!

yo shout out to you man i saw your recent G&W matches fron zenith.mad hype. i really miss playing G&W

 

[QERB]

Thanks! Yeah that set I had with Spawn was wild with the crowd and everything.

 

[bubbaking]

Glad I got to meet you in person, man! Dang, you're tall.....

 

[S7GF]

I noticed the G&W forum is pretty dead, but I want to help revive it. G&W, I believe, has true potential. So here come the questions:

1. It seems hitting the enemy on different parts of his nair imposes different knockbacks and trajectory. Is this true?

2. What do you think about full hop bairs as an approach method?

3. What do you think about wavedash>d-tilt approach? I like it.

4. Is G&W's u-tilt a good option for juggling? Should it be avoided and chaingrabbing be used more?

 

[QERB]

I noticed the G&W forum is pretty dead, but I want to help revive it. G&W, I believe, has true potential. So here come the questions:

1. It seems hitting the enemy on different parts of his nair imposes different knockbacks and trajectory. Is this true?

2. What do you think about full hop bairs as an approach method?

3. What do you think about wavedash>d-tilt approach? I like it.

4. Is G&W's u-tilt a good option for juggling? Should it be avoided and chaingrabbing be used more?

hey s7gf

1. yes it is true that hitting on different parts of the n-air has different knockbacks and trajectories. As far as I know, it works kind of like marth's f-smash. The closer to the tip you hit with it, the greater knockback it has, as well as greater horizontal trajectory. Hitting with the center, thus has less knockback and lower horizontal trajectory.

2. I like using full-hop bairs but more-so as shield-pressure if my opponent is on a platform above me. Using it on FD, for example, would leave you potentially vulnerable after the b-air ends against faster characters like fox/falcon. However using a retreating/edge-cancelled b-air against your opponent on a platform, IMO, would be quite a safe option as well as heavy shield pressure.

3. I like it too. It works pretty well against most characters, just not against faster characters like fox, who can punish a missed d-tilt out of a dash dance or OOS shine. Against faster characters I tend to go for dash crouch cancelled jabs and WD jabs (shoutouts to Phenom). If you find your opponent tends to be catching to to this approach, sometimes jabbing twice can add a bit of mix-up and catch them off-guard attempting to punish your previous jab.

4. It can be good for juggling, but a good player will DI away from it, I would suggest starting a combo off of a successful u-tilt at lower %'s against most characters, or connect with an n-air at higher %'s to get them off stage. I am all for chaingrabbing as well, whichever choice you believe will get you more damage I would suggest.

 

[S7GF]

Thanks for the comments. Any advice on landing u-airs more consistently? The hitbox to me just... feels really weird. It's my least favorite aerial because I just can't seem to land both hits...

 

[StickandFluid]

Thanks for the comments. Any advice on landing u-airs more consistently? The hitbox to me just... feels really weird. It's my least favorite aerial because I just can't seem to land both hits...

my advice to you is use up B a lot, don't get to involved in old G&W meta game, it's going to effect you badly lol also don't count out anything, everything G&W has is useful in it's own way.

 

[S7GF]

my advice to you is use up B a lot, don't get to involved in old G&W meta game, it's going to effect you badly lol also don't count out anything, everything G&W has is useful in it's own way.

Yeah, I know what you mean. And to be honest, I don't know what his old meta was or what his new meta is. I just know what I'm doing right now which seems to work against novice players, lol.

 

[StickandFluid]

Yeah, I know what you mean. And to be honest, I don't know what his old meta was or what his new meta is. I just know what I'm doing right now which seems to work against novice players, lol.

if we are talking up and coming 2013 meta with players like QERB and The Phenom, lots of up B, sausages,jabs, and limiting your ariels (not just using them but planning the right moment where you know it will hit so you don't get badly punished) and as for his old meta game
F-AIR!!!

 

[S7GF]

if we are talking up and coming 2013 meta with players like QERB and The Phenom, lots of up B, sausages,jabs, and limiting your ariels (not just using them but planning the right moment where you know it will hit so you don't get badly punished) and as for his old meta game
F-AIR!!!

Interesting. Alright, thanks for the comment. I'm sure when I start playing against other people, which will be very soon, I'll be experimenting around and finding my own playstyle. I'll keep you guys updated.

 

[Kadano]

1. yes it is true that hitting on different parts of the n-air has different knockbacks and trajectories. As far as I know, it works kind of like marth's f-smash. The closer to the tip you hit with it, the greater knockback it has, as well as greater horizontal trajectory. Hitting with the center, thus has less knockback and lower horizontal trajectory.

I just checked nair’s attributes and, at least in NTSC 1.0, it has only one huge hitbox. So hitting with the center is not different from hitting with the outer parts.

 

[S7GF]

I just checked nair’s attributes and, at least in NTSC 1.0, it has only one huge hitbox. So hitting with the center is not different from hitting with the outer parts.

What about Mr. Game and Watch's downsmash? If you hit in the center of the hitbox, it has very little trajectory and hitstun. If you hit on the tip of the hitbox, it has great upward trajectory and hitstun.

 

[Kadano]

What about Mr. Game and Watch's downsmash? If you hit in the center of the hitbox, it has very little trajectory and hitstun. If you hit on the tip of the hitbox, it has great upward trajectory and hitstun.

Dsmash has 4 hitboxes, not 1. The two smaller ones at his hands have a 20° angle, deal 10 damage and only have 50 knockback growth, whereas his hammer hitboxes have 80°, 16% and 90 KBG.

 

[S7GF]

Dsmash has 4 hitboxes, not 1. The two smaller ones at his hands have a 20° angle, deal 10 damage and only have 50 knockback growth, whereas his hammer hitboxes have 80°, 16% and 90 KBG.

Oh, really? Where exactly is this information? (Not being sarcastic - legitimately want to know.)

 

[Kadano]

Oh, really? Where exactly is this information? (Not being sarcastic - legitimately want to know.)

http://smashboards.com/threads/game-watch-hitboxes-and-frame-data.303618/
For in-depth hitbox data (damage, KBG, angle) you need to look for it in an awesome Excel file I re-uploaded here (unfortunately I don’t know who the original author is): http://www.mediafire.com/download/hmlse4b48i7f5r3/SSBM_Hitboxes_(NTSC_1.0).xlsx
You can also view Melee’s internal files directly, but for that you need the program Master Hand as well as a Melee .iso/gcm.

 

[S7GF]

http://smashboards.com/threads/game-watch-hitboxes-and-frame-data.303618/
For in-depth hitbox data (damage, KBG, angle) you need to look for it in an awesome Excel file I re-uploaded here (unfortunately I don’t know who the original author is): http://www.mediafire.com/download/hmlse4b48i7f5r3/SSBM_Hitboxes_(NTSC_1.0).xlsx
You can also view Melee’s internal files directly, but for that you need the program Master Hand as well as a Melee .iso/gcm.

Thanks. I appreciate it!

 

[bubbaking]

I just checked nair’s attributes and, at least in NTSC 1.0, it has only one huge hitbox. So hitting with the center is not different from hitting with the outer parts.

I don't think that's how hitboxes work. I believe when one hits with different areas of the same hitbox, that hitbox can send the opponent in different directions. For example, as far as I know, Marth's fair is also one sweeping hitbox and it does what QERB said it does. Also, IIRC, Falcon's bair is one hitbox but if you hit with the back of it (his fist), it sends the opponent backwards, and if you hit with the front of it (Falcon's chest), it sends the opponent forwards. I mean, if G&W's entire nair hitbox always sent the opponent in the same direction regardless of where it connected, you'd have opponents being hit by the right side of the 'chute but being sent to the left, or some jank like that. I think QERB is correct on this one.

 

[S7GF]

I don't think that's how hitboxes work. I believe when one hits with different areas of the same hitbox, that hitbox can send the opponent in different directions. For example, as far as I know, Marth's fair is also one sweeping hitbox and it does what QERB said it does. Also, IIRC, Falcon's bair is one hitbox but if you hit with the back of it (his fist), it sends the opponent backwards, and if you hit with the front of it (Falcon's chest), it sends the opponent forwards. I mean, if G&W's entire nair hitbox always sent the opponent in the same direction regardless of where it connected, you'd have opponents being hit by the right side of the 'chute but being sent to the left, or some jank like that. I think QERB is correct on this one.

I mainly brought it up because I noticed that hitting the very top edge of the parachute had great horizontal directory similar to Sheik's fair, while hitting inside the chute had more vertical trajectory/

 

[Kadano]

I don't think that's how hitboxes work. I believe when one hits with different areas of the same hitbox, that hitbox can send the opponent in different directions. For example, as far as I know, Marth's fair is also one sweeping hitbox and it does what QERB said it does. Also, IIRC, Falcon's bair is one hitbox but if you hit with the back of it (his fist), it sends the opponent backwards, and if you hit with the front of it (Falcon's chest), it sends the opponent forwards. I mean, if G&W's entire nair hitbox always sent the opponent in the same direction regardless of where it connected, you'd have opponents being hit by the right side of the 'chute but being sent to the left, or some jank like that. I think QERB is correct on this one.

Every hitbox can hit reversed—if the opponent is on the right side of you, normal angles are applied. If he is on your left side, the knockback angle is mirrored along the vertical axis. I never denied that.

I mainly brought it up because I noticed that hitting the very top edge of the parachute had great horizontal directory similar to Sheik's fair, while hitting inside the chute had more vertical trajectory/

Well … that’s not true. Resulting trajectory depends on numerous factors, but whether you hit with the top edge or the inner area makes no difference (except for phantom hits, but those aren’t relevant here).

 

[S7GF]

Every hitbox can hit reversed—if the opponent is on the right side of you, normal angles are applied. If he is on your left side, the knockback angle is mirrored along the vertical axis. I never denied that.

Well … that’s not true. Resulting trajectory depends on numerous factors, but whether you hit with the top edge or the inner area makes no difference (except for phantom hits, but those aren’t relevant here).

So it must just have been odd DI then? Is this concrete information - tested, proved, and everything?

 

[Kadano]

So it must just have been odd DI then? Is this concrete information - tested, proved, and everything?

Yes. I tested this specifically using debug mode. At a given % and no DI, different vertical hitbox hits all produced the same trajectory.

 

[S7GF]

Yes. I tested this specifically using debug mode. At a given % and no DI, different vertical hitbox hits all produced the same trajectory.

What about different horizontal hitbox hits? As in, hitting the opponent in the middle of the parachute vs. the edge?

 

[GCS Gaming Customs]

I have a quick question. Do g&w's non-l cancellable moves receive any sort of animation time reduction when g&w hits the ground?

 

[j00t]

I have a quick question. Do g&w's non-l cancellable moves receive any sort of animation time reduction when g&w hits the ground?

Not that I know of.

 

[S7GF]

If I can get up on the website some videos of my G&W. would you guys like to see/critique it? FYI, it's probably going to be really ****ty quality.

EDIT: So I remember us talking about u-throws, mainly that G&W could tech a spacies u-throw on a platform above them, like Battlefield or Dreamland or Fountain of Dreams. Well on FoD, G&W can also tech a Marth's u-throw on a platform. (Source: I just did it.)

 

[bubbaking]

Well, G&W (anyone, really) can tech ANY uthrow on a platform provided it sends him high enough, which is probably % and char dependent. You still have to deal with G&W's completely horrible tech-animation, and spacees are fast enough to easily react to that and kill you. Basically, I'm saying this isn't TOO important. Maybe I'm missing something?

 

[S7GF]

Oh, his teching animation and rolling is absolutely horrid. I didn't know if every character could tech like that anyways.

Also, I just went to a small Smashfest and got my ass handed to me. I need tips ASAP.
1. How do I approach Peach? Wake, the peach main I was playing against, easily punished my d-tilt usage with d-smashes, which I DI'd down more than once... >_<
2. What are other effective ways of getting from the ledge back unto the stage besides hop>nair and hop>fair?
3. What are effective tools for shield pressure?

 

[GCS Gaming Customs]

1. I've never even played a peach, idk, maybe mix it up with some full hop bairs/short hop fairs (sparingly) and use dairs to safely regain some control of the stage and sustain a form of defense if something goes wrong??

2. First off, what has worked surprisingly well in my experience is stalling on the ledge until the opponent is in range for a fair or a nair to punish their punish attempts. On battefield, as mentioned before, experiment with the parachute under the stage and maybe try a uair. Otherwise, nothing comes to mind other than stalling and some mindgames on the ledge (again, actually works for whatever reason) and wait for an opportunity.

3. Experiment with jabs, try to play around with ccing after the first jab to squeeze the second one in faster, don't just d-tilt all the time, they can just shield and punish/get away. Mix it up with cced jabs, a short hop bair (make sure you input the bair very quickly to avoid lag time on the ground) and even some repetitive jabs. Also, I have not tried it, but reading rolls and even pressuring using the d-smash seems very effective in theory with the correct spacing (I don't see many G&W's implement this in their game)

 

[j00t]

Don't approach peach when she is grounded. You don't beat her approaching from that angle. You want to stay grounded and make her float, in that case your fair should beat everything she has.

If it's ground vs. ground, then make her approach. It's very tricky because peach's turnip game is annoying to get around.

 

[S7GF]

Ok, thanks for the tips.