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Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-
- Thread starter Silent Wolf
- Start date
voorhese
Smash Master
practice holding down and shielding then just time y->b after u get the slide timing, implement the actual pressing of down on ur stick during ur jump animation.
Fortress | Sveet
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like wavedashing backwards from your shine, make sure you press jump before you move the control stick.
voorhese
Smash Master
^ yup, also not just for timing issues, if ur holding down while in ur shield (outside of pressing and holding down during stun) u are going to be angling ur shield down, which is really counter productive when trying to shine oos to escape pressure. on that note though, holding down during shieldstun works too.
Bones0
Smash Legend
Learn to multishine, and it will be really easy. The way Eggm taught me was to hold the stick diagonally so it's easier to get the shine without spotdodging (not unlike shield drops, actually, and it makes it easier to turn around with your shine OoS). I'm not sure if that even helps me anymore since I virtually never spotdodge by accident. I think I just make sure to hit down after I jump so it's never a problem.
♡ⓛⓞⓥⓔ♡
Anti-Illuminati
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2007
- Messages
- 1,863
Diagonally would be 45 degrees or less?
My tech skill is highly lacking so I probably won't go into multishining yet, I can't even double shine which at this point is probably not very relevant anyway.
Thank you for the advice guys!
Jim Morrison
Smash Authority
Shines OoS is easy, just slide from Y to B as fast as you can and while pressing Y, hold down simultaneously.
Bones0
Smash Legend
The reason I suggested learning to doubleshine first is because it makes it easier when you have the timing down for shining on frame 4. Grounded shine OoS is pretty much the same as a double shine except you have to worry about how far down you're holding. With double shines you are just holding down and focusing entirely on the timing for Y -> B. B to Y is just the same as JCing, which I'm sure you do frequently as a Fox player. Even if you do B to Y slowly it will still work. So yeah, I think doubleshining being more difficult than grounded shine OoS is a misconception due to doubleshining being (quite literally) flashier.
leffen
Smash Champion
Can someone give me some tips on the Sheik matchup? I'm really weak at it with Fox and in 2 weeks a national is coming up that Overtriforce+Ice will be attending and I don't feel like going falco against them (even though I know I have a bigger shot with him).
Unknown? halp! ;D
Unknown? halp! ;D
Bones0
Smash Legend
Uthrow -> utilt at 0%.
Well, I'm out of ideas.
Well, I'm out of ideas.
leffen
Smash Champion
Uthrow utilt->usmash+trade with nair (cc) ->continue combo is dope.
unknown522
Some guy
Anything specific?
S l o X
Smash Champion
ask brookman
leffen
Smash Champion
Neutral game/what to do when pressured mostly :>
knightpraetor
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2005
- Messages
- 2,321
so this is random and offtopic but a while back I think people were discussing some matches of unknown vs some marth (m2k) and talking about how he got wrecked for full hop nairing. I remember the posts all saying that FH nair is just straight up bad vs marth, but I personally think it's not that bad unless the marth is kind of campy/defensive. aerials that fall on marth from above tend to have very good combo capability and fox's speed often forces marth to throw out an aerial or risk getting hit when he doesn't have time to run away..in these situation it's possible to setup FH nair on marth.
But yeah grounded marth ***** FH stuff, but it definitely has a place if you're on a small stage and marth is using his aerials to aggressively take space.
that and it's not bad as a mixup when going off stage against marth..rather easy to get the marth to swing.
But yeah grounded marth ***** FH stuff, but it definitely has a place if you're on a small stage and marth is using his aerials to aggressively take space.
that and it's not bad as a mixup when going off stage against marth..rather easy to get the marth to swing.
Wenbobular
Smash Hero
- Joined
- May 26, 2006
- Messages
- 5,744
If you're pressured just wavedash onto the ledge invul waveland upsmash so EASY
unknown522
Some guy
I'd never do that in PAL.
But yeah, if they space aerials on shield, WD oos away. If they're not spaced, shine all day. I know that OT Used to jab a lot after f-air in the shield, so just don't panic. Avoid Gettin gimped/approaching the edge cuz it's PAL. Getting grabbed center stage shouldn't be bad. Running shines if you see that they're trying to wait for you to commit to something, or if they're just running around a lot. From playing/watching ice personally. He has a tendancy to waveland off platforms a lot or try to do some needle -> run off f-air stuff. If you can get under or around him, you could **** that.
If they try to b-air camp you, just don't run into it. If they want to move forward with it, then see if you can mess with their spacing with you shield/DD/w/e. if you can make them land a weak hit, then you can probably punish.
Crouch a crapload and see if you can get big damage off of that. Generic waveshine stuff off of a CC if you can. You can also try to CC -> d-tilt if the opportunity comes.
Shield grab bad approaches if you see them
I'd stress not getting needle -> grabbed, but it's PAL. Don't let hit happen by the edge though.
U-tilt whenever possible
Uhhhhh, lasers
N-air under aerials
B-air if they try to play to platforms, but aren't moving forward much
Lazy posting
But yeah, if they space aerials on shield, WD oos away. If they're not spaced, shine all day. I know that OT Used to jab a lot after f-air in the shield, so just don't panic. Avoid Gettin gimped/approaching the edge cuz it's PAL. Getting grabbed center stage shouldn't be bad. Running shines if you see that they're trying to wait for you to commit to something, or if they're just running around a lot. From playing/watching ice personally. He has a tendancy to waveland off platforms a lot or try to do some needle -> run off f-air stuff. If you can get under or around him, you could **** that.
If they try to b-air camp you, just don't run into it. If they want to move forward with it, then see if you can mess with their spacing with you shield/DD/w/e. if you can make them land a weak hit, then you can probably punish.
Crouch a crapload and see if you can get big damage off of that. Generic waveshine stuff off of a CC if you can. You can also try to CC -> d-tilt if the opportunity comes.
Shield grab bad approaches if you see them
I'd stress not getting needle -> grabbed, but it's PAL. Don't let hit happen by the edge though.
U-tilt whenever possible
Uhhhhh, lasers
N-air under aerials
B-air if they try to play to platforms, but aren't moving forward much
Lazy posting
unknown522
Some guy
No one does it
PGH Carroll
Smash Master
i dooooooooo
also Cyan, how do you have two roys under your info?
HEUUUGHGHHGHG
also Cyan, how do you have two roys under your info?
HEUUUGHGHHGHG
omgwtfToph
Smash Master
Just because usmash is weaker?
Edit: Also I'm pretty sure a lot of people do the soft l/r push for L-cancelling lol
I do it anyway. You practice it for like a few days and it becomes second-nature and it helps a LOT
btw sick avatar Cyan, I just got that guy (I'm replaying FFT on my iphone LOL)
Not gonna use him cuz he's too good >_> I'm banning myself from using math skill and orlandu this playthrough lmao
unknown522
Some guy
Yeah, because of how weak it is, it's like crap for (pseudo) combos, and u-throw -> u-air kills faster in most cases. If it's a sure hit, then I guess by all means, but there's ton of risk.
Also what Wenbo said about taking the ledge, then ledge WD is pretty good. I do it sometimes vs marth and sheik when I'm trapped at the edge. I don't do it too much because of the SD risk, but sometimes situations call for it
Also what Wenbo said about taking the ledge, then ledge WD is pretty good. I do it sometimes vs marth and sheik when I'm trapped at the edge. I don't do it too much because of the SD risk, but sometimes situations call for it
Divinokage
Smash Legend
If it's weaker, doesn't that mean you can combo better? I mean for example even Ganon's Fair is weaker in PAL but I definitely saw you can combo into it better because the knockback is lessened. I think there can be new setups just because of how weak it is.
Divinokage
Smash Legend
Final fantasy tactics?
unknown522
Some guy
Play PAL fox and see how far away you can DI his u-smash. It's really dumb.
Also the sheer ending lag of the move. At a lot of low-mid percents, they just get out of stun first
Also the sheer ending lag of the move. At a lot of low-mid percents, they just get out of stun first
Wenbobular
Smash Hero
- Joined
- May 26, 2006
- Messages
- 5,744
Or wavedash onto the ledge ledgedash Nair
Or ledgedash grab
Ledgedash anything really
If they know about ledgedashing and are doing stuff like fulljumps / running straight at the ledge / dashing away mad fast, you've successfully conditioned them into not covering regular getup / ledgedash run away
Ledgedash upsmash is very good at catching people jumping, but I hate how it clanks sometimes even though I'm invincible <_<
Should probably just invincible ledgedash grab people instead if they're going to just attack me like a dummy
Or ledgedash grab
Ledgedash anything really
If they know about ledgedashing and are doing stuff like fulljumps / running straight at the ledge / dashing away mad fast, you've successfully conditioned them into not covering regular getup / ledgedash run away
Ledgedash upsmash is very good at catching people jumping, but I hate how it clanks sometimes even though I'm invincible <_<
Should probably just invincible ledgedash grab people instead if they're going to just attack me like a dummy
leffen
Smash Champion
I probably use ledgedash usmash better than anyone else in the world, and trust me, its still really good in pal (armada always gets hit by it too)
Pal usmash combos just as well in my experience, depending on what character your facing etc.
I've found soooo much useful stuff that im 99% sure that noone else has come up with/uses in the last few days... gonna keep grinding it out in the lab until apex.
Pal usmash combos just as well in my experience, depending on what character your facing etc.
I've found soooo much useful stuff that im 99% sure that noone else has come up with/uses in the last few days... gonna keep grinding it out in the lab until apex.
Bones0
Smash Legend
Damn, I'm so excited to start stealing more of leffen's tricks. :D
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
Guys, Fox is too hard for me to control. I'm retiring my Fox for ever and ever.
unknown522
Some guy
Holy **** I'm really bad now.
Vids to come
Vids to come
DarkLouis331
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2008
- Messages
- 1,502
What's up fellow Fox mains?
I know I don't show my face around here often, but I wanted to ask...How do you guys practice with Fox when not playing at tournaments/with another person? What techs do you drill/how long do you practice at a time/etc.
Right now, I practice hitting/shield pressuring a stationary character with the handicap at 9 and the damage ratio at .5. (controller is plugged in.) I'll screw around with movement/spacing on the platforms when I feel like it. I'm just trying to work on my overall control of Fox...doing what I want to do when I want to do it. That kind of thing.
Any input is appreciated.
Gracias.
I know I don't show my face around here often, but I wanted to ask...How do you guys practice with Fox when not playing at tournaments/with another person? What techs do you drill/how long do you practice at a time/etc.
Right now, I practice hitting/shield pressuring a stationary character with the handicap at 9 and the damage ratio at .5. (controller is plugged in.) I'll screw around with movement/spacing on the platforms when I feel like it. I'm just trying to work on my overall control of Fox...doing what I want to do when I want to do it. That kind of thing.
Any input is appreciated.
Gracias.
Fortress | Sveet
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Tech skill is like any skill. If you train hard enough, you may get rusty but you will never "lose" it.
Real world example: I played tennis for 2 years in high school. This spring I played for the first time in 5 years. I'm significantly more out of shape, but the fundamentals that I learned before I still knew. I could still serve fairly accurately, I could topspin and backspin.
To get this for tennis, I practiced 2-3 hours a day 6 days a week for months on end. We did many drills, mostly person vs person following certain patterns. Sometimes we used a ball machine. Sometimes we just played regular sets.
My suggestion for smash is to play someone who challenges you without being on a rotation. Just play that one person until your hands are sore, then play some more. Don't keep track of score but try your best to win. Do your best to stay creative; you want to be able to link various elements of tech skill together organically. That is, you want to be able to observe and react on the fly.
Practicing against computers without a specific focus (like pivot grabbing fox during marth's CG) will eventually cause you to get bored and start doing things automatically. The longer you practice during this automatic mindset, the harder it will be for you to do things dynamically against a real player. If you want to practice alone, have something very specific you want to work on. Plug in another controller or use the name entry glitch whenever possible.
I practiced alone a few times over the summer preparing for FC, when I did I was working on specific techniques to solve spacing issues I was having. I spent a while just shffling and moving around the stage normally, then I started to shadow box (i think thats the term) which basically means imagine a problem scenario and then practice various responses. I practiced spacing my dash dance and using shield-pivoting to allow me to control my bair spacing better. Then I put on a marth and practiced some basic automatic combos, such as dair->shine->wavedash->dash->usmash. I spent some time making sure I could usmash 100% of the time using the claw method (my opinion is that since I don't have to use the control stick to jump, I can better control the spacing/timing, especially during a quick dash dance).
Now you don't have to learn those things, but you should have a focus. If you don't know what you should improve on, the energy spent practicing would be wasted. If you need guidance in that category, i'm sure there are plenty of people you can talk to for advice. Ask your training partners, post on the boards, get in contact with the best player you know and just ask for advice. Watch videos and analyse them, don't just watch them for amusement. You can analyse any video, not just pros'. In elementary school I remember my class had to practice critically reading by using the "5 questions". Who, what, why, when, how. Its a pretty good technique if you get stuck.
some examples:
Who...
has the advantage?
won that trade?
What...
happened? (I still ask this a lot haha)
is their strategy?
Why...
did he make that choice?
did that strategy work?
When...
should he have grabbed edge?
should he have timed his attack to do better?
How...
did he know?
do they do _____ ? (this can range in scope from the actual inputs to how they form their tactics, etc)
Real world example: I played tennis for 2 years in high school. This spring I played for the first time in 5 years. I'm significantly more out of shape, but the fundamentals that I learned before I still knew. I could still serve fairly accurately, I could topspin and backspin.
To get this for tennis, I practiced 2-3 hours a day 6 days a week for months on end. We did many drills, mostly person vs person following certain patterns. Sometimes we used a ball machine. Sometimes we just played regular sets.
My suggestion for smash is to play someone who challenges you without being on a rotation. Just play that one person until your hands are sore, then play some more. Don't keep track of score but try your best to win. Do your best to stay creative; you want to be able to link various elements of tech skill together organically. That is, you want to be able to observe and react on the fly.
Practicing against computers without a specific focus (like pivot grabbing fox during marth's CG) will eventually cause you to get bored and start doing things automatically. The longer you practice during this automatic mindset, the harder it will be for you to do things dynamically against a real player. If you want to practice alone, have something very specific you want to work on. Plug in another controller or use the name entry glitch whenever possible.
I practiced alone a few times over the summer preparing for FC, when I did I was working on specific techniques to solve spacing issues I was having. I spent a while just shffling and moving around the stage normally, then I started to shadow box (i think thats the term) which basically means imagine a problem scenario and then practice various responses. I practiced spacing my dash dance and using shield-pivoting to allow me to control my bair spacing better. Then I put on a marth and practiced some basic automatic combos, such as dair->shine->wavedash->dash->usmash. I spent some time making sure I could usmash 100% of the time using the claw method (my opinion is that since I don't have to use the control stick to jump, I can better control the spacing/timing, especially during a quick dash dance).
Now you don't have to learn those things, but you should have a focus. If you don't know what you should improve on, the energy spent practicing would be wasted. If you need guidance in that category, i'm sure there are plenty of people you can talk to for advice. Ask your training partners, post on the boards, get in contact with the best player you know and just ask for advice. Watch videos and analyse them, don't just watch them for amusement. You can analyse any video, not just pros'. In elementary school I remember my class had to practice critically reading by using the "5 questions". Who, what, why, when, how. Its a pretty good technique if you get stuck.
some examples:
Who...
has the advantage?
won that trade?
What...
happened? (I still ask this a lot haha)
is their strategy?
Why...
did he make that choice?
did that strategy work?
When...
should he have grabbed edge?
should he have timed his attack to do better?
How...
did he know?
do they do _____ ? (this can range in scope from the actual inputs to how they form their tactics, etc)
L__
Smash Master
don't get repetitive in how you practice
figure out what youre screwing up in matches with and work on that. ie wavelands with fox, perfect wd, etc.
also when you approach certain chars think about what their options are at a given moment and think about how you would adjust to those options
well ****
figure out what youre screwing up in matches with and work on that. ie wavelands with fox, perfect wd, etc.
also when you approach certain chars think about what their options are at a given moment and think about how you would adjust to those options
well ****
Nedved
Smash Apprentice
Hello everybody !
Recently i switched from Sheik to Fox, and i'm slowly figuring out a lot of matchups.
I have two questions for you guys, since i can't find an answer myself
1)When i drill->shine, i go for usmash/grab+uthrow. How should i continue the combo at low percents if they DI too much, or just can't uair ? against dumb characters (you know, Peach, etc...) ? If I full hop bair, knockback is too weak to be in advantage after that.
2)More important, i don't know hot to fight Ice Climbers... They can just Crouch or Shield every approach, and if Fox camps, IC camp back... I'm pretty hopeless.
Thanks guys. If you have videos, it would be cool too !
PS : I play PAL ( :'( ) and sorry about my english :D
Recently i switched from Sheik to Fox, and i'm slowly figuring out a lot of matchups.
I have two questions for you guys, since i can't find an answer myself
1)When i drill->shine, i go for usmash/grab+uthrow. How should i continue the combo at low percents if they DI too much, or just can't uair ? against dumb characters (you know, Peach, etc...) ? If I full hop bair, knockback is too weak to be in advantage after that.
2)More important, i don't know hot to fight Ice Climbers... They can just Crouch or Shield every approach, and if Fox camps, IC camp back... I'm pretty hopeless.
Thanks guys. If you have videos, it would be cool too !
PS : I play PAL ( :'( ) and sorry about my english :D
Wenbobular
Smash Hero
- Joined
- May 26, 2006
- Messages
- 5,744
You can pressure ICs
You just need to be able to Lcancel / fastfall on 2 shields
Alternatively if you don't think you can land Lcancels on double shield, just get into their space, make them shield ... then try to punish the out of shield option. They can't stay in shield forever
Getting them when they crouch is just a matter of using drill ... and if you land a clean drill in the middle, separate and gimp Nana. If you're good at gimping Nana the matchup becomes much easier
If they're ice block camping you can predict the ice block and fullhop shine them
You just need to be able to Lcancel / fastfall on 2 shields
Alternatively if you don't think you can land Lcancels on double shield, just get into their space, make them shield ... then try to punish the out of shield option. They can't stay in shield forever
Getting them when they crouch is just a matter of using drill ... and if you land a clean drill in the middle, separate and gimp Nana. If you're good at gimping Nana the matchup becomes much easier
If they're ice block camping you can predict the ice block and fullhop shine them
Fortress | Sveet
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If you hit peach (or anyone really) you can fast fall (autocancels) and you will be at a positional advantage. It probably won't true combo, but you can still hunt and trap. I feel both spacies dominate more on the ability to always maintain advantage rather than the ability to true combo to death.
Ics are a weird matchup. Most ics players are defensive and like you said, ics have options against most of fox's basic approaches. Generally at neutral you want to just control space. You can eventually zone them off the stage (or into a corner) but if you mess up you will get grabbed or something for damage. Its a matchup that can really teach you how to minimize mistakes.
Ics are a weird matchup. Most ics players are defensive and like you said, ics have options against most of fox's basic approaches. Generally at neutral you want to just control space. You can eventually zone them off the stage (or into a corner) but if you mess up you will get grabbed or something for damage. Its a matchup that can really teach you how to minimize mistakes.
Wenbobular
Smash Hero
- Joined
- May 26, 2006
- Messages
- 5,744
Alternatively just press down-b a lot and ignore all the other advice you might get