Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-

[unknown522]

Salty much?

 

[Wenbobular]

I don't understand o_o

 

[L__]

I always played super safe until I got a shine in to split the ics apart

dunno if thats good or bad tho LAWLLAWJKJFD

 

[DerfMidWest]

Shine is sooooo good in that MU.
The ICs slide really far, so if you shine well, nana is proly dead in two hits.

ICs camping can be hard to deal with if they are doing it correctly. I think FH drill is the best way to get through it, but keep in mind that they may just Uair you if they predict it.

On their shield well spaced Bairs are pretty effective. Don't miss L-cancels though.
Be careful with dair I find it to be weird to L-cancel on their shield and its how I shield grab most foxes.

Aaaaaaand.... Uhm.... Try to force them by the edge of the stage.

Also go to dreamland, FD, or Battlefield. Those are their worst stages vs fox (imo)

 

[Wenbobular]

What's wrong with Yoshi's / FoD <_<
Most ICs are probably better at handling campers than solid aggro play from the Fox

 

[Jim Morrison]

Pick the stage you're personally most comfortable on, be it Yoshi's or Dreamland, BF or FoD.

 

[DerfMidWest]

I didn't mean to say not to pick those stages, just that ICs are worse on the bigger ones. And BF is really hard for ICs vs fox, imo.

As ICs, I like to go to Yoshi's or FoD (or stadium) against Fox. I like having small stages where fox can't abuse top platform as well. ICs don't gain space all that well, but once they have it, they keep it pretty well, so large stages are kinda bad for that.

Again, this is my opinion, so feel free to disagree.

 

[Wenbobular]

I feel like bigger stages entice you to camp when you don't need to

The downside for taking away Fox's ability to top platform camp on Yoshi's is it gives him super cheap full hop AC Uair antics when he gets YOU on the top platform haha

Being forced to put up with Fox shieldstabbing you with Uair is pretty annoying

 

[DerfMidWest]

If ICs are above fox they should be dead or at least taking a bunch of damage regardless of the stage.

 

[Van.]

fd vs. falco? is there a general consensus on which way it swings, or is it opinion based like every other vs. falco stage?

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

What's wrong with Yoshi's / FoD <_<
Most ICs are probably better at handling campers than solid aggro play from the Fox

I disagree. A certain level of pressure is mandatory or else you're just sacrificing stage control, but ICs are pretty good at counting bread and butter approaches from fox. WD back is too far for standard overshoot strategies, so instead you have to be aggressive without attacking, baiting them to attack which is your opportunity. In my experience, rushdown is very ineffective against ICs.

 

[voorhese]

fd vs. falco? is there a general consensus on which way it swings, or is it opinion based like every other vs. falco stage?

MOST people I hear say it is in fox's favor but I disagree. I think that since falco likes to play keep away more often than fox does in the matchups than the lack of platforms helps him there. Sure he can get chain grabbed, but he can also shine combo the crap out of fox, and fox can just platform tech chase him after throws on platform stages too. Idk, i think it is good for falco.

 

[Jim Morrison]

Yeah, I dislike FD vs Falco as well because of shine combos. Your combos don't compare to that, you're better off utilizing platforms.

 

[Tee ay eye]

fd vs. falco? is there a general consensus on which way it swings, or is it opinion based like every other vs. falco stage?

fd is a 100:100 matchup never go there unless you have gigantic nuts (wouldn't ban it either cuz i've never met a falco that CP's it cept zhu like 1 time)


yoshi's and battlefield are totally fine. battlefield has the small disadvantage of not having a wall to ride when you recover but it's not a big deal. yoshi's is a very manly stage where you're gonna have to do lots of tiny outplays and tricks to get the advantage because it's so small and the platforms are practically off-stage. HINT: don't get shined right below a platform on yoshi's cuz u might die lol

dreamland is personal preference, i like the space you have but the huge floor can make it slightly harder to tech chase in some spots.

fod is personal perference some fox's like it, some don't (i hate it so i ban it vs falco and 90% of my matches in general lol)

10characters

 

[Wenbobular]

Sure Sveet
Whatever you say

 

[-RedShadow]

Could I get some critique vs Doc?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuLTW7ro36E&feature=channel&list=UL

 

[PK Webb]

on fd falco wins i think....true auto combos.....chain ace beat javi there nuff said

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

@TAI: Thats exactly how i feel about the stage, too. I think fox gains more, but it is just such a good stage for both that makes it a ballsy pick

 

[DarkLouis331]

Thanks for the feedback to my question. Thanks guys. I'll try to stop by the Fox boards more often.

 

[ShroudedOne]

I was just thinking about that yesterday, that Fox/Falco seemed like a 100:100 matchup or something crazy, and only true men go there, haha.

 

[Jim Morrison]

Could I get some critique vs Doc?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuLTW7ro36E&feature=channel&list=UL

Learn how to shine out of shield, against doc it's useful since he has no real shield pressure, and it'll go through basically anything.
Can't be ***** giving much more critique atm lol

 

[kd-]

Tai, that Lovage quote is amazing

 

[omgwtfToph]

I completely agree with the bolded part. When I feel REALLY on point, all systems are go and all that ****, FD becomes my counterpick vs Falco. But I have to ask myself, am I REALLY ready to do this?

 

[Lovage]

i agree w/ vanir yoshi's is a pretty rough pick vs. climbers
you can get grabbed at like 30 and handoff'd until fsmash kills you at 65 lol

dreamlands fine (like always,) battlefield is great, fod is fine, don't go FD.




besides that the matchup is about ****** them the slower you are the worse ur gonna do imo

oldie but goodie:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAr7CagcZw4

 

[Brookman]

shine ICs. . . off stage (YS is good for this) shine spike which ever misses the edge. lather. rinse. repeat.
down air vs. their up b is gold (except for that invincible part. . . .)

 

[chillindude829]

down air vs ICs up B? what?

why are ppl still unfamiliar with how to play that matchup

 

[DerfMidWest]

BF may be fox's best stage vs ICs.
Shine is more guaranteed to kill there (since it screws their recovery even harder)

Don't drill their upB... Just dodge nana and shine popo.
If you hit popo out of the first part, he's dead.

Yoshi's is the ICs best stage. Take them there only if you are super comfortable there. You get kills faster, but so do they. They also benefit from being able to control your movement better on smaller stages.

 

[PK Webb]

i like smaller stages cuz shine gets them off stage faster

 

[kd-]

If the climbers up B it's a free shine on Nana after she comes out of the attack. Dodge her and Popo and it's a 100% guaranteed shine-spike on Nana.

There was a post by Choknator somewhere on the main forum that basically boils down spacing vs. ICs as 'be in their wavedash distance away and you win because ICs can't do anything' and it's kinda true. Don't fall for desync 'gimmicks'/traps and put them in awkward positions and it's Fox's matchup to take.

 

[Brookman]

the trick to not having your movement be controlled by IC's is to NOT MOVE.


also, LOL @ dude who has played with chu for (x) years laughing about unfamiliarity of people in the IC match up????

 

[DerfMidWest]

i like smaller stages cuz shine gets them off stage faster

shine will send them to opposite ends of battlefield.
You goal shouldn't be trying to get them off stage, it should be trying to separate them and deal with nana. Getting them off stage is a bonus though because their recovery sucks.

 

[PK Webb]

If their recovery sucks wouldnt i want them off stage often?

 

[DerfMidWest]

I'm saying that splitting them up should be your priority.
But they prefer small stages.
So go to BF
Because they suck there (imo) and the ledges desroy nana.

 

[PGH Carroll]

I honestly think it harder to fight sopo than both of them together sometimes.

 

[oukd]

^ that's because of the few amount of ICs experience most people have, only about 10% of that experience is against sopo



or sopos usually play mad campy

 

[Bones0]

It's because people go "OMG, SoPo, he will be so free!" And then they get WD/dthrow dsmashed the same exact way as if there were two of them.

 

[PK Webb]

I guess its personal preference

 

[ShroudedOne]

It's because people go "OMG, SoPo, he will be so free!" And then they get WD/dthrow dsmashed the same exact way as if there were two of them.

Too much truth.

 

[kd-]

I think the Sopo player has a lot more freedom in movement because the player doesn't have to worry about exposing or desyncing Nana in an uncontrolled manner. Because of this freedom, I've seen Sopos play a lot more aggressive than normal. When she's alive, Nana holds the leash so to speak

 

[unknown522]

Just treat sopo like a really bad Luigi and it gets easy