Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-

[Crooked Crow]

This may sound like an odd question but I've been playing so much Fox/Falco lately that Im starting to take off a lot of skin on my thumb and I just wondering if theres anything I can do to Fix/stop this from happening :S

I split my thumb open because of a broken down stem in my bong. Played Melee for hours, looked down at my controller, it was covered in blood. Still continued to play.

No johns. Meleeee.

 

[Bones0]

Melee: The only game where "I would bleed for this game" isn't just hyperbole.

 

[ShroudedOne]

This game is going to kill us someday. I think it's a good way to die, personally.

 

[omgwtfToph]

I've probably been using shield dropping (thats not just for showoff) longer+more than anyone else - partly due to playing yoshi lol :D

LOL, oh yeah, actually I knew that now that you mention it, I forgot it's all Yoshi can goddamn do on platforms hahaha.

k nvm i got nothing >.>

do what strongbad said <.<

 

[Bing]

Im not calling no Johns, just sayin, **** hurts, Like it bleeds now! And on top of that, the night after the last tournament, at my friends birthday party, my thumb got cut up and sprained free a bottle incident...

I think Im just going to wrap a bit of tape around it for when Im playing until it heals up again

The controller I use is only 2 months old. Its the gold one I won at Apex, so the control pad is still pretty ridged.

 

[Silent Wolf]

shouts out to LOVAGE

 

[omgwtfToph]

shoutouts to SFAT!!~

 

[Bing]

Lovage needs to respond to my message!

 

[Lovage]

shoutouts to silent wolf

shoutouts to SFAT
shoutouts to fox
and shoutouts to melee

BTW about "mixing up throws," i agree that uthrow isn't always the best choice in every situation (it is still the best choice in 92% of them) and learning the spots where it's better to bthrow or fthrow is pretty important for maximizing your damage/positional advantage. check out my set vs. sfat for some good bthrow uses.

 

[Silent Wolf]

shoutouts to silent wolf

shoutouts to SFAT
shoutouts to fox
and shoutouts to melee

BTW about "mixing up throws," i agree that uthrow isn't always the best choice in every situation (it is still the best choice in 92% of them) and learning the spots where it's better to bthrow or fthrow is pretty important for maximizing your damage/positional advantage. check out my set vs. sfat for some good bthrow uses.

werd. check out my set vs axe for a **** fthrow application

 

[JPOBS]

speaking of throws and stuff, I remember watching the stream of silent wolf vs axe and sw was doing a TON of drill->grab stuff and lovage was commentating at the time and was like "yo, drill grab rappes, i didn't think pika was so bad against it" or something like that. Then later in the tourny when lovage played axe, he kept drill->shine stuff which wasn't as good, and I kept thinking "damn if lovage just remembers wat sw was doing, he'd body axe"

but u won anyway so idk where im going with this.

 

[Lovage]

of course i remembered it when i played axe. it's something i understood and agreed with, but not something i could replicate perfectly for the first time in the losers bracket of a big *** tournament lol.

 

[JPOBS]

word. i see you.

 

[unknown522]

Really? You guys didn't know about drill -> grab?

I was telling jman to do it vs axe at apex 2010. The only character I know it doesn't work on is bowser (though it doesn't matter).

 

[omgwtfToph]

Hang on. Why does drill -> grab not work on Bowser?

 

[Silent Wolf]

i recommend drill -> grab over drill -> shine vs ANY character that falls from shine. fox and falco included. once they catch on you have to mix it up of course.

 

[ShroudedOne]

So, can you guys explain why drill > grab works on people who fall from shine? Or is it JUST because if they fall from shine, you can't get a followup from the shine, so it's better to grab anyways?

 

[DanteFox]

How do I beat link?

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Drill->grab is harder to land on people who SDI behind you

also when spacies/peach CC->down stuff, i get sad

edit- since people apparently don't know, shine->grab is a true combo. In most cases there is hitstun lasting the whole time between drill landing and grab connecting. In cases where there is a gap, people generally shield or buffer a dodge. Grab obviously beats shield, and even buffered spotdodge gives 2 extra frames before its invincible, so usually it'll connect even when it "shouldn't".

technically drill->usmash true combos occasionally (usmash and grab are both frame 7 moves), but its less guaranteed due to grab covering for a few extra frames. It has to do with the weight of the character being drilled (for example, it can work on puff but probably not bowser) and the frame that your last drill hits on (ei, if it hits on the frame before you hit the ground or before that).

 

[omgwtfToph]

So, can you guys explain why drill > grab works on people who fall from shine? Or is it JUST because if they fall from shine, you can't get a followup from the shine, so it's better to grab anyways?

The latter.

 

[Silent Wolf]

Drill->grab is harder to land on people who SDI behind you

also when spacies/peach CC->down stuff, i get sad

edit- since people apparently don't know, shine->grab is a true combo. In most cases there is hitstun lasting the whole time between drill landing and grab connecting. In cases where there is a gap, people generally shield or buffer a dodge. Grab obviously beats shield, and even buffered spotdodge gives 2 extra frames before its invincible, so usually it'll connect even when it "shouldn't".

technically drill->usmash true combos occasionally (usmash and grab are both frame 7 moves), but its less guaranteed due to grab covering for a few extra frames. It has to do with the weight of the character being drilled (for example, it can work on puff but probably not bowser) and the frame that your last drill hits on (ei, if it hits on the frame before you hit the ground or before that).

most people dont SDI it. plus if they do, just only use a couple hits of it so they dont have time to react to it. or read it and fade towards them. when i use it i dont expect it to be a true combo really, it just works a lot if used properly

its good vs people like westballz who DI out of thunders combo like 99% of the time. i still have the habit of using dair shine more though lol

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Yeah I hear that. But if they are in neutral then they can still CC which removes 2/3 of the lag (SB correct me if im wrong). This allows falco to CC shine your drill if you attempt a grab. Peach can likewise CC dsmash if you try to grab (but you aren't penalized for shining her).

 

[Warhawk]

Hang on. Why does drill -> grab not work on Bowser?

I would imagine it has to do with Bowser's immense weight reducing the drill's hitstun on Bowser allowing him to attempt to do something more quickly than most characters also combined with Bowser's up-b being pretty fast and making him invincible in the early frames of the attack.

 

[Silent Wolf]

Yeah I hear that. But if they are in neutral then they can still CC which removes 2/3 of the lag (SB correct me if im wrong). This allows falco to CC shine your drill if you attempt a grab. Peach can likewise CC dsmash if you try to grab (but you aren't penalized for shining her).

seems very unlikely that they would do that within a couple of drill grabs. plus if they did catch on and started doing that theyd prob be holding down rather than trying to di the jab up after a waveshine, which makes it a good mixup with thunders.

peach doesnt fall from shine so whats your point lol

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Don't forget, falco can also CC your shine. If falco CCs the drill, you are in a negative position not him, unless you are spaced outside his shine range.

 

[KILLA.FOR.CASH.]

wtf. since when did crouch canceling foxs dair lessen the hitlag?

**** i feel like i dont even know the basics of this game sometime

 

[omgwtfToph]

I don't think it does.

I miss Kirbykaze posts. He'd know the truth.

 

[ShroudedOne]

It lessens the hitstun. If I'm Peach, and I CC Fox' dair, I don't suffer the full hitstun, I only suffer 2/3rds. The hitlag remains the same.

 

[unknown522]

Good **** Oscar and SFAT. I was cheering for you guys on the stream. I missed Otto's matches sadly.

Also, another controller broke. I'm gonna buy one from the nintendo website

 

[omgwtfToph]

Break dat **** in unknown!!

Also SW played really friggin good in bracket to be honest. Like, deserving of way more than 9th. Everyone should watch his matches, he lost to really good players and they were really good sets.

 

[unknown522]

Don't forget, falco can also CC your shine. If falco CCs the drill, you are in a negative position not him, unless you are spaced outside his shine range.

this is wrong. It still combos and will knock him over. The catch is that you have to get at least 2 hits of the drill.

Try it in training mode

@ toph: I'll do my best. I am at weon-x's house. We played but now stopped because my controller broke

Edit: whoever was asking about why drill-grab doesn't work on bowser; it is because heavier characters have less hitstun. Things like drill-up smash work easy on lighter characters like jiggs, pichu, spacies (you can even loop drill on jiggs, pichu, and GAW, or combo drill -> n-air).

 

[Lovage]

@ otto's post

westballz and zhu pop out of thunders at around 5% and higher 95% of the time it's hella gay, so i'm gonna start changing my style vs. falco and learn how to do really good drill grabs (i suspect the way to do them correctly is timing it so a hit comes out just before you land and then doing the grab) and **** the world

 

[unknown522]

Trust me. Thunders didn't work vs weon-x at all today vs both falco and fox.

He never got me with it either.

Something really funny to do is just wait and not jab. Then they will get up in place usually.

 

[omgwtfToph]

I saw someone (I wanna say otto) do double jab thunders against Westballz and timed the second hit such that it gave them time to confirm that Westballz had indeed popped up from the first jab, then just immediately ran in and grabbed. It looked like it worked, although I don't know how reliable it'd be.

Fun fact, Ka-master's Falco was popping out of thunders combo consistently since like 2007. >_>

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Well it should be fairly reliable to double jab as a hit confirm. I can't imagine them SDIing up the first one and then CCing the 2nd one (especially because they should be in the air after SDIing)

 

[omgwtfToph]

Yeah it'd be really tricky to get used to. But at the same time, jab into anything is never a "true" combo so you know what I mean.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

this is wrong. It still combos and will knock him over. The catch is that you have to get at least 2 hits of the drill.

Try it in training mode

is that so? I dont have a cube or dolphin available to me, so i'll take your word for it. I always thought that you could continue crouch canceling through multiple moves.

 

[Bing]

I miss KK too COME BACK TO US!

Yeah, I never actually know how to sdi out of thunders until Camilo told me on Saturday... Good info to have cause you both just **** me with it, especially Cami.

Also Ryan, I've been selling a controller for a few months now, Kyle is trying it out at the next tournament, you can too if you want. Its Silver, it was my main controller until I got the Gold one and forced myself to use it.

 

[knightpraetor]

assuming you see that a nair on jiggs does not get CCed..can you opt to grab instead of shine or is that safe? i would think it would beat everything but an immediate jab in terms of frames

 

[omgwtfToph]

Ya nair grab ***** at low %

Nair utilt too but it's pretty hard to hit confirm unless you know the nair is gonna hit the puff midair