Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-

[EWC]

The only way you get reduced hitstun on a dair is if you are actually crouching. So if you only land a single hit they can crouch cancel that. Even if they CC the first hit though, they'll be in hitstun for later hits and thus not be crouching and thus get full hitstun.

So, like Ryan said, you can only CC dair if it hits exactly once.


I'm not sure about this, but I feel like it should be possible to shine falco and then react to whatever they do to get up instead of jabbing. Maybe people with faster reaction time than me can try it.

 

[Strong Badam]

yea thunders doesn't really work against Falco, he doesn't accelerate his falling fast enough to land again after the jab for very long. Fox, however, gets ***** by jab reset

 

[Bones0]

Javi's combo (drillshine to dtilt) > Thunder's combo

 

[omgwtfToph]

yea thunders doesn't really work against Falco, he doesn't accelerate his falling fast enough to land again after the jab for very long. Fox, however, gets ***** by jab reset

Oh ****, so THAT'S why Falco gets out at low percents. Makes sense.

 

[unknown522]

is that so? I dont have a cube or dolphin available to me, so i'll take your word for it. I always thought that you could continue crouch canceling through multiple moves.

if the move hits fast enough that it combos while CCing, it will break the CC (not sure what other moves do this).

Edit: just tested CC again. On falco with fox you can still combo drill -> up smash even when they are CCing (which means drill-grab works still). I remember testing it before, but it's good to double check.

Anyways, the only moves that hit fast enough to combo on CC are:
- fox's drill
- jiggs drill
- Kirby's drill
- Zelda's jab
- pika and pichu's rapid jab
- sheik's rapid jab
- yoshi's d-air
- the first 2 hits of pika and pichu's f-air

Then ofc almost all meteors and spikes break CC. With e exception of like Zelda and Roy's d-air

 

[omgwtfToph]

Holy ****, that actually explains so much to me. Thanks hahaha.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

unknown how are you testing these? According to magus training mode isn't accurate when it comes to the combo counter.

 

[unknown522]

Yeah, training mode has 1 extra frame for the combo meter to count. Like you can hit a character out of their double jump startup and it will combo due to the 1 frame thing.

Still, that's how I've been testing it

 

[EWC]

Training mode gives you one extra frame. So the timing to get it to register consecutive hits is always exactly one frame tighter than the "real" timing.

When I learn a new timing, I can tell the difference between 1, 2 and 3 (or more) frame windows based on how consistently I can get it after a short time. So if getting training mode to register consecutive hits seems like a 2 frame window or more, then I will assume it's legit.

 

[ShroudedOne]

Yoooo...Fox dittos are so much fun. I tried very hard to incorporate dair > grab today, but I was either too slow on the grab, or would hit them airborne or something. Do they have to enter the "Ow my feet just got hit" animation (when you attack with a move that just hits a character's feet, they have a different animation of being hit which lasts longer), before you can grab them? Or can you just grab them no matter where the dair hits on them? Or does this make no sense?

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Are you sure its 1 frame? I have never been told the exact number, magus was vague when he told me of it in a PM (which was automatically deleted from my PM box -- why do i pay for a bigger inbox if i cant store my old PMs????)

 

[unknown522]

Pretty sure

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

k k

 

[Warhawk]

Yeah, training mode has 1 extra frame for the combo meter to count. Like you can hit a character out of their double jump startup and it will combo due to the 1 frame thing.

Still, that's how I've been testing it

Can they do anything to escape within that one extra frame?

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

shiel d

 

[ShroudedOne]

Can someone answer my above question?

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

idk i dont think there are any conditionals on dair->grab. Fox's dair has set knockback, so you just hit with it and then grab.

 

[EWC]

You just need to time the grab better. The timing can be easier or harder depending on how exactly the dair hits but it's always possible to grab as long as they don't sdi out or something. Just practice the timing.

 

[Brookman]

L ol !!!!! ! !!!!!!! !!!!!!!


drill > be amazing with the timing/spacing of individual hits > L cancel + hold shoulder button + MASH A = drill grab.

 

[unknown522]

Can they do anything to escape within that one extra frame?

shine, rest.

@ sveet: shield comes up in one frame? I didn't know that

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

As long as they are fully depressing L/R, they will powershield.

 

[DerfMidWest]

hahaha nobody loves ShroudedOne.

anyway, I have a question.
I'm trying to make my Fox more aggressive, because when I often get very uncomfortable while playing this game and play a lot less aggressive than I'd like to.
I've noticed that there are two matchups that I have a lot of trouble playing aggressive in. Peach and Puff.
So how do I play aggressive against either of these characters?

Also, how do you play more aggressive than your opponent (who is also aggressive). Often when I'm up against an aggressive player, I get forced into a corner and feel very helpless. Its seems like I'm just not able to do anything to hit them.

 

[Bones0]

Won't they light shield? I thought the first two frames of shield were light shield no matter what.

 

[unknown522]

As long as they are fully depressing L/R, they will powershield.

damn, I knew I had bad luck

 

[EWC]

You only light shield if you press the button too slowly. If you transition from button-not-pressed to button-fully-depressed in 1 frame, then you will never lightshield.

 

[Bing]

hahaha nobody loves ShroudedOne.

anyway, I have a question.
I'm trying to make my Fox more aggressive, because when I often get very uncomfortable while playing this game and play a lot less aggressive than I'd like to.
I've noticed that there are two matchups that I have a lot of trouble playing aggressive in. Peach and Puff.
So how do I play aggressive against either of these characters?

Also, how do you play more aggressive than your opponent (who is also aggressive). Often when I'm up against an aggressive player, I get forced into a corner and feel very helpless. Its seems like I'm just not able to do anything to hit them.

I dont have much Puff Experience so I cant really help you there. For peach though make sure you are almost never Crouching. And in terms of being aggressive, its all on you, find what works against said characters and do it, after enough experience you'll get to the point when you just ARE aggressive. One thing that could be hindering your aggressiveness is simply that you are unsure of what to do.

In terms of being cornered because they are aggressive. You are Fox. you dont more aggressive then that. In terms of feeling cornered, thats all a mindset that you have to learn to control, of course we all have those times when we are like "We wtf do I do?" But you just gotta go. One thing Im learn about this game is that I hardly think as opposed to just know what to do, yeah theres times when you have to consider how to recover, and things like that, which way to tech etc. But the more knowledge you gain, especially about the MU and your character, the feeling of being cornered goes away.

I still get that feeling when I play people like KK, Unknown, Weon etc. and thats because when they are ****** me, they could have already came but they just keep ****** me. And that will fix itself as I improve.

What character is giving you the most trouble in terms of aggression?

 

[Bones0]

You only light shield if you press the button too slowly. If you transition from button-not-pressed to button-fully-depressed in 1 frame, then you will never lightshield.

You can pause, hold L, then unpause, and you can see the light shield for at least 1 frame. Or just do the trigger trick and shield and you can still see the light shield.

Unless that is just a graphic and not a light shield...

 

[knightpraetor]

how frame perfect does fox's dair grab have to be for fox/falco to be unable to shine before the grab gets out?

 

[Wenbobular]

You get (maybe) a couple frames of leeway, does the exact number really matter? (As proof it combos I think unknown said he got drill upsmash to work in training mode)
Drill uptilt is much easier to combo, but drill grab basically combos unless they have the insight to buffer spotdodge (way easier than timing a shine)

If you do it sparingly you'll probably catch most people starting their shield, or you can just drill uptilt for the actual combo
Do it too many times after drill and they might catch on and buffer spotdodges

Also depends on how close you were to getting the hit as close to the ground as possible (probably not something you have total control over anyways) so the exact number matters even less IMO

 

[Bones0]

Training Mode gives that 1 extra frame, so if it has to be frame perfect in order to true combo then outside of training mode they could shine (even if you're frame perfect) or spot dodge out (if you're 1 frame from perfect).

 

[Strong Badam]

As long as they are fully depressing L/R, they will powershield.

Powershield can't be buffered; has to be timed.

 

[Wenbobular]

Training Mode gives that 1 extra frame, so if it has to be frame perfect in order to true combo then outside of training mode they could shine (even if you're frame perfect) or spot dodge out (if you're 1 frame from perfect).

Yeah but who cares about that <_< I don't think anyone cares enough to try learning how to time shine against drill and if they did it'd be a stupid waste of time and effort learning something that doesn't even beat drill tilt

 

[Bones0]

Powershield can't be buffered; has to be timed.

Does hard shield come out on frame 1?

Yeah but who cares about that <_< I don't think anyone cares enough to try learning how to time shine against drill and if they did it'd be a stupid waste of time and effort learning something that doesn't even beat drill tilt

Regardless, it's nice to know how much room for error you have. Having to drill grab frame perfect is a lot different than drill grab where you have 3-4 frames of wiggle room.

 

[TheDekuNut]

Powershield can't be buffered; has to be timed.

Explain what happens when you powershield twice rapidly, for instance powershielding one of fox's drill hits then powershielding then next because shield was still being held down. The shield happens to come out again when the next drill hit comes out. Isn't that similar to what Sveet meant with the one frame issue. I might call it buffering

 

[Zoler]

I think that's when you switch to light shield? Or something like that.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

I really want to test this but i can't

 

[ShroudedOne]

Sometimes, I powershield something (only aerials/moves, not projectiles), even though my shield is already up. :\

 

[Silent Wolf]

Explain what happens when you powershield twice rapidly, for instance powershielding one of fox's drill hits then powershielding then next because shield was still being held down. The shield happens to come out again when the next drill hit comes out. Isn't that similar to what Sveet meant with the one frame issue. I might call it buffering

pretty sure that if you power shield one hit and another hit hits your shield before the animation is gone it will power shield it. this happens until the hits stop coming quick enough for it to drop i believe. this si different than having the first hit of the power shield be buffered. i woudlnt really call this buffering either

 

[TheDekuNut]

That makes more sense actually. I didn't consider what happens when you get hit while still in the powershield animation. I definitely wouldn't call my example buffering

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

pretty sure that if you power shield one hit and another hit hits your shield before the animation is gone it will power shield it. this happens until the hits stop coming quick enough for it to drop i believe. this si different than having the first hit of the power shield be buffered. i woudlnt really call this buffering either

i thought that was only for yoshi's shield