Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-

[omgwtfToph]

also: spacing uair second hit only is not even hard loool (esp on uthrows), people should use it WAYYYY more (falling uair too for killing spacies etc)

Can it be done against Peach at high percents?

 

[leffen]

yes

tenyes'

 

[Divinokage]

Lol Kage, Ganon isn't that "weird" in the sense that what works against most good characters, also works against Ganon. You don't need a lot of specific matchup knowledge to fight Ganon, besides knowing Ganon's offensive options and knowing to look out for certain tricks. Whereas characters like Luigi, Pikachu, Samus... are like way different from fighting anyone else in the cast; edgeguarding them is way different, comboing them is way different, etc.

It's odd many can't avoid the Fair or the jab very well even now. lol. =P But ya I get your point.

Ryan, PS into Jab ALL DAY.

 

[chillindude829]

how often is drill on a platform -> fall through bair a true combo? i feel like 90% of the time ppl get hit by this but idk if they're just failing to block or something

 

[Metal Reeper]

how often is drill on a platform -> fall through bair a true combo? i feel like 90% of the time ppl get hit by this but idk if they're just failing to block or something

If they DI it down im sure tey'll be able to shield....but nobody ever really sees it coming.
Chillin i've been told I play like you...I don't understand but. I need to watch you more then lol.

 

[chillindude829]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6zW-mzS9no

i wish that beginning part worked more consistently lol im pretty sure u have to be like within their hitbox for that to happen otherwise the drill just misses

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Frootloop don't be hatin. MW has the best johns, period.

 

[EWC]

I played around with drill->drop through bair a lot a few years ago. I can get it to combo in training mode,and it usually works in matches. Even if their shield goes up it pokes a lot of the time.

 

[Lovage]

using the 2nd hit of uair to get a guaranteed kill vs. spacies/falcon/etc at high percents is extremely easy, and really important (why have a 90% chance to kill them when you can have a 100% chance)

i invented it btw fuukkkkkaaaa youuuuuuu

 

[genkaku]

are waveshines guaranteed if my fingers are fast enough? I'm not getting them as consistently as I would like.
details pleassse

 

[Palpi]

silentwolf said something about approaching with shine dair a while ago because if they shield the shine the dair is shield pressure and if they don't it can be used for the combo.

 

[Thanos828]

are waveshines guaranteed if my fingers are fast enough? I'm not getting them as consistently as I would like.
details pleassse

I have a similar question, but replace waveshine with Thunders Combo

 

[PK Webb]

thunders arent guaranteed because the opponent can tech out or after the jab they roll away but at low percents its a kool option. waveshines are guaranteed on some opponents and its not so much the speed of your waveshine even though speed helps but the length of your wavedash

 

[Zoler]

What T. Webb said. The problem usually when you fail waveshines are because you aren't wavedashing to the full length.

 

[ArcNatural]

we in europe have been using ledgedash spam for years now (and we also had over +psing, amsah+sheik, peach+armada). Every region lacks something and every region is really good at something (even ****ing mexico is the best at something now) which is one of the reasons I think the smash scene is so **** atm.



also: spacing uair second hit only is not even hard loool (esp on uthrows), people should use it WAYYYY more (falling uair too for killing spacies etc)

So true, what's weird about this for me is I just starting doing it naturally when the people I played (Mafia, Andy, Zoso, Darc) all started SDI'ing my upairs, then I'm even sure when, I almost exclusively only hit with the 2nd hit of the upair.

oh and for comboing sheik I've started doing weird uairs that work GREAT for me. Basically throw them at low %, FH over them start ur uair just before you start losing height. This causes the first hit will catch them if they jump and if they just fall to the ground (doing nair usually) your second hit will catch them in their landing lag

This isn't foolproof, but its a great set up to try the first time you're throwing a sheik and it covers the 2 most common options almost flawlessly. Oh, and since you'll get them when they have lose jump and still get hit by the uair if they decide to jump, its really easy to ZTD them ;D

I'll definitely try this, my main tip against Sheik is she has serious issues at low percentages vs just running up and cc'ing her tilts. I find too many players seem to get caught at low percentages trying to get around the tilts when you can literally just run right up to them. (obv. counter being they can adapt and start grabbing you, which opens the game up to allowing you to shffl into them more).

another final tip- start using reverse jabs in shield pressure more o_o (and utilting facing towards them). It raaaaaaapes for shield poking (remember, a hit will shield poke if it hits their hurtbox but not their shield). Shield poking is in general really underused, I know armada has some seeeeecret secret tricksies that he won't let me share, but yeah, experiment with it more guys ;o

I think crossups with reverse jabs are heavily underused, since it allows you use CC IASA frames on jab to bait aerials oos. Do you mean this style of reverse jabs or reverse jabs where you hit them by jabbing away from them but being close enough to them that the hitbox will hit.

 

[Lovage]

thunders arent guaranteed because the opponent can tech out or after the jab they roll away but at low percents its a kool option. waveshines are guaranteed on some opponents and its not so much the speed of your waveshine even though speed helps but the length of your wavedash

i'd argue that thunders are guaranteed vs. fox (esp. at lower percents) but NOT falco

i've had zhu pop out of my thunders on flat ground at 4-8% countless times it's hella gay LOL

 

[PK Webb]

1 more reason why falco is 55/45 lol lovage wish u lived ova here need to play u more

 

[leffen]

lols at people who think fox loses to falco ^_^

if you only knew.

im breaking out my secret falco fighting shizzle in the near future, stay tuned

 

[PK Webb]

well its just fact that falcos punish game is easier not saying better but easier to do off of shine

 

[Max?]

imo 55/45 Fox advantage at Top Level

And I'm not just saying that cause of Javi vs. PP, I've stood by that for awhile now

 

[Beat!]

^Yeah, I agree with that.

 

[Metal Reeper]

Heeey guys I need some critique.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYwcjtDtHcc&list=UUbKz0KE3_mRcSEW0ScI6_Dw&index=1&feature=plcp
Just the first match. I'd like some good in depth sheik/fox advice. I have a pretty good Idea what to do vs Sheik. I just need to quit being a lazy ***** and get my waveshines down.
I'd LOVE some critique from Chillin, since I've been told I kinda play like him.

 

[ShroudedOne]

I was playing this MU yesterday, as Fox, and I was playing really well, and was able to see that there isn't an angle that Fox can come in which Falco can protect. It's just about timing. I think the MU is even-ish. Sometimes, I feel that the fact that Falco gets knocked down from Fox's shine makes this MU favor Fox.

 

[Metal Reeper]

It's pretty momentum based.

 

[PK Webb]

I cant agree wit that max but we all have our opinions

 

[chillindude829]

Heeey guys I need some critique.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYwcjtDtHcc&list=UUbKz0KE3_mRcSEW0ScI6_Dw&index=1&feature=plcp
Just the first match. I'd like some good in depth sheik/fox advice. I have a pretty good Idea what to do vs Sheik. I just need to quit being a lazy ***** and get my waveshines down.
I'd LOVE some critique from Chillin, since I've been told I kinda play like him.

be more fluid with your movement, generally speaking you are but there are times when you get tripped up and then it takes u a while to get going again. for example sheik gets u on the ground and u recover, but before u run away or something sheik follows up; u need to be moving around at all times when u have the ability to do so

i would implement shine turnaround way more, its really helpful

also no one does this for some reason but u have a long time to edgehop bair sheik before she does her up+B when ur edgehogging her. 90% of sheiks dont see this coming (since most ppl dont do it) and will just be sitting ducks right by the edge, and since theyve already used their 2nd jump this is basically a guaranteed kill

holy **** at 3:47 LOL that was sick

in general u need to work on landing any possibly unsafe aerials w/ shine, i know you do it a lot but it seemed like u'd occasionally jab or just run around after landing an aerial on someones shield, and vs better players that will get u killed. also i know waveshine is effective vs sheik, but if ur just shield pressuring u wanna avoid WDing out of shine since it's easily punished, instead u should short hop out of the shine into another aerial or do some other mixup. the exception to this is if ur pretty sure ur gonna shieldpoke or something and want to follow up the shine w/ a grab or up smash

 

[LittleBoyLarry]

Just a quick question for you Fox experts, although I already posted this on the Marth boards, I heard if you're getting chain-grabbed, you can escape if you DI slightly behind Marth if you shine. Myth? Truth?

 

[chillindude829]

^ maybe at like 40%+ but thats the time when marth usually starts hitting u anyway

at lower %s u can DI slightly behind to where marth cant grab u unless he pivot grabs (if he doesnt move at all ull land behind him and if he turns around ull still land behind him so he has to pivot)

 

[PK Webb]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43KqPM7nlMY

even though i won this set i felt as if it could had been cleaner can any1 help me out

 

[leffen]

hey, why don't top foxes have powershielding lasers down to 100%? I rarely ever see people do it... >_>

Is it just laziness, or do you guys not realize how easy (and effective) it is? If someone has problems getting it down to 100% I could give some tips lol

 

[ShroudedOne]

I usually use platforms to get around them, but sometimes I powershield out of a dash. Getting slowly better at doing that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQFOcSP6kyw&feature=related

If anyone could critique? Don't watch the last match, cause I go Peach in that one. I know that I need more fluidity, and more tech skill, but more specific things to know would be nice. Things that I do well and things that I need to do, and things I should never do again, etc.

 

[FoxLisk]

I usually use platforms to get around them, but sometimes I powershield out of a dash. Getting slowly better at doing that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQFOcSP6kyw&feature=related

If anyone could critique? Don't watch the last match, cause I go Peach in that one. I know that I need more fluidity, and more tech skill, but more specific things to know would be nice. Things that I do well and things that I need to do, and things I should never do again, etc.

you appear to approach totally at random. also you are practicing the wrong tech skill if you can waveland comfortably and miss at least one L cancel every match.

 

[ShroudedOne]

I don't think I missed that many L-cancels... My approaches are mindfully whimsical.

 

[omgwtfToph]

hey, why don't top foxes have powershielding lasers down to 100%? I rarely ever see people do it... >_>

Is it just laziness, or do you guys not realize how easy (and effective) it is? If someone has problems getting it down to 100% I could give some tips lol

Tips plz; sometimes I'm really good at it and sometimes I can't do it much.

 

[Strong Badam]

EDIT: double post cuz internet succkks

 

[Strong Badam]

why is it so hard to be consistent with fox? holly ****. used him in doubles at a tourney yesterday
played awful in WF, got 3-0'd
played amazing set 1 of GFs, 3-0'd them
played well games 1-3 set 2, played awful game 4, lost.

idk i have to wait to see the vids, maybe it was my partner, but i felt like i played really badly that last game

also nair shines are the ONLY (practical) thing in this game that make my hands hurt, holy crap. reverse SHDL is easy as hell compared to them.

 

[crush]

try double shine -> u smash, it hurts my hands even when i use analog stick to jump

 

[JPOBS]

powershielding is dandy for fighting falco. But, failing that, more falcos should eat the laser on purpose, and then act immediately.

 

[Thanos828]

Doing double shinegrab OoS is what starts to wear my fingers after I do it too often. Using the control stick to JC only makes the situation worse, lol.

 

[Divinokage]

why is it so hard to be consistent with fox? holly ****. used him in doubles at a tourney yesterday
played awful in WF, got 3-0'd
played amazing set 1 of GFs, 3-0'd them
played well games 1-3 set 2, played awful game 4, lost.

idk i have to wait to see the vids, maybe it was my partner, but i felt like i played really badly that last game

also nair shines are the ONLY (practical) thing in this game that make my hands hurt, holy crap. reverse SHDL is easy as hell compared to them.

Probably because you used Bair a lot more in GF. =P