Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-

[Fortress | Sveet]

you just gotta use them smarter. Lasers are the ****.

 

[FoxLisk]

Lasers are pretty bad vs. Falcon also

both those characters (fox and falcon) are just as fast as you and their expected reward off a solid hit is like ~50%

i like lasering falcon on big stages.

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

i like reminding falcon that i don't have to approach

 

[Winston]

you just gotta use them smarter. Lasers are the ****.

mind elaborating instead of just stating?

i like lasering falcon on big stages.

i like reminding falcon that i don't have to approach

I think that's dependent on their style. Maybe they really, really hate approaching, or they aren't good at it.

But in general, I don't think the cost is worth it on big stages.

1). how far away do you have to be to be safe enough to laser vs. Falcon?

2). Do you prefer it when you have room to dashdance and he doesn't, or vice versa?

Basically I feel that if you are far enough away, you just gave up your advantage in neutral, and you should just run closer to them instead. If you don't, they can simply run closer to you and close that space while taking 1-2 laser hits. To clarify, I don't mean that they'll necessarily fly at you with an aerial every time; they can just run a bit closer and initiate the dashdance game.

If you mean you sneak some lasers in at random unpredictable times during the dd game, then I feel that that damage bonus is so incredibly marginal vs. the huge punishment swings that happen in this matchup that it's not worth it, unless it unsettles them psychologically. That's a player thing though, not a matchup thing.

 

[Palpi]

It is just..laser when you know you don't get punished. You are saying lasers are bad, because falcon can punish if you do them poorly...just do them when applicable.

 

[Winston]

Well, explain when it's applicable... it's not just "when you know you won't get punished", but also "when it's better than the alternative", the alternative being run closer to them.

I guess my point isn't "falcon can punish lasers if you do them poorly", it's "lasers aren't very beneficial unless falcon handles them poorly".

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

I would say doing more than one laser in a row against fox/falcon is asking to get kneed/usmashed but throwing them in when neither player wants to approach is just fine

 

[KirbyKaze]

I mean, I guess that's nice. But I don't think it really does all that much lol.

It just means they have to dash dance camp (or whatever form of movement they're using) in a range where the laser is punishable. It doesn't really force them to do anything else.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

but at that range dash dancing isnt exactly safe since fox can attack within reaction time.

 

[Winston]

he can? so you're saying that fox should never ever get hit by falcon? >__>

 

[KirbyKaze]

I don't understand that. Can you clarify it for me?

Anyway, I'm talking about Fox dittos mainly. I don't play Fox vs Falcon much but from the little I have, I think running defense primarily in that MU is kind of dumb.



.

 

[Strong Badam]

I hate lasering with Fox outside of floatier match-ups. Faster chars like Fox/Falcon/Falco/Sheik can close a spacing gap really quickly (or in the case of Falco, his lasers actually do something other than damage) and I'd rather Dash Dance than pewpew. Against like Peach/Puff or while the other chars are recovering and I'm already at the ledge, yeah I'll laser to tack on some damage. Slower chars can't close the gap as quickly so dash dancing from such a range isn't as effective as against the faster characters.

using lasers can be effective in almost every match-up though, no doubt. I just don't like to/suck at it lol.

 

[Dr Peepee]

I laser in Fox dittos but I don't think I laser in any other Fox matchups and even then only sparingly.

Lasers always make them change what they're doing. Disruption is a good thing to me because it forces them to quit focusing on me and readjust their game plan, even if only for a moment. Sometimes that's the edge you need for that hit.

 

[FoxLisk]

okay but what about the situation where yuo've just realized that the cfal you're playing is better at defense than offense? maybe he's better at DD camping your approaches than he is at putting pressure on you. ****ing laser him.

 

[Divinokage]

Guns are overpowered even in real life. I could knock someone out but if i get shot, I'm dead no matter how honorable I try to make the battle be loll.

 

[unknown522]

lol, lasers in fox dittos.

Even one laser can give away good positioning.

I love it when foxes laser when I'm a character that is at least as fast as sheik

oh, with the exception of falco of course

 

[Mr.Jackpot]

Dang it, I missed page 1337

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

get on 40ppp already

 

[Strong Badam]

we're on page 502 bad gateway where u at

 

[Sinji]

lol. lasers in fox dittos has their good and bad points.

The good point is that it forces your opponent to approach so you can punish them for it.

The bad point is that it serves an opening for the opponent to punish you in tight stages like Battle Field or Yoshi's Story.

 

[sanchaz]

we're on page 502 bad gateway where u at

why does that happen, and shouldn't you be in the donkey boards if you main dk

 

[Smooth Criminal]

why does that happen, and shouldn't you be in the donkey boards if you main dk

I dunno.

Shouldn't you be playing Pikachu 'cause your avatar is one?

Smooth Criminal

 

[KirbyKaze]

lol, lasers in fox dittos.

Even one laser can give away good positioning.

YEAH YOU MOTHER****ERS
10chars

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Canada has stupid game theories

 

[KirbyKaze]

Sveet just overhypes a move that does extremely little.

Probably because he's horrible at this game.

S'okay, though.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

EXTREMELY LITTLE? Were not talking about you're ex's **** here, this is fox's laser were talking about. To even suggest fox's anything is little much less EXTREMELY little is blasphemous.



Seriously though, i pretty much agree with what PP said. Forcing them to change their actions or even their thought process for any amount of time is a great neutral spacing move.

 

[~Tac~]

why does that happen, and shouldn't you be in the donkey boards if you main dk

502 Bad Gateway is server-side issue. Also, dem MBRs do wut dey want.

Lawl Sveet. And I too, concur. Even a second of mind-changing can take a whole match from ohshi- to Tang4stockcomeback.

 

[leffen]

Really stupid sleep deprived friendlies (please dont critique and dont look at my yoshi play)=this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUJ_MBvbukk&feature=player_detailpage#t=575s

 

[Sinji]

Really stupid sleep deprived friendlies (please dont critique and dont look at my yoshi play)=this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUJ_MBvbukk&feature=player_detailpage#t=575s

Yes! Finally a fox player that upb oos. Good stuff leffen. I liked your platform camping on game 1.
Keep it up.

 

[Divinokage]

Really stupid sleep deprived friendlies (please dont critique and dont look at my yoshi play)=this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUJ_MBvbukk&feature=player_detailpage#t=575s

LOL, extreme DI on PAL upsmash wow..

 

[Sinji]

I've been meaning to ask this for a while now. How do you fight Dr.Mario? I have no experience in the match up nor knowledge. Can someone help me out?

 

[~Tac~]

Really stupid sleep deprived friendlies (please dont critique and dont look at my yoshi play)=this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUJ_MBvbukk&feature=player_detailpage#t=575s

I don't know what it is, but I play really well when I'm lacking sleep. :\
Also, extreme DI to the max. o_o;

I've been meaning to ask this for a while now. How do you fight Dr.Mario? I have no experience in the match up nor knowledge. Can someone help me out?

I kind of want to know more on this as well. I was playing Boss yesterday with both Spacies and it was intense. All I could pick up on my mistakes were me not sweetspotting recoveries, and getting baited by pills too often.

 

[Palpi]

You need to play safe against doc, because for the most part, he can punish you harder and edgeuard you easier than you can to him. This being said, you have an easier time getting the first hit since doc has trouble approaching. I would try to elaborate, but I am not very good at it myself.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

I think doc has to play a lot safer than fox does...

 

[Palpi]

I never said he didn't. Maybe I am naive, but I just think he can edgeguard and punish harder (or easier..?) than Fox does. It is also probably easier to make mistakes as doc, against fox, than it is the other way around, but that doesn't take away how safe fox can/has to, play.

 

[EWC]

Doc can combo you really well and probably get kills of one grab sometimes. Also gimps are amazing. Basically just assume that anytime he touches you is a stock, kinda like a marth.

But fox has a so much but doc can't really approach very well and doesn't have much to corner you. He's pretty much gotta rely on your screwups like every other bad character. Just be careful don't try to rush him near the ledge and dont' get greedy.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

idk fox's nair is longer than doc grab. who even needs a shine?

 

[KirbyKaze]

It doesn't really matter what you do vs Doc as long as you don't mess up (unless they're really good, like Shroomed or something).

But, if you want to be gay...

Up tilt him out of aerial approaches; bair him out of everything; drillshine to d-tilt, up smash, dash attack, or grab; beat all of his aerials when he's coming down from up throw with up tilt (except dair; shine oos or something on that).

Camp him so you're never near the edge during engagements. He doesn't really have a good dash dance or anything. Just a surprisingly aggravating crouch cancel, some big throw combos, and some really dangerous gimps. Play to avoid those.

If he lands onstage with Up+B lag at low percent, don't be stupid and try to do a hero gimp. Just up air combo him for like 40%+ and stalk his landing with something (maybe dash attack) and then work from there. Keep it simple. Don't be fancy. Doc sucks.

 

[unknown522]

woah woah woah.

Doc combos?

maybe in West Coast

 

[KirbyKaze]

He has a lot of really annoying chain grabs. And guaranteed throw > d-smash / fair at KO percents.

I dunno. I guess that's not really "big" but it's still really annoying.