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Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-
- Thread starter Silent Wolf
- Start date
G
genkaku
Guest
When mango edgeguards he does this odd stickywalk-turnaround thing that I've never seen before. What exactly is he doing?
Vex Kasrani
Smash Master
Don't lie to us!
voorhese
Smash Master
a moonwalk to the edge? with spacies you have to walk first, so i can see where you would get "sticky walk" from
JPOBS
Smash Hero
If you can grab your opponent, upthrow them (with no di), shine waveland, regrab and upthrow again, and they STILL aren't DI'ing in some way, then they probably suck hard at this game. Its not so much that they would be expecting a regrab, but anyone worth their salt should be anti-combo DI'ing after a few (if not 1) hits because well, they don't wanna get ****ed up. At the very least they should be survival DI'ing out of fear of something worst, which in this case would work in your favour cuz they would di back towards the centre of the platform which is begging for destruction.
being above ganon for any meaningful perod of time is a terrible idea.
being fancy mostly.
but he does use it a ton to stickywalk->DJ offstage to make them think he's gona cover the high recovery option so they fastfall and try to recover low, but he just DJ's back on stage and ***** their low attempt anyway
if you mean how he's doing it, idk how to moonwalk/stickywalk lol
FoxLisk
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Jun 18, 2007
- Messages
- 1,851
if you grab fox/falco at about 80% and they don't DI cant you just kill them with a charged usmash?
i mean. just sayin.
moonwalking is pointless but cute. you do it with fox by walking forwards as fast as you can, then you jam your stick the opposite direction and do a half-circle down REALLY FAST. that's what mango's doing.
i mean. just sayin.
moonwalking is pointless but cute. you do it with fox by walking forwards as fast as you can, then you jam your stick the opposite direction and do a half-circle down REALLY FAST. that's what mango's doing.
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2008
- Messages
- 26,564
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0jAL0i4xXk
I usually only moonwalk after a wavedash tbh. Walking makes it far too telegraphed. Waveland from the ledge -> moonwalk nair is amazing tho.
I usually only moonwalk after a wavedash tbh. Walking makes it far too telegraphed. Waveland from the ledge -> moonwalk nair is amazing tho.
G
genkaku
Guest
oh, I didn't know you had to walk first. That would explain it.
Divinokage
Smash Legend
It's basically a combination of perfect spacing with reaction time. It's impossible to be taught, it comes with experience. Like if you see a Fox SH nair coming, you can backjump fair or if you face away, jump on top of fox and dair. And also it's not good to fight Fox point blank either.
I played Bam in 2 MMs yesterday one vs Falco and one vs Fox. I hated the Fox one more because I was leading and then I failed to keep the center and I get double shined into shine edgeguard and die at like 45% about, so gay lol. I lost both but the score was 3-2, 3-2. All the 10 games were last hit to win. So many clutch wins, I love melee.. it was super intense. I def wish it was recorded.
Tomacawk
Smash Master
yo so I'm finding some more new fox stuff, usefulness not quality guaranteed
on fastfallers you can uthrow fair and use your momentum to get the second hit and pull them with you, kind of like a slow dair. It leads to grab or shine. It's kinda difficult to hit until you see the spacing where it works, it's pretty tight.
Not really that useful but interesting and possibly applicable to certain situations.
I've got a question. When you approach with drill and you hit (either shield or hitstun) but land out of shine range, what are the best options? I've been using ftilt angled up to catch jumps/tap shields. What else is good?
on fastfallers you can uthrow fair and use your momentum to get the second hit and pull them with you, kind of like a slow dair. It leads to grab or shine. It's kinda difficult to hit until you see the spacing where it works, it's pretty tight.
Not really that useful but interesting and possibly applicable to certain situations.
I've got a question. When you approach with drill and you hit (either shield or hitstun) but land out of shine range, what are the best options? I've been using ftilt angled up to catch jumps/tap shields. What else is good?
JPOBS
Smash Hero
grab and turn around uptilt. Or another aerial
Sinji
Smash Master
moonwalk deals with perfect spacing and mindgames.
Druggedfox
Smash Champion
Weather nice out? Set up melee outside 
RaynEX
Colonel RTSD
When you're at the edge of a platform and your opponent d.i.s uthrow away, you don't have enough room to run and jump. You'll fall short and miss your aerial.
co-signed
Tomacawk
Smash Master
I'm talking about a dair spaced so far the utilt won't reach them. I thought about grab but I'd only try it on hardcore shield campers
JPOBS
Smash Hero
turnaround uptilt should still reach if your quick
and iirc dair->grab psuedo combos on most chars by virtue of them not having a fast enough way out. except i think spacies can shine first.
and iirc dair->grab psuedo combos on most chars by virtue of them not having a fast enough way out. except i think spacies can shine first.
RaynEX
Colonel RTSD
It true combos on every character if done correctly. Characters with 1 frame moves have the ability to punish you if you mess up, that's all. Once a spaced dair connects grab is probably the best option. You will grab anything they do that's not an invincible defensive buffer or frame 1 attack. Contrary to popular belief, dair -> jab isn't all that bad here. Most players won't be holding down in this situation.
This whole thing is so similar to opponent's d.i.ing Fox's dair. The one difference being that the last hit usually misses. This makes it so that they come out of hitstun sooner and can sometimes grab before you can. Kinda gay, I know.
If dair comboed into dtilt, we'd have have good damage / combo potential at any dair range. sigh
This whole thing is so similar to opponent's d.i.ing Fox's dair. The one difference being that the last hit usually misses. This makes it so that they come out of hitstun sooner and can sometimes grab before you can. Kinda gay, I know.
If dair comboed into dtilt, we'd have have good damage / combo potential at any dair range. sigh
Sinji
Smash Master
LOL I haven't played melee outside in a long time.Weather nice out? Set up melee outside
Divinokage
Smash Legend
*sigh*?? Fox is bull**** with his shine already, he doesn't need more options! lol.
I wish Ganon had a float *sigh* I mean he does fly in Ocarina of time right?
Summonedfist
Smash Lord
best thing to do here is spam empty short hops and mindgame them and let their shield deteriorate on its own
but flying =/= float =(
AshuRawRun
Smash Apprentice
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTcgtLRGAmk&feature=feedu
What should I do/shouldn't I do please? (I know my fox is pretty bad)
What should I do/shouldn't I do please? (I know my fox is pretty bad)
Druggedfox
Smash Champion
Kage, if you want ganon with a float just play peach =P
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Dair does combo into D-tilt.
But it's not totally reliable.
But it's not totally reliable.
unknown522
Some guy
^ this is correct
Your tech skill seemed alright in general (not referring to multishines). Basically, you could afford to fool around less. This falcon played pretty spot-on with his tech chasing and combos so. Just focus on what you were doing when he was able to grab/hit you. I'll maybe go more in depth later. Can you explain the beginning of the match?
4:29 = major edge guard choking.
So, basically, try to fsmash a little less and up tilt a little more, polish your mobility a little more (you get stuck in shines a few times), work on your tech chasing. Your fox looks pretty standard - whether this is a good or bad thing is up to you XD.
trahhSTEEZY
Smash Champion
it seems like whenever i'm chasing down my opponent through techchases and such, that if they have enough time to react out of it, they'll always spotdodge when they see me run in, knowing i'm not gonna aerial since i'm running directly to them. so instead, i try and dashdance to bait the spotdoge
should i bait and expect them to dodge and go in right after the first bait without seeing what they do ? or should i be using my bait to catch their mistake and punish afterwards? i feel that they can spotdodge and get away if i try and wait to see their reaction.
should i bait and expect them to dodge and go in right after the first bait without seeing what they do ? or should i be using my bait to catch their mistake and punish afterwards? i feel that they can spotdodge and get away if i try and wait to see their reaction.
you should do whatever is appropriate in that instant. If you have some preconceived notion about how things are going to go you will always lose out when they work out differently. Nair's continuous hit box is really useful vs. spot dodge and shield.
theory vs. action.
It REALLY depends on whether they tech into their shield. If they are blocking try to force a roll/dodge/shield grab with dash dance pressure. Otherwise, get a good read on how quickly your opponent will jump out of shield and try to nair as their shield drops.
If they don't tech into their shield then you have to watch for way too many actions to make a dodge assumption.
theory vs. action.
It REALLY depends on whether they tech into their shield. If they are blocking try to force a roll/dodge/shield grab with dash dance pressure. Otherwise, get a good read on how quickly your opponent will jump out of shield and try to nair as their shield drops.
If they don't tech into their shield then you have to watch for way too many actions to make a dodge assumption.
AshuRawRun
Smash Apprentice
Thanks for the advices, I'll work on it and I'd like a more in depth analyze if you got enough time, for the firsts seconds of the match we were talking so we weren't attacking lol
Ocean
Smash Master
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2007
- Messages
- 3,810
- Slippi.gg
- OCEAN#0
couldn't they just smash-di out of it?
Down AIR is such a bad move.
OMG. SMASH DI MAKES DOWN AIR WORSE THAN MARIO'S DOWN TILT.
Also, I feel like this hasn't been addressed in nearly 10 years so: C-stick is for noobs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3yEYLvTtQo
OMG. SMASH DI MAKES DOWN AIR WORSE THAN MARIO'S DOWN TILT.
Also, I feel like this hasn't been addressed in nearly 10 years so: C-stick is for noobs.
You should post your own analysis of the matches and I can better assist you from there.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3yEYLvTtQo
Sinji
Smash Master
I usually dtilt when falcon goes for the edge then I bair.
Palpi
Smash Hero
If you are double jumping and falling with a dair or doing it from the ledge, it is mad easy to sdi, but a quick SHFF dair, or a late one, is much harder to SDI. People act like top players never get dair->shined =/
But in all seriousness...
If falco SDI's up he can avoid the thunders combo....right? If so, what do I do. My friend does it and I usually just double jab to **** up his timing, but I can't really continue the combo.
But in all seriousness...
If falco SDI's up he can avoid the thunders combo....right? If so, what do I do. My friend does it and I usually just double jab to **** up his timing, but I can't really continue the combo.
Sinji
Smash Master
The falco i was facing SDI up about 90% of the time last night. So i just mixed it up with uthrow>usmash.
FoxLisk
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Jun 18, 2007
- Messages
- 1,851
trahh:
this is a bad question. it's a bad question because you're basically saying, "i have a read on one (or more) of my opponents but i don't utilize it. should i assume all players play this way and make this a standard part of my repertoire?"
what you should do is:
against the opponents you have noticed do this, just run in and charge an usmash or DD bait or whatever since you know that's what they do in that situation.
against other opponents do something safer and figure out what they do and then youll have a read to use on them. just DD and dont assume they'll spot dodge; then, if they do, next time go for whatever after one DD, and if they do somethign else punish that instead.
Palpi
Smash Hero
Sinji, I don't you understood my question. I would waveshine the falco, and jab him for the thunders combo, but he SDI's the jab so it doesn't reset him. What do I do?
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Yes, which is why it's not totally reliable...
Winston
Smash Master
If it's at higher percents, you can dtilt or dash attack out of your wavedash, or even ftilt if its kinda close to the edge
If it's at lower percents, well... depends how you got the shine. If it was a dair -> shine, you could substitute dair -> grab instead. Ditto with nair, though it's somewhat riskier because they could CC it. If it was a running shine you can shine usmash.