Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-

[RaynEX]

OH NO I ONLY GET TO PLAY WITH KK AND UNKNOWN

I don't get to play with anyone

:[

now that's sad, really

You're right, that is a bad situation. I feel for you, but you also have to understand:

even two years ago no one knew about Canadian smashers. The potential we had was untapped until a few of us breached the top 20 in big tournaments a few times. Kage and myself hit top 5 spots more than once (RoM, Event 52, Mass Madness, etc)

Canada had virtually no representation at big events besides Blunted Object, and no real accomplishments to speak of. We've travelled a lot since then for experience and to help our scene improve. Coming back and sharing all our great stories, hoping that it will entice a few to get out there. The fruits of our labour: lazy scene that hasn't had a decently sized tournament in half a year.

It's hard when you've felt success and you had that intense drive to improve, but then it all slowed down because the people around you (for the most part) didn't share that interest.

Raynex, you still play bemani?

Yeah. I kind of run the GF scene in Toronto. There aren't any heavy bemani heads to run sessions with so I just hit up the arcades every now and then.

 

[omgwtfToph]

****, I'd session with you lol. Since I got here I've beaten every non-99 in Drummania :D come to japan!

And that's ****ty about the scene up there.



Edit: you know, since you're talking about both bemani and stagnating smash, let me share with you my experiences as a bemani player.

I'm probably like, one of the top 10 beatmania IIDX players in the USA, and not because I'm actually any good (compared to Japan) - that game's dead in America, it had a reasonably sized but very devoted following for a long time but it pretty much died out. When I moved to Washington after high school I was literally one of 2 players in the entire state, but I kept going. Even though my only "community" for that game was online. Because I loved playing the game itself, I didn't really give a **** if nobody else was interested.

I also started playing Melee at arguably its lowest point, in early 2008 after Brawl came out. Nobody gave a **** about melee, all the good washington players were either moving on to Brawl or quitting and it was pretty much just me saying "Brawl looks like it sucks ****, I'm gonna play melee cuz it looks really fun even though people might stop playing it."

I guess what I'm saying is, at some point you have to decide, do I actually want to play this game or don't I? Regardless of what other people around you think. like, are you living for yourself, or are you just feeding off the positive energy that other people give you? It's one thing if you have NO good players around you, then you can't get any good games in. But if you have even just unknown522 or KK then you obviously can enjoy the game ITSELF at a high level, so it just comes down to, do you actually want to play the game, or are you just in it for everybody else?

I'm probably going to keep playing melee until they stop running big tournaments. By then I figure I'll be wealthy enough to throw a national tournament myself, and then if nobody shows up to that, then I'll quit. :/

 

[JPOBS]

The fruits of our labour: lazy scene that hasn't had a decently sized tournament in half a year.

to be fair bernard, we DO have tournies, but nobody is interested in travelling outside of their very inner city for them.

like, both waterloo and london had tournies this weekend (sat+sun) but no one from the GTA went to either besides camillo/ministry.

it wouldnt be hard to have decent 32+ man tournies if people traveled out of thier home city to play more.

so..yea :/

 

[Lovage]

@ raynex



come to rom da??

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

after doing an aerial on a shield, is shine always the right next thing to do?

seems like by habit i've always landed all my aerials into shines, but now i'm starting to feel like i could just do aerials into more aerials.

is it about the mixups? or is there a proper for this?

i've kinda been seeing it like..if i land in too close, not spaced well enough, i shine. but if i have enough room or if i land behind the shield i like to keep going with aerials.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

if you do a late nair you can just run away after the lcancel, or dash behind them.

 

[unknown522]

to be fair bernard, we DO have tournies, but nobody is interested in travelling outside of their very inner city for them.

like, both waterloo and london had tournies this weekend (sat+sun) but no one from the GTA went to either besides camillo/ministry.

it wouldnt be hard to have decent 32+ man tournies if people traveled out of thier home city to play more.

so..yea :/

On the weekend that Quebec came, yeah. I actually tried to find a ride out there.

Also, the bus costs $50+ with the entry fee being $5. No one here has a car, where as at least 1 person out of town does.

 

[Lovage]

after doing an aerial on a shield, is shine always the right next thing to do?

NOPE



shining after every aerial is prolly the #1 worst habit for most fox players
so much stuff you can do instead of shining (the biggest thing being crossup bair)

but i guess it's just something you learn with experience

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

well if i land infront of them, and im expecting to get grabbed, should i shine then?


also, when is it the right time to DAIR or NAIR with fox? Like, not during a combo, but initially going in on the opponent.

 

[Tomacawk]

well if i land infront of them, and im expecting to get grabbed, should i shine then?


also, when is it the right time to DAIR or NAIR with fox? Like, not during a combo, but initially going in on the opponent.

you should shine or spot dodge in that situation
moreover, you probably don't want to be landing in front of their shield at all unless it's zelda or yoshi or gnw...


when to dair and nair is partly preference, but I think there is a large element of experience as well
when I approach with an aerial, I'll dair until they get to mid or high %s. nair is better after you get the first hit, when you're trying to beat their aerials (bair is often even better than nair)
nair is almost always the better combo choice. if your opponent shows an average or worse ability to sdi out of dairs, spam the hell out of them. they **** if you place them well and they're never sdi'd
um...mid-high % nairs give you running usmashes but high % dairs give you waveshine upsmash, so pick your preference and know which one is more reliable due to your opponents character/skill/style

playplayplay

what does everybody think of fair combos into running usmashes, especially jiggs at high percents when everything else quits working?

 

[Falcinho]

(the biggest thing being crossup bair)

that feels so baller

edit: new page >_>

The post was about shieldpressuring without shine as a mixup

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

not a new page if you gotz 40ppp!

 

[omgwtfToph]

shield pressuring without shine as a mixup just means not landing where you can get shieldgrabbed haha. there's all KINDS of stuff you can do!

i do some good stuff at 1:41 NOT TO TOOT MY OWN HORN

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmvbCMyvUCI#t=1m41s

edit: **** this video is probably the best ive ever played haha. outside of a few small techskill mistakes, but those are gonna happen *shrug*


and yeah, fair into usmash on floaties is like, kind of DI dependent because fair sends the opponent at a higher angle than nair usually, so i'm not quite so sure how guaranteed it is on jigglypuff etc...

 

[JPOBS]

and yeah, fair into usmash on floaties is like, kind of DI dependent because fair sends the opponent at a higher angle than nair usually, so i'm not quite so sure how guaranteed it is on jigglypuff etc...

it'll probably work if they are dI down+away to not get combo'd

but then again if they survival DI it Up, you can prolly just fair then upair.

 

[Brookman]

NOPE

shining after every aerial is prolly the #1 worst habit for most fox players
so much stuff you can do instead of shining (the biggest thing being crossup bair)

but i guess it's just something you learn with experience

@ toph: I assume you are green fox. There were two instances when the forward b is lower than your back air hit box and the opposing hit box goes beyond you. try using the nair here, backwards or not, it should connect.

 

[FoxLisk]

nair to another nair is a good mixup on cfals that like stomping out of shield.

 

[Brookman]

I just nair up smash.


or nair charge up smash


just react to his jump/grab frames and you'll eat him every time.

 

[Kanelol]

wait, you mean shining every time i land isn't a good idea

 

[Brookman]

shine is good when you need to be invincible.

I think what people need to get back to is shining vs. shield grab, not vs. the shield it self.


$0.02

 

[Tomacawk]

wait, you mean shining every time i land isn't a good idea

it took me an entire tournament of getting grabbed constantly by the great mw players to realize shining after landing was the reason it was happening
people are so good they space grabs outside of shine's range
the marths are especially good at it

 

[omgwtfToph]

@ toph: I assume you are green fox. There were two instances when the forward b is lower than your back air hit box and the opposing hit box goes beyond you. try using the nair here, backwards or not, it should connect.

yah I'm green fox.

I noticed that, yeah, like after I ftilted him at the end right? I think I did the bair too early as if I was trying to edgeguard a Falco (whose forward B is faster). I'll start nairing and see how that goes.

Also, usmash against falcon's stomp oos isn't that good imo.

for example, I got into the habit of nairing and then utilt against the stomp for a while, but that would only work if they timed the stomp oos exactly as I expected them to. I really like nairing past falcon and then bairing, you get a lot more advantage if they just roll out too. Whereas if you usmash, it's pretty much a neutral situation again, since usmash's recovery is so slow.

Not to mention, if they just stay in their shield and take the usmash, youre ****ed, lol.

 

[Brookman]

I always have felt that, since you have a faster jump, there is virtually no reason to ever lose to falcon out of his shield.


Up smash his nair, all day.

 

[RaynEX]

****, I'd session with you lol. Since I got here I've beaten every non-99 in Drummania :D come to japan!

And that's ****ty about the scene up there.



Edit: you know, since you're talking about both bemani and stagnating smash, let me share with you my experiences as a bemani player.

I'm probably like, one of the top 10 beatmania IIDX players in the USA, and not because I'm actually any good (compared to Japan) - that game's dead in America, it had a reasonably sized but very devoted following for a long time but it pretty much died out. When I moved to Washington after high school I was literally one of 2 players in the entire state, but I kept going. Even though my only "community" for that game was online. Because I loved playing the game itself, I didn't really give a **** if nobody else was interested.

I also started playing Melee at arguably its lowest point, in early 2008 after Brawl came out. Nobody gave a **** about melee, all the good washington players were either moving on to Brawl or quitting and it was pretty much just me saying "Brawl looks like it sucks ****, I'm gonna play melee cuz it looks really fun even though people might stop playing it."

I guess what I'm saying is, at some point you have to decide, do I actually want to play this game or don't I? Regardless of what other people around you think. like, are you living for yourself, or are you just feeding off the positive energy that other people give you? It's one thing if you have NO good players around you, then you can't get any good games in. But if you have even just unknown522 or KK then you obviously can enjoy the game ITSELF at a high level, so it just comes down to, do you actually want to play the game, or are you just in it for everybody else?

I'm probably going to keep playing melee until they stop running big tournaments. By then I figure I'll be wealthy enough to throw a national tournament myself, and then if nobody shows up to that, then I'll quit. :/

You make a really good point. I love the game; but the community and the positive energy is 45-50% the reason why I started playing to begin with. It's continued to be the reason I keep posting and keeping up with things after all these years. I guess I have to stop putting it off and make up my mind.

Honestly though its just work/school/life that's been keeping me busy. All that time playing smash in early high school caught up with me. Next month I'll be fiending again most likely.


To me, the Japanese Bemani scene was always this faraway place I would never get to see or experience. The fact that you live in Japan and get to walk through floors upon floors of great games blows me away.

I know alot of great Beatmania players too...but you seem to one-up them pretty **** hard. I'm in the 50-60s for DM. Forget about that ****, lol thats all you. For GF I can go up to 95 and still get decent scores. Running a session would be tight as hell. If we ever meet up at a tournament in the States its game over.

to be fair bernard, we DO have tournies, but nobody is interested in travelling outside of their very inner city for them.

like, both waterloo and london had tournies this weekend (sat+sun) but no one from the GTA went to either besides camillo/ministry.

it wouldnt be hard to have decent 32+ man tournies if people traveled out of thier home city to play more.

so..yea :/

On the weekend that Quebec came, yeah. I actually tried to find a ride out there.

Also, the bus costs $50+ with the entry fee being $5. No one here has a car, where as at least 1 person out of town does.

Ryan just covered one of the points I would use. Second, don't all of you go to Waterloo? When the scene was vibrant and full of activity we usually convened at a venue that was easy for most of us to get to. Now its all just monetary woes for Scarborough.

Trust me, we've travelled out of our home city plenty.

@ raynex



come to rom da??

Can't man. No room in the cars and I haven't been practicing much. Getting my **** together before my nights are all taken by Pound training for next year.



It's hard to know when not to shine sometimes. If you nair their shield, how do you guys know they will just sit there and not grab? I guess wrong alot lol

 

[Palpi]

Shine grab! XD

 

[JPOBS]

Ryan just covered one of the points I would use. Second, don't all of you go to Waterloo? When the scene was vibrant and full of activity we usually convened at a venue that was easy for most of us to get to. Now its all just monetary woes for Scarborough.

Trust me, we've travelled out of our home city plenty.

nah we dont all go to waterloo. some go to western and some go to waterloo. neither city (between the two) supprted the others tourny anyway.

and I know you guys have travelled around in the past. And i wasnt exactly placing blame on only on GTA, i was moreso saying we all collectively dont travel to one anothers tournies unfortunately anymore, despite having quite a number of players being scattered across various cities.

 

[omgwtfToph]

You make a really good point. I love the game; but the community and the positive energy is 45-50% the reason why I started playing to begin with. It's continued to be the reason I keep posting and keeping up with things after all these years. I guess I have to stop putting it off and make up my mind.

Yea dude, that's definitely true, but think about it. There are always gonna be bigass tournaments to look forward to and a big vibrant community online to connect with, at the very least. So as long as you got something to LOOK FORWARD to in the future, then you can soldier on today.

That's the way I see it anyway. That's why I included that last bit of "I'll quit when there are no more big tournaments."

To me, the Japanese Bemani scene was always this faraway place I would never get to see or experience. The fact that you live in Japan and get to walk through floors upon floors of great games blows me away.

I know alot of great Beatmania players too...but you seem to one-up them pretty **** hard. I'm in the 50-60s for DM. Forget about that ****, lol thats all you. For GF I can go up to 95 and still get decent scores. Running a session would be tight as hell. If we ever meet up at a tournament in the States its game over.

Yeah LOL, I didn't play any melee or any fighting game in high school, just all music games haha. By now Melee is the game I'm focusing on, and music games are already just like, in my blood >.>

If I had one regret it'd be that I wish I played more fighters. But ehhh, I think the way to become a great fighting gamer is to become great at one game first, and then branch out (same way with music games). So whatever :d

and yeah dude, if we get to session, its goin down 8DDD

 

[Winston]

it took me an entire tournament of getting grabbed constantly by the great mw players to realize shining after landing was the reason it was happening
people are so good they space grabs outside of shine's range
the marths are especially good at it

To me it sounds like the problem is the spaced grabs, not the fact that you shined.

If you land with an aerial and they space their grab like that you should be getting grabbed no matter what you do, so...

 

[KirbyKaze]

Since RaynEX is bemoaning Toronto's ****ty smash scene I'll throw my two cents in here.

One, Fox is very hard to play.

Two, Toronto is a horrible smash scene for a lot of reasons. The complete and total lack of motivation is one of them. The strange limitations some of our players impose upon themselves for various personal and moral reasons is another.

It sucks.

But whatcha gonna do? It's not like we can magically make people want to play. And even when we have tournaments what good are they? Pot's excruciatingly low. But people are cheap as balls and don't want to pay like 5 bucks to enter around here.

Normally the drawback of "but then you won't get experience and people won't play with you and tournaments are fun" kicks in about that time. But then like, they counter it by not being motivated and stuff. But then some of these people later wonder why they're not getting better so it forms the cycle of perpetual awesome.

Good **** GTA.

In a twist of cruel fate the regions with people that want to get better all live several hours from us. And I.B is also far too.

 

[omgwtfToph]

You just gotta tell them they're noobs. That **** worked for me when Eggz always used to do it. LOL

Anyway, I'm fans of you 3 whenever you guys go out of province/country so I hope the fire doesn't die with you guys.

Edit: all this GFDM talk made me wanna change my avatar lol

 

[Tomacawk]

To me it sounds like the problem is the spaced grabs, not the fact that you shined.

If you land with an aerial and they space their grab like that you should be getting grabbed no matter what you do, so...

not at all. Yes it means I had a poor approach, but you can spotdodge instead of shine, and get a free shine.
you can dash backwards and catch them coming back
the time it takes you to shine and jump out of it is the difference between getting grabbed and not getting grabbed.
the reason being they space it so the shine misses them--if you don't shine and run backwards just a tiny bit, you're out of their grab range
point is if you make one mistake you should do what you can to recover, rather than make another mistake and give them even more opportunity to punish

 

[RaynEX]

nah we dont all go to waterloo. some go to western and some go to waterloo. neither city (between the two) supprted the others tourny anyway.

and I know you guys have travelled around in the past. And i wasnt exactly placing blame on only on GTA, i was moreso saying we all collectively dont travel to one anothers tournies unfortunately anymore, despite having quite a number of players being scattered across various cities.

I can agree with this.

Tristan why are you so legit? You put the other gta smashers to shame. Posting on the boards and being active and ****. It brings a tear to my eye.

Yeah LOL, I didn't play any melee or any fighting game in high school, just all music games haha. By now Melee is the game I'm focusing on, and music games are already just like, in my blood >.>

If I had one regret it'd be that I wish I played more fighters. But ehhh, I think the way to become a great fighting gamer is to become great at one game first, and then branch out (same way with music games). So whatever :d

and yeah dude, if we get to session, its goin down 8DDD

I worked at an arcade that was walking distance from my highschool during grades 10-11. So my veins are running with Desert Rose and Toccata too.

You teach me rhythm games and I'll teach you fighters. Been playing the SF series before I even knew about smash. Competitive in MvC2 / 3rd / T6 / Blazblue and SSF4.

Add me on aim so we can stop killing this thread.

You just gotta tell them they're noobs. That **** worked for me when Eggz always used to do it. LOL

Anyway, I'm fans of you 3 whenever you guys go out of province/country so I hope the fire doesn't die with you guys.

Edit: all this GFDM talk made me wanna change my avatar lol

Funky Sonic World. Good choice.

Stupidly hard song.

To me it sounds like the problem is the spaced grabs, not the fact that you shined.

If you land with an aerial and they space their grab like that you should be getting grabbed no matter what you do, so...

You'd be surprised at how much that single whiffed shine matters.

 

[OverLade]

What's the best way to input a double jump while following your opponents DI when you attempt to Uthrow Uair them? Right now I think I jump with X and double jump with the control stick to follow them as they DI but is there a better/easier way to do it (while still having independent control over fox as you do it)?

 

[ZoSo]

Bernard, let's be real. You're from North America; you are not competitive in 3S.

 

[RaynEX]

Let's be real, Toronto hosts the largest fighting game tournament series in Canada. Besides the T series and the competition it brings (Jwong/Arturo mainly), we also have Samir, arguably the best Yun in North America. 3rd still has a scene here and the arcades are still poppin'.

There's good reason / ample opportunity for me to play every weekend.

 

[ZoSo]

I was mostly making a joke about how bad Japan ***** us, but it's awesome that there's still a scene near you.

OMG I wish we had arcades around here.

 

[KevinM]

Let's be real, RI keeps it real.

edit: I think over 5000 of my posts have come from saying something nonsensical after Dave posts, an amazing feat considering he only has 2k posts.

 

[ZoSo]

AWWW TWEETED.

 

[RaynEX]

I was mostly making a joke about how bad Japan ***** us, but it's awesome that there's still a scene near you.

OMG I wish we had arcades around here.

I've been immersed in reality lately. I keep forgetting that I'm not supposed to take internet forum posts literally.

oops

Zoso add me on aim rayn1704. Anyone in the Fox boards who wants to chat it up sometime - feel free to add me as well.

 

[omgwtfToph]

That sounds like kind of a bad trade for you, since the only advice you can really give in music games is "Play more" LOL.

But yeah I'll hit you up on aim. the only wack thing is the timezone difference - you're east coast time right? The only time I can really get on aim is in the evening after work (5:30 PM - midnight-ish my time) so unless you're on aim like, in the morning/late morning then it'll be impossible lol.

Yeah third strike *****.

 

[TemPesT-]

one time i beat Jiano in 3s