Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-

[trahhSTEEZY]

LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL, amazing analogy

so smash is like where your playing smash, then all of a sudden you do something that's not even possible in smash and confuse your opponent like WTFDAWG? then you win. that's how i see movement..

 

[Kanelol]

Don't listen to me I just talk a lot and never actually say anything :[

In unrelated news, charging up-smash out of a dash is the most legit thing ever

 

[ZoSo]

I'm buying SSF4 as soon as I get my next paycheck. I'm playing Blazblue too. Planning on going to a-cho every now and then once I get better. Who do you play?

****ing CODY! In Smash, I tend to switch around a lot because I have a hard time sustaining interest in any particular character, but I've been playing Cody exclusively for like a month and I'm not bored of him at all. I also play a bit of Rose (played her when I first started) and I want to get good with Fei cause he's hype and Dudley cause he's a true gentleman.

Since you live in Japan and you're near an arcade, you should give 3S a shot too. That game has a lot of problems, but it becomes AMAZING once people get good enough to overcome the fact that Chun completely dominates every character.

At the moment, I'm kinda having a hard time articulating what I was trying to say to Zao about movement, so I hope somebody else can explain it.

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

3S sooooooo goooooooooooood it just reminds me of techskill for some reason.

3S is my melee to sf4 being brawl. i'm completely aware SF4 is legit as ****, but in my eyes, i just see 3S as the older, more technical side of sf, even if it's not true. plus i've always loved the sprites over the 3d work anyday.

 

[PB&J]

im talking about movement in the game but i see its over everybody heads..its cool though...

on another note- fox vs jiggs..lets discuss please..i want to hear some insight on the match up

 

[Lovage]

im talking about movement in the game but i see its over everybody heads..its cool though...

LOL

i actually thought your analogy was fine but now you're being a douche

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

lol what part of that analogy made sense to you? i'm not trying to offend PB&J in any way, but out of sheer curiosity, i wanna see how it made any sense to you

 

[Lovage]

dont trip its obviously over all of our heads

 

[A New England Winter]

Can anyone elaborate any farther? I find myself still uncertain...

 

[Silent Wolf]

i understood it fine. you guys must not be technical enough or somethin *shrug*

 

[Tomacawk]

PBnJ-smash philosopher...?

 

[JPOBS]

lmfao this thread is gold.

 

[omgwtfToph]

****ing CODY! In Smash, I tend to switch around a lot because I have a hard time sustaining interest in any particular character, but I've been playing Cody exclusively for like a month and I'm not bored of him at all. I also play a bit of Rose (played her when I first started) and I want to get good with Fei cause he's hype and Dudley cause he's a true gentleman.

Since you live in Japan and you're near an arcade, you should give 3S a shot too. That game has a lot of problems, but it becomes AMAZING once people get good enough to overcome the fact that Chun completely dominates every character.

At the moment, I'm kinda having a hard time articulating what I was trying to say to Zao about movement, so I hope somebody else can explain it.

I used to play 3s, yeah lol. That game is the shiet.

Uhhh but I don't think I'm gonna play it over here. Because I don't really live in Tokyo or Osaka or anything, I kind of live out in the country, and I haven't seen much 3s up around here. Well, I'm sure a scene exists, but I haven't encountered one yet.

 

[Robsta]

I couldn't find a general question and answer thread so I decided to post it here (because I main Fox).

I'm having trouble with teching and L-canceling. I come from a strong 64 background and as many of you would know the is no consequence in spamming the Z button for techs and Z-cancels, which I do regularly. :/

I was wondering if anyone had any tips or suggestions on how to break this nasty habit.
Much appreciated

 

[omgwtfToph]

one thing that helped me was to get in the habit of pressing the L button LIGHTLY for L-canceling. the input for a tech in Melee is to push the button down all the way, but you can L-cancel with a soft press, so if you L-cancel by only pushing the trigger down part way then you can tech whenever you want.

you just gotta change your habits. it takes some time

 

[voorhese]

thought there was a consequence for spamming a tech, like u cant try to tech again for a certain amount of frames, and also i would suggest L instead of Z.

 

[Tomacawk]

when you hit R/L:
if you're in hit stun/knockback (which is the right term?), next 20 frames if you can tech, you will tech
for the 40 subsequent frames, you can't tech. that makes 1 full second a "tech rotation", if you will
if you hit R/L again during those 40 cooldown frames you reset the 40 frame timer and cannot tech until the rotation refreshes/finishes

if you're not in hit stun/knockback, the next 20 frames, nothing happens. for the subsequent 20 frames, if you are in a tech situation, you'll tech (ledge techs, teching shines, etc). then a 20 frame buffer follows until the rotation resets. I'm not sure what happens if you hit R/L during the final 20 frames

 

[voorhese]

when you hit R/L:
if you're in hit stun/knockback (which is the right term?), next 20 frames if you can tech, you will tech
for the 40 subsequent frames, you can't tech. that makes 1 full second a "tech rotation", if you will
if you hit R/L again during those 40 cooldown frames you reset the 40 frame timer and cannot tech until the rotation refreshes/finishes

if you're not in hit stun/knockback, the next 20 frames, nothing happens. for the subsequent 20 frames, if you are in a tech situation, you'll tech (ledge techs, teching shines, etc). then a 20 frame buffer follows until the rotation resets. I'm not sure what happens if you hit R/L during the final 20 frames

when u hit L or R during the final 20 frames this happens http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H91rPIq2mN4 its at like 3:16

 

[FoxLisk]

im talking about movement in the game but i see its over everybody heads..its cool though...

on another note- fox vs jiggs..lets discuss please..i want to hear some insight on the match up

you're a douche. also i thought you thought you knew everything about fox vs jiggs?

dont trip its obviously over all of our heads

i understood it fine. you guys must not be technical enough or somethin *shrug*

 

[omgwtfToph]

lmao otto

anyway pbnj i watched your videos, it seems like you linked videos where you ***** the **** out of him ?_? so it's kinda hard to give advice. if i could say anything it's that you don't stay still enough, like, you don't put nearly enough importance into controlling the center stage and you just rush into the corner too often. next time you play smash, take note of every time your opponent rolled behind you and you failed to punish it because you were committed to attacking. then try to reduce those instances.

i'm only saying this because i had this problem big-time... take it or leave it haha

 

[johnburlap]

Alright this may not be completely fox specific but it really only happens with fox for me, so here I go.

Whenever i play anyone my play level shifts. When I play with my friends i never sweep people it always close (i usually win ). If I am playing against newbs i beat them easy though. When I play in semi's and upper level plays i pull off stuff that I can never do with my friends and in prelims. Any ideas as to why. It makes it hell to try to improve my game.

 

[voorhese]

you must be a HYPE RIDER!!!!

instead of choking, u live up to the moment?

 

[johnburlap]

Well that leads to a second question. How can i improve my game if its level just changes willy nilly depending on my opponent. how can i be consistantly say 8 out of 10 in terms of my play ability

 

[omgwtfToph]

take a more active role in your improvement by making mental notes to yourself when an opponent catches you off-guard, escapes your pressure etc.

 

[Lovage]

take a more active role in your improvement by making mental notes to yourself when an opponent catches you off-guard, escapes your pressure etc.

^^^^^^^^%^^^^^


prolly one of the most important things there is to getting better (FOR ME)

 

[Rubyiris]

puff is gay wat do.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEziR0NM7aI BF - win
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WglBywl-2a4 YS - loss
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYYQ4fDNwA0 PS - loss
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckfLwpbeB_M PS - loss

Note: i play these games for srs. No flashy techskill spamz.

 

[PB&J]

lmao otto

anyway pbnj i watched your videos, it seems like you linked videos where you ***** the **** out of him ?_? so it's kinda hard to give advice. if i could say anything it's that you don't stay still enough, like, you don't put nearly enough importance into controlling the center stage and you just rush into the corner too often. next time you play smash, take note of every time your opponent rolled behind you and you failed to punish it because you were committed to attacking. then try to reduce those instances.

i'm only saying this because i had this problem big-time... take it or leave it haha

cactuar said the same thing to me at apex..yea..i need to do that more

everyone else- sorry for being a jerk, i just thought it was clear and was frustrated when people didnt get it

about puff- im good against puff but i want to be amazing like no one else.you can always find new things in certain match ups imo

 

[Rubyiris]

good lasers
uthrow uair
????
win game.

im stuck at step 2. toph says claw, but **** that.

 

[FoxLisk]

ruby:

i know you're gonna respond to this by saying something defensive, dismissive, and/or flat out rude because you can't take criticism, but:

i dont know why you're complaining abuot puff in particular. almost every time she got a punish that was more than just one move it was because you had done something patently bad. blatantly misspacing aerials, lasering in place for a long time, grabbing the air, etc. you also failed to capitalize on most of her big mistakes. like when he landed right next to you and shielded and your response was to laser in place. The SDs dont help, either.

also cool it on the lasers once she hits abuot 60-65ish on the low ceiling stages. just go for uthrow uair or nair-> usmash or weak bair-> usmash kinda things.

 

[PB&J]

rubyiris- i watched the first game. I think you were lasering a bit to much..its a good thing to do but just grab her after around 60-70 and kill her..everything else was fine. i obviously knew you were messing up with those fairs and one thing i do to puff when she is on platforms, i always tech chase with bair..besides that with better spacing it seems like you would be fine against her

 

[Rubyiris]

ruby:

i know you're gonna respond to this by saying something defensive, dismissive, and/or flat out rude because you can't take criticism, but:

i dont know why you're complaining abuot puff in particular. almost every time she got a punish that was more than just one move it was because you had done something patently bad. blatantly misspacing aerials, lasering in place for a long time, grabbing the air, etc. you also failed to capitalize on most of her big mistakes. like when he landed right next to you and shielded and your response was to laser in place. The SDs dont help, either.

also cool it on the lasers once she hits abuot 60-65ish on the low ceiling stages. just go for uthrow uair or nair-> usmash or weak bair-> usmash kinda things.

I can take, and actively seek criticism. If I didn't, I wouldn't post on this board. You know nothing about me.

 

[FoxLisk]

i know that every time you've asked for advice and been given it that i've seen (several times), you've responded negatively.

 

[JPOBS]

ruby: you need to work on DI'ing the upthrow much more.
First game, his first grab: he had time to Nair, FF, L-cancel, grab, pause for a bit, THEN upthrow, and you STILL missed the DI :/
same thing happened second game except he fair'd. (and didnt rest this time for some reason)
Second game, you whiffed a grab right in front of him and also didnt JC it so u had mega lag, and once again, you somehow miss the DI despte that being what he was obviously going to do. Luckily he didnt rest you for some reason, or go for the upuair->tech trap->rest. I get the feeling he doesnt play puff regularly.

he shouldnt be getting potential rests like aerial->grab or when you blatantly whiff a move. You should be DI'ing these 100% of the time.
He doesnt even do any tricky grab setups like wavedashback oos->grab. so to see you missing DI on the most basic setups is like....meh

Upthrow Upair is bread and butter and you should get it down really well. You missed far to many due to slow reaction off the throw. Keep in mind jiggs is a lightwieght so you can move almost immediately.
at 2:15 you grabbed him near the ledge at 52% and fthrew....upthrow upait would have killed, you never gain anything throwing jiggs offstage.

when you fullhop nair and whiff, a lot of the time its better to uptilt than shine cuz it has more range and combo ability.

hope this helps.

 

[Rubyiris]

@jpobs: I'm preemtively holding left/right, yet I still don't go said directions. what do?

He mains puff and plays with v3ctorman, a player MUCH, MUCH, MUCH better than me on a regular basis.

@ 2:15 it was supposed to be a uthrow. I messed up. :\

also i dont see how i can uthrow uair any faster than what i'm doing. i'm reacting as fast as i can. maybe my reaction time just isn't good enough?

 

[PB&J]

sometimes when i do the inputs of the up air too fast it comes out slower..its like i missed some frames up the jump..dont know if that makes sense..so try waiting a split second then up throw u air..hope that works.

fact: jman use to have the same problem with up throw up air

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

I'm not sure on how many things I do this, but I'm conscious of the fact that sometimes I spam a button in order to try and get my action on the first available frame or just to time something in general. When timing is off, I usually find it easier to alter my frequency or starting time instead of timing it with 1 press.

For example, doing uthrow uair at various percents I usually do two button presses of jump from the ground and then another in the air all in the same rhythm. At higher percents or on floatier characters I slow my press frequency in order to get more height from my first jump and in cases like marth 0% no DI i increase my frequency in order to get an almost instant double jump. Against characters like falcon and ganon I will sometimes drop the first throw combo because of the extra throw lag but then auto correct for the next throws.

Its just the way I do things, not advocating it, but I think many players do the same thing whether they are conscious of it or not.


edit- relevance: in ur case PBnJ, I think your frequency might be too fast so the button press you intended the action to be effective fails but then works on the next press which makes it seem like it is slower when in fact it happened because you were too fast.

 

[JPOBS]

@jpobs: I'm preemtively holding left/right, yet I still don't go said directions. what do?

He mains puff and plays with v3ctorman, a player MUCH, MUCH, MUCH better than me on a regular basis.

@ 2:15 it was supposed to be a uthrow. I messed up. :\

also i dont see how i can uthrow uair any faster than what i'm doing. i'm reacting as fast as i can. maybe my reaction time just isn't good enough?

about the holding left and right, Im not sure how effective "holding" is in terms of achieving good DI. I personally smash the stick and get good results that way, but i can't confirm or deny the effectiveness of holding vs jiggs' upthrow.

about him maining puff, thats cool, i guess i just didnt expect him to do certain things. arizona is lolzy.

about upthrow upar: Read Sveet's post first of all about jump timing nd stuff.
But also you have to be quicker with beginning to dash/run after the throw when he dI's it so u can be in position to upair. theres nothing i can do to help you with this except to say just practice practice practice and always remember that there is almost 0 throw lag cuz she is so light you can move asap.

 

[Winston]

about the holding left and right, Im not sure how effective "holding" is in terms of achieving good DI. I personally smash the stick and get good results that way, but i can't confirm or deny the effectiveness of holding vs jiggs' upthrow.

You can't smash DI throws besides jiggs' fthrow, so you'd have to be holding it to input DI...

Ruby, have you paid attention to which way you are DIing with respect to the way jiggs is facing? I think one direction is ineffective and one lets you go really far.

Why not boot up vs mode with 2 controllers and figure out how to make it work for you?

 

[Rubyiris]

no i haven't really payed too terribly much attention to that stuff. i just know that i do my best to hold left/right whenever i know i'm going to be grabbed. i just generally preemptively attempt to DI toward the nearest platform, or furthest away from juggz, depending on stage position.

 

[Brookman]

I may be wrong, but I believe there is a sort of latency in regard to command inputs in the game. As in, you can't spam a button faster than the game reads inputs and if you do it actually creates larger gaps between registration. I could be completely wrong.