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Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-

Animal

Animal

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 20, 2009
Messages
1,142
so ****, i love dtilting, smartly obviously, against marth. Alot of them dont see it coming and his shield doesnt cover them toes.
 
joeplicate

joeplicate

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 30, 2008
Messages
4,842
Location
alameda, ca
microwave!

i'm hella sorry i didn't get to those matches yet, i watched them today though. i'll definitely get to it sometime this week haha, probably tomorrow night or something.

but yea just wanted to say sorry for telling you i'd do something then forgetting D=
<3333
 
D1

D1

Banned via Administration
Joined
Feb 6, 2005
Messages
3,811
Location
Twitter @xD1x
You guys are so amazing. Thanks much for general knowledge+tips. I'm trying to get all the Brawl outta my system cuz it messed up some of my Melee. I appreciate alot! Great to see Melee's still alive! All we need now is for Fox to win a major major. Where like all the top of the line pros are at. Thats my dream.

Lets all shoot towards that goal fellow kitsunes!

I <3 dtilt ^_____^

Btw yes Lovage run up shield ftw.
 
Roman.

Roman.

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 25, 2007
Messages
2,492
Location
Wilbraham, MA (Springfield)
D1 said:
You guys are so amazing. Thanks much for general knowledge+tips. I'm trying to get all the Brawl outta my system cuz it messed up some of my Melee. I appreciate alot! Great to see Melee's still alive! All we need now is for Fox to win a major major. Where like all the top of the line pros are at. Thats my dream.

Lets all shoot towards that goal fellow kitsunes!

I <3 dtilt ^_____^

Btw yes Lovage run up shield ftw.
Click to expand...
this post is just... great...
 
KAOSTAR

KAOSTAR

the Ascended One
Joined
May 20, 2008
Messages
8,084
Location
The Wash: Lake City
Kanelol said:
get good music for this one?


jk <3 techno
Click to expand...
I liked the other songs he used in his other two videos better and the one in lovages. "World of Illusion" went really well with the video. **** was epic, mad professional.
Silent Wolf said:
just a heads up, active artwork - fox edition is in the works! should be better than the last =D hype!
Click to expand...
im waiting for the kirby. but your fox one WILL be better, or you wont do it, just how you is *****
 
ResidentWaffle

ResidentWaffle

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 22, 2006
Messages
1,125
Location
UCLA
on the fox vs peach match-up

is it a bad idea to get behind a peach since they can nair oos? or do you have better options?

Also any general tips/links to tips for the match-up would be helpful.
 
Tomacawk

Tomacawk

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 10, 2007
Messages
3,783
Location
Central IL
ResidentWaffle said:
on the fox vs peach match-up

is it a bad idea to get behind a peach since they can nair oos? or do you have better options?

Also any general tips/links to tips for the match-up would be helpful.
Click to expand...
It's a bad idea to be just behind peach not because of nair oos, but because of fc bair oos. However, if she's in her shield and you're behind her juuust out of bair range then you're at a huge advantage. I would suggest spacing bairs on her back, however you could drillshine as well

I used to struggle with this matchup, but I recently picked up peach as a secondary and all the practice I've put into her has really exposed her weaknesses to my fox game. The biggest advice I can give you is NEVER approach. Peach's game is based entirely around turnip camping and bait/punish play. Laser a lot, probably more than any other matchup. Platform camp her, she has literally nothing she can do about it due to her really slow vertical movement.
The combination of laser camping/bairs will shut down her entire game except dash attack and turnips. Turnips are simple as long as you don't get on auto-pilot, and dash attack can be beaten by shielding it or by staying on platforms.

Try to learn how the peach is spacing her fc fairs. You can do this by dance dancing close enough to her to have her in the "I'm in danger" mindset, and see what she does. Chances are she will try to bait you into approaching, try to dash attack you and beat your reflexes because it's so fast, or fc bair/fair. After a whiffed fair is your chance to attack, but be careful--some peaches like to cover whiffed nairs with jabs/dsmashes/dash attacks. Often times the safest time to attack is to miss your opportunity on purpose and wait to see what they do when they realized they're open. You'd be surprised how often they just toss out a dash attack.

As far as general tips, don't approach with nair until she's mid-high %s because you will eat a cc dsmash. Dair is your go to approach. Shine approach can be good but it can also get you ***** by a dsmash.
Never waveshine more than once unless you're trying to get her to kill % for the usmash, because she can SDI and make it hard for you and if you miss your shine then you're looking at taking 20-60 damage from dmash
Bait a dsmash when she's above you on platforms. At high level play it becomes sort of a guessing game, you attack and they don't do it and you hit them or you attack and they do do it and you get hit. Rarely will a good peach just toss out dsmashes on platforms (however every peach knows it is an option and expect to deal with it every set)

Teching out of peaches combos is an interesting aspect of the matchup. Tech away is usually the safest route--the only way it can be punished is if they expect it and run/float that direction before you even tech. However, dash attack tech chases will often get your tech away, so if you think she's going for a dash attack then you should probably tech up, and either try to cc or buffer a roll (don't get caught by a dsmash if you do cc). Teching towards leaves you vulnerable to everything but if peach tries to get your tech away you'll usually be safe. The only way you can get hit if she tries to get tech away is if she foxtrots and can dash attack backwards or if she WDs and stops her momentum. The reason for this is her poor dash dance; this is why she is such a baiting character; she has a very short dd and cannot out maneuver you around the ledge.
 
PK Webb

PK Webb

Smash Champion
Joined
Dec 24, 2007
Messages
2,753
Location
the lab
Tomacawk said:
It's a bad idea to be just behind peach not because of nair oos, but because of fc bair oos. However, if she's in her shield and you're behind her juuust out of bair range then you're at a huge advantage. I would suggest spacing bairs on her back, however you could drillshine as well

I used to struggle with this matchup, but I recently picked up peach as a secondary and all the practice I've put into her has really exposed her weaknesses to my fox game. The biggest advice I can give you is NEVER approach. Peach's game is based entirely around turnip camping and bait/punish play. Laser a lot, probably more than any other matchup. Platform camp her, she has literally nothing she can do about it due to her really slow vertical movement.
The combination of laser camping/bairs will shut down her entire game except dash attack and turnips. Turnips are simple as long as you don't get on auto-pilot, and dash attack can be beaten by shielding it or by staying on platforms.

Try to learn how the peach is spacing her fc fairs. You can do this by dance dancing close enough to her to have her in the "I'm in danger" mindset, and see what she does. Chances are she will try to bait you into approaching, try to dash attack you and beat your reflexes because it's so fast, or fc bair/fair. After a whiffed fair is your chance to attack, but be careful--some peaches like to cover whiffed nairs with jabs/dsmashes/dash attacks. Often times the safest time to attack is to miss your opportunity on purpose and wait to see what they do when they realized they're open. You'd be surprised how often they just toss out a dash attack.

As far as general tips, don't approach with nair until she's mid-high %s because you will eat a cc dsmash. Dair is your go to approach. Shine approach can be good but it can also get you ***** by a dsmash.
Never waveshine more than once unless you're trying to get her to kill % for the usmash, because she can SDI and make it hard for you and if you miss your shine then you're looking at taking 20-60 damage from dmash
Bait a dsmash when she's above you on platforms. At high level play it becomes sort of a guessing game, you attack and they don't do it and you hit them or you attack and they do do it and you get hit. Rarely will a good peach just toss out dsmashes on platforms (however every peach knows it is an option and expect to deal with it every set)

Teching out of peaches combos is an interesting aspect of the matchup. Tech away is usually the safest route--the only way it can be punished is if they expect it and run/float that direction before you even tech. However, dash attack tech chases will often get your tech away, so if you think she's going for a dash attack then you should probably tech up, and either try to cc or buffer a roll (don't get caught by a dsmash if you do cc). Teching towards leaves you vulnerable to everything but if peach tries to get your tech away you'll usually be safe. The only way you can get hit if she tries to get tech away is if she foxtrots and can dash attack backwards or if she WDs and stops her momentum. The reason for this is her poor dash dance; this is why she is such a baiting character; she has a very short dd and cannot out maneuver you around the ledge.
Click to expand...
Such a beautiful poetic post.....I'm almost in tears
 
JPOBS

JPOBS

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 26, 2007
Messages
5,821
Location
Mos Eisley
tomacawks post was very good and pretty much covers the basics very well

the only thing i'd like to add is, if she pulls a turnip, thats usually your clue to go ape ****. she cant Dsmash OR sheild grab with a turnip in her hand. so if you see her going for one and you're close enough, take it as a free approach.
 
PK Webb

PK Webb

Smash Champion
Joined
Dec 24, 2007
Messages
2,753
Location
the lab
JPOBS said:
tomacawks post was very good and pretty much covers the basics very well

the only thing i'd like to add is, if she pulls a turnip, thats usually your clue to go ape ****. she cant Dsmash OR sheild grab with a turnip in her hand. so if you see her going for one and you're close enough, take it as a free approach.
Click to expand...
I didn't no bout the no dsmash wit a turnip....epic find for the webb today:p
 
GOD!

GOD!

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 30, 2008
Messages
778
Location
Rome, GA
Unless you're playing some random noobs then yes..

why act like the match up is so easy when its actually not?
 
KAOSTAR

KAOSTAR

the Ascended One
Joined
May 20, 2008
Messages
8,084
Location
The Wash: Lake City
You know what I meant, but if you wanna go off that little piece of bs ur spittin.

lasers become irrelevant since you only alternative is shine, knockback is the same regardless of percent so lasers dont do anything.

You basically need to beat peach with the shine only

lol
 
JPOBS

JPOBS

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 26, 2007
Messages
5,821
Location
Mos Eisley
how do you counter a samus who plays with hug's style?

like, he does lots of wavedash back oos. And ftilt pokes, and jab "pressure"
what are some good ways of playing against this style of samus?
 
GOD!

GOD!

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 30, 2008
Messages
778
Location
Rome, GA
I just got done playing with a samus like this so take my n00b advice for what its worth.

Ban FD = first step.

Smallish stages are good imo. Yoshis is a favorite.

You can laser but I don't even think its worth it against someone like this, maybe just cause it gets so boring and then she'll start shooting missiles at you. Then you're playing defensive and she has the advantage.

-Drill > shine > usmash is amazing
-Grab > uair works even at higher percents, b/c a lot of samuses will nair as soon as they can. At lower percent, a single jump gets you perfect spacing for an uair.

I never nair unless they're in the air already. Otherwise you're asking to get dsmashed.

All her smashes and even her tilts are really laggy, makes it easy to punish them. But don't get baited by an ftilt only to go in while they wavedash back > smash.

Remember that samus can't shieldgrab you (unless they're feeling bold). If they are in their shield, do something smart like running sh aerial their shield, except don't fastfall (or ff late) and land behind them. Hope for the up B oos and respond.

Bair if they're above you. Watch their percents to see when you can dash in or CC an usmash for yourself.

Your fast and she's slow. And she CC's your nair and dash attack for a while.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRxeqEUpq_w

Lucky actually uses nair as an approach.

But drillshine usmash is the truth.
 
Fortress | Sveet

Fortress | Sveet

▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀
Joined
Dec 21, 2005
Messages
16,256
Location
Northern IL
I've done write ups on the samus matchup and so have better players than me. check ckit's guide or if the information isn't very good use the search feature inside this thread.
 
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