Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-

[Fortress | Sveet]

in some ways i agree, but you can't make that your whole style vs marth. If the marth simply chose to not do one of those punishable moves, then you'll be ****ed with no openings.

Its actually very safe for fox to approach marth when he jumps in the air, as long as he is waiting to do a fair. You can simply run at him and shine him, CCing the fair as it hits then getting a free combo. Its quite hard to time the fair properly on the defensive in order to not let this happen.

Theres a lot of other really fundamental things you can exploit against marth, but those are much more difficult to explain in words on the forums and are especially important for you to discover on your own.

 

[Jimbo Slice]

Thanks for the info Sveet. The running shine thing sounds pretty good, I'll give it a try. Thanks to you too iamthemicrowave, good info even though I already knew to punish fsmash, Utilt etc. That's what lead to the problem. I got really good at punishing those moves and now my marth playing friend got smarter about it and started playing way gayer/safer.

 

[iamthemicrowave]

the shine has no range tho compared to fair, i dont think its that good of an idea. marth can easily outspace it with fair then grab u

 

[GOD!]

Yeah running shine isn't a really good idea. You can't cc a tipper fair (iirc) and even if you do and then shine, they'll still be in the air and once they hit the ground they will have no more stun while you're still in the lag from wavedashing.

 

[Tomacawk]

I agree with sveet: the point is if you see marth jumping and you're at low %, you should run towards him. if he hits you with any aerial on the way up you cc it you can punish it, if not then you're already cancelling your dash by holding down so shine and beat anything that he does
however if he's on his way down it's a different story (although I bet you could still punish fair)

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Im just telling you what kels does to me. There are ways around it and ways to get an advantage from it, but basically running into marth has no negatives for fox directly.

 

[idea]

Yeah running shine isn't a really good idea. You can't cc a tipper fair (iirc) and even if you do and then shine, they'll still be in the air and once they hit the ground they will have no more stun while you're still in the lag from wavedashing.

You can u-smash them when you CC it, unless they're moving away from you.

- Unknown522

 

[KAOSTAR]

Why dont you just do a running sidestep when you think marth is gonna swing.

Its not 100 reliable but it works sometimes. You can bait them into waiting for the sidestep and punish them doing empty jumps or just doing nothing.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

because approaching with a dodge is stupid.

 

[Silent Wolf]

you dont want to do something that works sometimes, especially something that leaves you that vulnerable.

 

[JPOBS]

or you could just, you know, let the marth fair and grab him in his lag.

DD baiting fairs is like a fox staple vs marth

 

[THeDarKnesS]

How do you beat samus and peach.

I always get downsmashed by both no matter what I do. should I just be more patient and camp more or work on being more aggressive?

 

[Turazrok]

How do you beat samus and peach.

I always get downsmashed by both no matter what I do. should I just be more patient and camp more or work on being more aggressive?

They're probably ccing your nairs or something.

You could....

SHOOT MORE LASERS

 

[THeDarKnesS]

i usually approach with uairs and drills so they cant cc

 

[ChivalRuse]

Yo, how do you guys fight Ganon? I swear it's an impossible match-up. M2K always talks about how you "run out of room" vs Jiggs. Well, vs Ganon it's the same, except when you run out of space vs Ganon and get hit, you just die, or Ganon just hits you once more. With Jiggs, she has to go out there and give you a one-two punch.

 

[THeDarKnesS]

ganon is easy tho. just a big target. just pressure hard.

 

[Teczer0]

Yo, how do you guys fight Ganon? I swear it's an impossible match-up. M2K always talks about how you "run out of room" vs Jiggs. Well, vs Ganon it's the same, except when you run out of space vs Ganon and get hit, you just die, or Ganon just hits you once more. With Jiggs, she has to go out there and give you a one-two punch.

Don't fight him if he is airborne.

Attack him as soon as he is about to hit the ground.

 

[JPOBS]

Don't fight him if he is airborne.

Attack him as soon as he is about to hit the ground.

hmm, i disagree with this advice

ganon's aerials are slow, so as soon as he's in the air, jump and hit him with anything.

this is assuming you aren't being baited with treating fairs.
waiting till he's about to hit the ground is good too though

 

[Teczer0]

If you can catch him as soon as he gets airborne sure go for it.

Its just risky. I tried giving a good rule of thumb. His upair especially doesn't come out very slow and ganons love double jump dair over aerials. I mean I wouldn't risk it very often.

 

[ChivalRuse]

This is the Ganon I have trouble with.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNbShnmpWX0

(I'm not the Fox in the video, but I just wanted to show you how good he is vs Fox)

 

[TheBrownFox]

how good should I be vs computers before I start learning advanced techniques? (l-cancel, wave dash, shuffl etc.)

 

[Jimbo Slice]

You shouldn't be too concerned with how well you do vs computers. They are extremely predictable and of little use to you to practice against. Just start out practicing against lvl 1-3 computers to get the techniques down. Alternatively, plug in another controller for a dummy or you could use the masterhand glitch to play by yourself.

 

[Silent Wolf]

This is the Ganon I have trouble with.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNbShnmpWX0

(I'm not the Fox in the video, but I just wanted to show you how good he is vs Fox)

it looks like chinesahhs way out of practice lol.

 

[TheBrownFox]

You shouldn't be too concerned with how well you do vs computers. They are extremely predictable and of little use to you to practice against. Just start out practicing against lvl 1-3 computers to get the techniques down. Alternatively, plug in another controller for a dummy or you could use the masterhand glitch to play by yourself.

would you recomend learing to l-cancel or short hop first? (which would be most helpful in learning to shuffl)

 

[Silent Wolf]

learn short hop first for sure

 

[TheBrownFox]

alright thanks.

 

[CalamityofCox]

just starting shffl means u got a long way to go for smash.

 

[ChivalRuse]

it looks like chinesahhs way out of practice lol.

I mean, Travis (Chinesahh) lost back to back Fox vs Ganon money matches, yet won the tournament. He's been playing a lot lately, so no johns. I think Voodoo just destroys Fox with Ganon.

 

[PK Webb]

Not a bad ganon reminds me of my friends

 

[KAOSTAR]

just starting shffl means u got a long way to go for smash.

aww man lol. Like its crazy when you think about how much time ppl put into this game. I cant see how ppl can just throw it away and quit.

everybody will have their time tho.

 

[GOD!]

I think Voodoo just destroys Fox with Ganon.

Does voodoo ever travel? His falcon is amazing and his ganon is obviously good too. From what I've seen, I don't know why he doesn't place well at the national level.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Chu, g-reg, Boss, Plank, Chillin, Chinesahh, Plank, Wife, or any top player in MD/VA ... Justin (Voodoo) would have a great shot at beating any of them if he counterpicked gayer. It's kind of his thing to go the same character all tournament, though, so he ends up losing when he runs into a bad match-up.

 

[Tomacawk]

Yo, how do you guys fight Ganon? I swear it's an impossible match-up. M2K always talks about how you "run out of room" vs Jiggs. Well, vs Ganon it's the same, except when you run out of space vs Ganon and get hit, you just die, or Ganon just hits you once more. With Jiggs, she has to go out there and give you a one-two punch.

IMO ganon soft counters fox. obviously few will agree with me but this matchup is really tough. as usual with fox, all your slightest mistakes will have massive negative ramifications. if you can get within shine distance of ganon then you're doing something right. the hard part is getting past his bairs/fairs/uairs which he constantly spams in your zone.
this is another one of the matchups (peach, puff, marth) that I think you will never win through approaching. laser ganons to make them come to you and then punish their whiffed aproaches. if they cover missed fairs with jab, fullhop bair punish their aerials. if they shffl uair when you full hop over them, then empty shorthop/waveland in front of them to throw them off
basically if you can get off the stage or coming towards you then you can beat him

 

[ChivalRuse]

Smart Ganons make Fox think he can punish them, then they jab/ftilt him in the snout.

 

[unknown522]

i usually approach with uairs and drills so they cant cc

drill -> shine combos, lasers, u-throw to force them to be above you. Also, if they're in the air, n-air them over and over.

 

[FoxLisk]

IMO ganon soft counters fox.

i disagree but i think what you really mean is that fox slight counters ganon but has to do 5x as much work. the matchup is just easier for ganon. if he makes one mistake, fox hits him a couple times, but if fox makes one mistake, he gets ***** and can easily lose a stock. it's like ganon slightly beats fox at a medium competitive level but at high levels fox beats ganon, IMO.

 

[JPOBS]

yea i disagree with the notion that ganon soft counters fox as well

but honestly, i dislike discussing matchups under pretenses such as "if you make a mistake you will get punished hard"

i mean, you're fox, you really think if anyone makes a mistake vs you that you wont make them QQ?
i also hate the notion that "its easier to make mistakes as fox'

 

[Tomacawk]

Hey JPOBS
Fox is the easiest character in the game to screw up with
go ahead and hate the notion but you better accept it if you plan to play fox because it is a fact

 

[JPOBS]

I know he is just because he requires the highest apm, but its entirely possible and realistic to play fox for entire sets/tournies and not mess up.

in fact, people do it :/

fox >> ganon

 

[joeplicate]

or you could just, you know, let the marth fair and grab him in his lag.

DD baiting fairs is like a fox staple vs marth

idk what you're talking about, fair is essentially unpunishable if they do it at the end of their jump and l-cancel. marth will probably grab YOU before you grab him, ken used to do this a lot iirc

Im just telling you what kels does to me. There are ways around it and ways to get an advantage from it, but basically running into marth has no negatives for fox directly.

getting grabbed? idk you have to be REALLY good with your approaches against marth. if they predict when you're gonna come in, ESPECIALLY if you have bad spacing on your nair (or whatever you approach with), you'll get punished really bad.


vs ganon i think that approaching with a fullhop nair is really good, it usually hits them with the janky part of the hitbox and stuffs whatever move they were gonna do. better than a sh nair approach anyways, which just gets eaten up by fair. after you're inside his range (with fullhop nair), that's when you go crazy and play fast