Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-

[FoxLisk]

oh when i do shdl/etc with the y button, i dont claw it. i just slide my thumb

and jpobs: yeah haha i do weird **** sometimes. realistically it's sort of beginning to become a problem, because ive been using the control stick for aerials a lot and i shouldn't let myself get sloppy like that. i think it's generally good to sort of be a taskmaster on your fingers and avoid that so you don't slip up when it matters, and you dont develop habits like i am.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

I use that exact setup (L for tech/shield/lcancel, R for WD) except i use Y not X. When i first started playing, i read a thread about button efficiency that talked about stuff like the benefits of keeping WD movement to one hand (keeps synchronization more standardized) and using different buttons for WD and shield (wd oos is quite difficult to be consistent with without this)

 

[Silent Wolf]

WDing with r is way too weird lol. i use l for wd/lcancel and r for shield/tech and y to jump.

 

[KirbyKaze]

SW your avatar is adorable.

 

[KAOSTAR]

does any other fox main use this setup? I just recently changed to this because i couldn't ever WD full length with X + L, but now i can with this setup. i know you should use whatever is most comfortable, but i just want to get an idea of other fox main's setup:
X + R = WD
L = Shield
L = Tech
X = Jump
L = L-cancel

I use
X+R=WD
R=Sheild
R=L cancel
L=djc L cancel(m2 only)
L=shield stop/pivot
x=jump
R=tech
Z=nairs, bairs
c stick=dairs fairs bairs
I use Y for multishines(I just learned how two days ago ) and up to cancel into double shines

shdl with x t b

 

[JPOBS]

WD oos with 1 button is only hard if you've only tried it like...once.

L for bsolutely everything involving triggers
Stick= shdl, ledgehopping, shine bairs, shine grab
X= all other jumps
c stick= all aerials except nairs and lazy bairs
Y= JC grab

 

[Kanelol]

How do you guys Wavedash with L


weirdos


with R you just kind of clench your hand and you WD


with L you have to coordinate like 2 hands at once


ew

 

[JPOBS]

I've always thought that the more techniques you seperate into the different hands, the more consistent and frame tight they will be overall.

I have no backing for this though just what I believed

 

[DtJ Jungle]

i use R for everything

 

[KAOSTAR]

I've always thought that the more techniques you seperate into the different hands, the more consistent and frame tight they will be overall.

I have no backing for this though just what I believed

no it makes sense tho. You spread the work out. Theoretically you should be able to do "more" work if u use more buttons, but its always on the individual.

I also sheild drop exclusively with L.

 

[Animal]

R for everything ****.

 

[KAOSTAR]

cant have **** without "R"

 

[Silent Wolf]

cant have **** without "R"

you still have ape tho, which is almost as good.

 

[iamthemicrowave]

i use r for everything

 

[GOD!]

If you aren't using the control stick to sh while you're shield pressuring, you're crazy.
It doesn't take to long to learn.. and mango did it on armada.

 

[KAOSTAR]

you still have ape tho, which is almost as good.

lol my god, I never thought of it like that, this is life changing.

If you aren't using the control stick to sh while you're shield pressuring, you're crazy.
It doesn't take to long to learn.. and mango did it on armada.

none of this means its a good/useful technique.

 

[GOD!]

Ok well try shield pressuring with x, y, and the control stick. I tried all of them. The control stick is already in your hand so you don't have to worry about moving your right hand from x>b and back or from y>b and back. You also get out of your shine and into the next sh aerial as fast as possible; a lot of good players will try and grab after the shine so this is very useful.

I could only ever get 5 or 6 sh nair shines in a row using x and y. With the control stick I can get at least 7 or 8 and I just started, plus the aerials and shines are faster.

If you haven't tried it yet, you should.

 

[Kanelol]

I can't Sh out of shine with the control stick :[

Nair shining with Y is ez mode

 

[JPOBS]

i use X to sheild pressure.

and i can only get like 3 nair->shines in a row

get at me.

I honestly feel like its unneccessary to be able to do anymore tho. Good players wont just sit in sheild while you hack away, and the longer you pressure, the more chances they have to pick you apart.

 

[KAOSTAR]

Ok well try shield pressuring with x, y, and the control stick. I tried all of them. The control stick is already in your hand so you don't have to worry about moving your right hand from x>b and back or from y>b and back. You also get out of your shine and into the next sh aerial as fast as possible; a lot of good players will try and grab after the shine so this is very useful.

I could only ever get 5 or 6 sh nair shines in a row using x and y. With the control stick I can get at least 7 or 8 and I just started, plus the aerials and shines are faster.

If you haven't tried it yet, you should.

Im not sayin it cant be useful, only that x person doing it to y person doesnt mean its good.

Thinking about it it seems easier to claw, but it follows the using more fingers to do same work=easier kinda thing.

it just seems like you have to switch your hand position alot, ffrom shield pressure to regular.

which fingers do you use for each button? thumbs on sticks, using index and middle or just 1 finger?

 

[GOD!]

I don't claw or anything like that.
X and R to wavedash
L to shield, tech, and l-cancel.

When I approach with an aerial I sh with x (that's just how I learned to do it). If they hold shield and I don't want to grab (like against a peach or a doc), I'll just move my right thumb to b and start shield pressuring with sh nair> shine.

Sh with control stick is easier for me after a shine. I can shield pressure fine, but I'm not nearly as consistent just standing and then short hopping from there. In m2k vs. armada at pound 4, m2k would do that little shine >shdl > repeat sequence, using the same motion I'm talking about. Shine to sh, no claw. Takes a week to learn and is pretty useful in some matchups.

 

[KAOSTAR]

but do you use your thumb then for sh has well, on the c stick, and then just move it up to B

so like flic from stick to b while hitting down on the control stick at appropriate times?

 

[GOD!]

I'll just go through what I do.. my minds kind of foggy atm.

So a peach is shielding.

I run up, sh with right thumb on x
nair with right thumb on A
FF with control stick
l-cancel with left index on L
Shine with right thumb on b

Then

flick up the control stick slightly with my left thumb
Move from B to A with my right thumb to nair
Move back down on the control stick with my left thumb to Fast fall
L-cancel with left index finger
Shine with right thumb on B.

And then repeat these til I screwe up or she gets hit.

Just watch mango vs. armada and peach is just stuck in her shield. It was beautiful.

 

[Tomacawk]

bah I wasn't gunna give in to this button nonsense but I can't resist now that so many people have posted about it
WD: R
L cancel: R, L depending on the situation
WD oos: L
SHDL: up
SHL: Y
multishines: Y
jump: Y
shine bear: up
and I play semi-claw, meaning I have normal hand movements but I switch to claw for bursts of tech where I need to claw. fast dj bairs, ledge hop bairs, sometimes dj uair on puff--all of these I claw
I've found that the more I play this game the more buttons I naturally learn to include in my game to make my hand movements more efficient.

 

[Rubyiris]

I do pretty much everything with l and y.

I do shine usmash, and shine bair with up though. >_>

 

[KAOSTAR]

Lol, the whole time I was thinking C-stick, for some reason control stick became c stick in my mind.

but yea I see what you mean, I have a stick thats "vertically loose" so I can sh with up on the stick but its not very easy. lately Ive been able to shdl but thats it really. I use x for that anyway so its all good.

 

[Korrupshen]

Can anyone teach me how to JC-Shine, but not at this speed of course...though if I can do it at that speed it would be nice ^^

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ql5eh4LxpU8

 

[Silent Wolf]

Can anyone teach me how to JC-Shine, but not at this speed of course...though if I can do it at that speed it would be nice ^^

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ql5eh4LxpU8

press B, lift from B to Y, slide from Y to B, repeat. if youre leavnig the ground youre going too slow, if you stay in your shine youre going too fast. practice with falco first if you need to.

 

[TemPesT-]

yo silentwolf, can you do shield drops out of shield pressure?

i'm trying to do this, and it seems way to hard to get consistant enough at it (and this is without someone attacking me).

i'm just curious if its something you've looked into or practiced.

 

[KAOSTAR]

during shield stun you will SDI down probably at an angle.

when its over you are free to shield drop, just like you can do anything else.

on a platform you can sd and ff to get away, good if they fade back,or they are rising up with an attack you might wanna just shine oos tho.

 

[TemPesT-]

@ Kaos theres a vid out of someone using shield drops out of shield pressure, with AR. and it's crazy how effective it could be. i wasn't asking if its possible, i just wanted to know if SW could do it or not.

 

[KAOSTAR]

Lol my fault

 

[Kanelol]

Shield dropping nairs out of shield pressure is for weirdos

 

[D1]

What are the main essentials that every Fox must know when it comes to the Fox v. Marth matchup?

I know uthrow uair/bair mixups ****.

I know you can't attack where Marth is, you gotta attack past him cuz thats where he's gonna be most of the time.

To counter the CC grabs whenever I shoot for a nair...should I immediately do another aerial right after shffling a nair into a Marth who's ready to CC grab? Or should I shffl a dair and make sure I fastfall it so he can't DI out?

Also since most Marths fsmash Fox's outta their dash dance, should I bait it...then shield wd outta shield to grab then uthrow to **** mixups?

A few pot shots w/ lasers from afar but I never get too greedy.

I know the lightshield edgehog trick, and how there's an ample amount of time to shinespike him when he forward B's as he's recovering.

I need help with Fox v. Marth on YS, FD, and FoD. (Also what's the best way to deal w/ a situation where you get uthrown and have to deal w/ an utilt/uair followup)

If you guys got anymore tips please share.

Also general Fox tips vs. platform camping Shieks.

 

[FoxLisk]

What are the main essentials that every Fox must know when it comes to the Fox v. Marth matchup?
I know you can't attack where Marth is, you gotta attack past him cuz thats where he's gonna be most of the time.

most of the time you're better off if he's approaching you. if you're approaching him, this is generally true, though.

To counter the CC grabs whenever I shoot for a nair...should I immediately do another aerial right after shffling a nair into a Marth who's ready to CC grab? Or should I shffl a dair and make sure I fastfall it so he can't DI out?

you dont have time to do another aerial. what you should do is not nair a marth who is good at CCing it until he's at pretty reasonable percent. for a strong nair that's probably in the 40s or 50s; if you start your nair early and hit him with the weak part, it's like.. ungodly high.

Also since most Marths fsmash Fox's outta their dash dance, should I bait it...then shield wd outta shield to grab then uthrow to **** mixups?

most marths dtilt or dash attack Foxes out of dash dances, in my experience. you should not dash dance gratuitously, avoid DDing when you dont have a good amount of space behind you, shield or CCgrab/shine dash attacks, and jump or use platforms if your opponent uses a lot of dtilts.

I need help with Fox v. Marth on YS, FD, and FoD.

don't we all

(Also what's the best way to deal w/ a situation where you get uthrown and have to deal w/ an utilt/uair followup)

avoid getting grabbed as much as possible. DI to a platform if you can. DI the uptilt behind marth as much as possible unless it will send you off the ledge, in which case try to get to a platform and tech it and then CC and jump out if you're at low percent and just pray if you're already at pretty high percent.

Also general Fox tips vs. platform camping Shieks.

sheik is one of my worse matchups, but if they're just platform camping, you have a MUCH better camping game. laser her until she gives up and approaches. be careful though.

 

[D1]

THanks Foxislk!

In my experience M2K, Azen, and HBK fsmashed me outta my dash dances T_T. Tippers too. So in early percents camp w/ laser and aim for waveshines/grabs to build up percent? 1 waveshine can lead to major damage if he cant SDI the uair correct?

 

[Silent Wolf]

yo silentwolf, can you do shield drops out of shield pressure?

i'm trying to do this, and it seems way to hard to get consistant enough at it (and this is without someone attacking me).

i'm just curious if its something you've looked into or practiced.

i cant shield drop unless its from a dash very consistently, so i dont thin i could do it reliably. ill work on it though.

d1 - usually marths use side b when recovering when they shouldnt (anytime besides waiting for them to roll from the ledge) so jumping out there and shining when theyre pretty far works often on some marths. they dont expect it. just kind of go out there and see what they do first though.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

^ yeah lots of marths recover incorrectly, but fox doesn't really have a good way to punish it unlike other characters (falcon and ganon can fair/bair you in the face for it). Idk about jumping out and shining, cause if youre against a decent level marth you will end up dead from it.

I prefer just grabbing the edge and doing an invincible shine->bair as they upb, it covers all options.

 

[JPOBS]

What are the main essentials that every Fox must know when it comes to the Fox v. Marth matchup?

I know uthrow uair/bair mixups ****.

I know you can't attack where Marth is, you gotta attack past him cuz thats where he's gonna be most of the time.

To counter the CC grabs whenever I shoot for a nair...should I immediately do another aerial right after shffling a nair into a Marth who's ready to CC grab? Or should I shffl a dair and make sure I fastfall it so he can't DI out?

Also since most Marths fsmash Fox's outta their dash dance, should I bait it...then shield wd outta shield to grab then uthrow to **** mixups?

A few pot shots w/ lasers from afar but I never get too greedy.

I know the lightshield edgehog trick, and how there's an ample amount of time to shinespike him when he forward B's as he's recovering.

I need help with Fox v. Marth on YS, FD, and FoD. (Also what's the best way to deal w/ a situation where you get uthrown and have to deal w/ an utilt/uair followup)

If you guys got anymore tips please share.

Also general Fox tips vs. platform camping Shieks.

Foxlisk gave you some pretty solid general advice so i wont repeat that too mcuh, instead, im pretty bored so im going to throw out random tidbits of knowledge/tricksies that could save you so you should just know them.

Ya, approaching marth isnt the best thing. he's a lot weaker when he's forced to approach. So, gain a lead with lasers and force him to come at you. marths will generally perfer to dtilt space you if you're DD, but if you have been eating Fsmashes and can call them, then shield it and WD oos upsmash/grab. Its pretty easy to see coming, they like to dd and WD forward into fsmash so when I see that WD coming at me I sheild and its usually pretty easy to prevent.

when he's trying to chaingrab you, between about 24-29% if you dont DI, you can shine out and break the chain grab. he can counter this by pivot grabbing you though so its not a perfect method if he knows how.
at about mid 30's he is going to start trying to uptilt you. if it looks like your falling really low and you can tech, dont. a common tech trap is right around 30% he uptilts you late, you miss the tech and then jab reset->death. M2k does this all the time. save your tech until atleast after the first uptilt hits you and you have a better chance. that is unless you're sure you can tech it and get away lol. otherwise, DI towards his back to make it harder for him to combo

if you ever land on the top platform and miss the tech, whatever you decide to do (stand or roll doesnt really matter) start holding down and sheild. If he tries to nair you (which covers many of your options), the first hit of the nair is very weak so you CC it and then sheild the second hit and break his combo. this works up to pretty high percents. if he chooses to upair, hopefully you can CC it successfully but upair breaks your CC at lower percents.

if he grabs you near the ledge, he's probably going to try to gimp you. DI off the stage so that you dont get dtilted, then try to DJ sweetspot or whatever you want to do.

dont attack into his dash dance camp. you will whiff and then die.

k thats all i can think of for now.

 

[FoxLisk]

THanks Foxislk!

In my experience M2K, Azen, and HBK fsmashed me outta my dash dances T_T. Tippers too. So in early percents camp w/ laser and aim for waveshines/grabs to build up percent? 1 waveshine can lead to major damage if he cant SDI the uair correct?

heh, Azen has amazing spacing and prediction, so he will just fsmash at the right times. M2K also has ridiculous spacing and probably just knows that against anyone who isn't a top pro it's not gonna matter much if he's wrong, anyway. I don't know much about HBK. In general though, dtilts and a few dash attacks are more common.

but uh. i mean, conventional matchup knowledge is DD, laser, force him to approach. realistically that doesn't work much. you have to laser very sparingly or else he'll get your number and walk up and **** you. generally going for grabs is good, you should at least get a bair. if you can land a shine, wd grab is good, if they're not expecting it wd out run up and nair works and can lead to nasty combos sometimes. basically though marth can cover all your options so you just have to out space and out predict him most of the time. it's a really, really hard matchup.