Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-

[aquanesia]

noob question, sorry if it's answered somewhere in an obvious place

I'm having problems lcanceling dair and I can't quite pin down why my muscle memory isn't getting the job done. I've heard that the dair lcancel is one of the more difficult in the game and now I'm wondering why it is if it is? And if that's the reasons for my troubles.

Also what would be the best thing/stuff to read if I want to learn about all the fox strategy and tactics, beyond the basic nair, shine, upthrow etc.
I mean without scrolling through 504 pages.....

 

[Tomacawk]

to get your nair l cancels down, practicepracticepracticepracticepracticepracticepracticepracticepractice
also, try practicing some more
rather than read, you should watch people and think of why they did what they did

 

[Lovage]

when in doubt (hitting 2 or more things at once, they powershielded, its a weird character) l cancel twice

unlike teching, there's no punishment if you just spam L/R to L cancel

 

[voorhese]

when in doubt (hitting 2 or more things at once, they powershielded, its a weird character) l cancel twice

unlike teching, there's no punishment if you just spam L/R to L cancel

yah for ganon i used to hit L 2-3 time for every l-cancle

 

[EC_Joey]

I'm having problems lcanceling dair and I can't quite pin down why my muscle memory isn't getting the job done. I've heard that the dair lcancel is one of the more difficult in the game and now I'm wondering why it is if it is? And if that's the reasons for my troubles.

The reason why it is one of the more difficult aerials to L-cancel is because there are many small hits that come out. When you are hitting another person's shield with it, you receive extra hitlag for each hit that connects with the shield, delaying your landing on the ground.

Depending on how many hits of the dair connect, and your downward momentum, muscle memory usually won't be enough to consistently L-cancel the wide range of timings. To get it down it's a combination of watching closely and experience.

 

[Tomacawk]

when in doubt (hitting 2 or more things at once, they powershielded, its a weird character) l cancel twice

unlike teching, there's no punishment if you just spam L/R to L cancel

WOW I had no ****ing idea
I'm never missing an l cancel again

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

when in doubt (hitting 2 or more things at once, they powershielded, its a weird character) l cancel twice

unlike teching, there's no punishment if you just spam L/R to L cancel

ORLY???

I knew that was true for ssb64 but i thought they removed that for melee.... nice! too bad i already have learned to lcancel 100.00001% of the time

 

[iamthemicrowave]

remember back in the day when dl64 was considered a stage to counterpick fox??

lol

 

[DtJ Jungle]

lol someone brought up spamming l/r to l cancel int eh Q&A Thread

its awesome.

 

[FluxWolf]

i HATE it when ppl do that LMAO because i can hear it on their controller when im playing them it annoys me SO MUCH hahaha

 

[Silent Wolf]

who actually does that tho lol

 

[Rubyiris]

I might start doing that when I dair shields tbh.

 

[ChivalRuse]

It's so much wasted effort. You already have to worry about all those other buttons you have to press.

 

[Rubyiris]

It's so much wasted effort. You already have to worry about all those other buttons you have to press.

the only thing I have to worry about is how quickly I release the Y button. Just about everything else is automatic.

I still miss the dair on shield l cancel like all the time though.

 

[EC_Joey]

It sucks when your finger is itching to press L or R from muscle memory but you know that due to shield stun it's too early to do it.

 

[RaynEX]

Adjusting to things like shield stun is tough. Doing it while playing a character as fast as Fox makes it even more difficult.

 

[LumpyCPU...]

^^^^ my biggest issue lately

 

[RaynEX]

My biggest issue right now is edge-guarding every single character properly. Even the low and mid tiers. I don't have a strategy for every character and it hurt me alot at Pound. I want at least 90% consistency when I knock any opponent off the stage.

With shine and bair its honestly not an impossible goal. Reacting and executing with M2k-like precision on the edge...

practice practice pracitce

 

[KAOSTAR]

who actually does that tho lol

Stefan use to do it lol.

 

[Incronaut]

if PS is banned, where is the next best place to counterpick a marth? given corneria is not legal or whatever

 

[TresChikon]

I like DL, the platforms let you camp him pretty hard and their heights prevent him from having the amount of control he would have on YS or BF.

Grabs, however will destroy you on stage, but at least you can avoid tipper nonsense on DL.

 

[KAOSTAR]

Thats coupled with dreamland being a bad marth stage in general

 

[LumpyCPU...]

hitting L/R twice would be easier if it weren't spring loaded...
there's like an inch of depth for L and R lol

maybe i'll hit L and R everytime i bair a shield... idk if it's worth learning this over learning it the traditional way.

@incronaut: pound4 stage set kinda ***** fox's balls...
i like the fod and yoshi's against marth but that's my personal preference.
have you considered learning to camp on dreamland or kongo 64?

i guess i'm not the best person to talk about stages with

 

[AnDaLe]

How exactly do I smash DI when shielding against Fox's dair then buffer grab?

 

[Lovage]

while your shield is being hit by dair, hold away so you ASDI each hit. by the end of the dair hopefully you would have slid far enough away so that the last hit or two don't connect and you can shield grab him.

 

[AnDaLe]

alright, thanks, I didn't no if it was ASDI or actually "smashing" to DI.

 

[LumpyCPU...]

so holding away while in your shield won't tilt your shield backwards if it's already being hit by the dair?

or are you guys talking about cstick di? (idk what these things are called)

 

[RaynEX]

if PS is banned, where is the next best place to counterpick a marth? given corneria is not legal or whatever

Dreamland to run away and escape platform combos. The platforms that usually screw you over actually help you on DL. Its hard for Marth to chase you on them because of how high and wide they are.

Stadium is always good. Walls appearing everywhere, lots of room to run and be silly. Edge-guarding is a bit easier because Its hard for Marth to sweetspot. Some of the transformations allow you to dsmash lower than you normally could and hit him. (grass)

Don't go to BF. No wall means you get knocked off and die, no question. Losing your ability to tech makes counter more stupid than it already is.

How exactly do I smash DI when shielding against Fox's dair then buffer grab?

Lovage was correct.

However, buffering a grab is impossible.

 

[TresChikon]

so holding away while in your shield won't tilt your shield backwards if it's already being hit by the dair?

or are you guys talking about cstick di? (idk what these things are called)

Shield stun doesn't allow you to do anything, but (automatic) smash DI.

So you can't tilt even if you wanted to.

Holding away lets you ASDI and scoot away at the end of a hit, and since dair is multi-hit, you scoot away quite considerably without even having to SDI.

 

[unknown522]

if PS is banned, where is the next best place to counterpick a marth? given corneria is not legal or whatever

yoshi's, DL, FoD maybe, KJ64, rainbow cruise, or brinstar.

I'm not saying that these are amazing stages to pick, but with limited options, these are probably your best choices. RC is your best, but I'd never pick it.

 

[EC_Joey]

hitting L/R twice would be easier if it weren't spring loaded...
there's like an inch of depth for L and R lol

I know a few people who've removed the spring from either L or R, essentially turning it into a regular button. It's very nice, but it feels weird at first and I've heard different opinions on whether it's an "illegal controller mod" or not.

 

[Incronaut]

i think lovage cut his spring in half, but he'll prolly tell you himself what he did haha... -.-

is it possible to tech marth's counter when recovering on say FD?

 

[DtJ Jungle]

i believe so

thet imings just weird.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Stop flaunting your premium membership, Jungle!

 

[`DNS`]

i think lovage cut his spring in half, but he'll prolly tell you himself what he did haha... -.-

is it possible to tech marth's counter when recovering on say FD?

ya
the hitlag doesn't actually start til he swings his sword.. tho it seems like it starts when you hit him, it doesn't
press r/l right before he swings his sword, and when it hits you SDI into the ledge/stage

i don't think it's possible without smash DI (or having a wall behind you or something)


also my r button is worn out so much the spring barely does anything.. i was playing melee at my friends house who barely uses his gcn controllers and it was sooo weird i couldn't even wd properly

BUT you don't have to push it down all the way so that doesn't even matter; just spam light taps if you really want to >___>

 

[joeplicate]

a word of advice from me:
i have good shine oos


most people who can do it well may try to spam it (me, eggm, lol) or otherwise they'll just use it once to get out of shield pressure (lucky), but jump in the air first and then just jump away

IMO nobody is really good enough (that i've seen) to be technical enough to do a perfect shine OOS, but smart enough to mix it up with other options (upsmash, bair/nair oos)

BE WARNED
that most people won't really spam it in tournament
and if they do, then your best option is probably just
trying to mix up the timing on your nair, so they **** up the timing on shine oos (it's pretty automatic) and do a spot dodge instead

so as long as you're creative, you don't have to worry about it too much



oh, also
doubleshine destroys shine OOS

 

[LumpyCPU...]

hrmm... my R is already really loose so it's not difficult to press.

i didn't know you could L cancel with a light shield input too.
i'm learning new things everyday.

 

[Tomacawk]

I've never played somebody who is good at shine oos but when I do I'll have mah doubleshines ready =D
technical fox dittos are a vortex of mindgames in regards to what techy thing you should do to counter their techy thing

 

[voorhese]

I've never played somebody who is good at shine oos but when I do I'll have mah doubleshines ready =D
technical fox dittos are a vortex of mindgames in regards to what techy thing you should do to counter their techy thing

well hai there

 

[Tomacawk]

voorhese i'm not saying you dont shine oos im just sayin you havent done it to me b4 lol
BUT if you are thunders oosing now i can't wait to try to deal with that **** =D