Q&A -Fox Advice/Questions Topic-

[DippnDots]

Pivoting is so fun once you get it down, makes you feel like a pro too.

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

what's the most effective way to get down aerial -> waveshine -> jab against falco? i feel like no matter how much i try the jab is just not in reach, guess i just gotta WD farther?

and what percents is this best? or usable at all more specifically.

also what other characters does this work best on?

 

[soap]

u gotta visualize a long wavedash, then do it really fast.

if i don't visualize it it wont go far enough.

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

hmm, i don't really get that at all D:

 

[soap]

just like picture it in your mind a split second before u do it, and your fingers just do it. Iono its how i do hard stuff

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

oh i see. well hmm, but minus the visualizing i bascially wanna attempt to wd farther right? is that most likely the reason? or just faster?

 

[EC_Joey]

You want to get it fast and far. You can actually catch them with the jab with a really short and fast wavedash, but then you will be a little too far from the falco to pull off a decent followup.

You want to get the wavedash out as fast as you can after the shine, because any time you spend still in the shine after the initial hit is wasted time. The long wavedash is more for positioning so that it's easier for you to get a grab, upsmash, upair, etc.

 

[soap]

don't go too fast or u will miss the jc due to hitlag.

quick and rhythymically

 

[x After Dawn x]

what's the most effective way to get down aerial -> waveshine -> jab against falco? i feel like no matter how much i try the jab is just not in reach, guess i just gotta WD farther?

and what percents is this best? or usable at all more specifically.

also what other characters does this work best on?

Fox's shine has fixed knockback, so you can pretty much do it at any percent, but the aerial > shine is best at low - mid percents, at high percents it might send them too far away (unless you dair).

That's actually called a Thunder's Combo, it works on any char that falls from a shine. Look up a list if you need.

Make sure your wd is a optimized as possible to being a perfect wd by being as parallel as possible to the ground when you wd. The more perpendicular you are, the easier it is to perform, but you won't go as far, ruining its utility.

 

[Silent Wolf]

get used to being able to perfect wavedash after everything used regularly leading into it for best results

 

[TresChikon]

what's the most effective way to get down aerial -> waveshine -> jab against falco?

at a wall, really works

 

[TresChikon]

Hey I got a situation with a Ganon player, she keeps SDIing it or something so the shine won't hit.

Should I follow up with something else or just not dair?

 

[_Rocky_]

Hey I got a situation with a Ganon player, she keeps SDIing it or something so the shine won't hit.

Should I follow up with something else or just not dair?

switch it up, try using nair or simply just the shine to approach her -> waveshine or w/e

 

[x After Dawn x]

If the Ganon player is waiting for you to approach with a sh dair, you can always just run at her and dash cancel into waveshine. Or, as Rocky said, switch it up and use nair. Nair is probably better anyway, especially at lower percentages.

 

[TresChikon]

Ah kay, I definitely want to mix things up. It's just that at mid percentages, it's hard to pull off shine combos, she instinctively SDI's my aerials like crazy.

Is there any way to punish predictable SDI? Sometimes I can drill-Usmash, but then she started jabbing me out of it. I tried drillgrab which works sometimes, I just need to think my way through it.

I just want to punish in a way to make her think again before mindlessly DIing my aerials.

 

[EC_Joey]

Nair -> Shine -> Nair -> Shine -> Nair -> Shine -> Nair -> Shine -> Nair -> Shine

I hear it's perty gud.

 

[Brookman]

If the Ganon player is waiting for you to approach with a sh dair, you can always just run at her and dash cancel into waveshine. Or, as Rocky said, switch it up and use nair. Nair is probably better anyway, especially at lower percentages.

this sounds stupid.

If ganon is guarding his spot with fairs then use your laser to harass him. If he's guarding with jab/f tilt your your down/forward tilt. Or continue to harass with lasers.

when ganon is using his fair/ up air it can be hard to approach in the air, and if you try to beat/meet his attacks you're going to be dying really fast. just stay outside his fair range, watch for his b moves and f tilt and when you open him up nair > shine or nair > grab.

Since the drill has so many hits it can be relatively easy to sdi out of it, instead of using thee shine just use your up tilt/grab depending on the direction they go. Pay VERY CLOSE ATTENTION. You may be able to follow their SDI while in the air with the dril.

If all else fails, just use your up smash. >:D

 

[TresChikon]

U-tilt!
Gawsh! why didn't think of that? High priority and combobility!

She always SDI's away, so reverse u-tilt will make her think twice about it.

Thanks Brookman!

Nair -> Shine -> Nair -> Shine -> Nair -> Shine -> Nair -> Shine -> Nair -> Shine

I hear it's perty gud.

(Nairshine is good but fairshine is cooler)

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

i agree with brookman on this. ganon's fair leaves little room for punishment in good spacing, and ganon wins even if its a trade. make him approach and punish that. fox's speed is top tier.

 

[Meneks]

Oh okay I totally understand how to shield drop down platforms like that now..
But what are the common uses for it?
I havn't tried to implement it into my playstyle..
Is it even worth it?

edit: Late post

 

[RaynEX]

U-tilt!
Gawsh! why didn't think of that? High priority and combobility!

She always SDI's away, so reverse u-tilt will make her think twice about it.

Thanks Brookman!



(Nairshine is good but fairshine is cooler)

Brookman's post was the most helpful to your situation. He had really good advice. To add on to that:

Try dashdancing a bit to see what your opponent is doing. If it seems like they are reacting to your jumps, try running in mid-range and empty shing to force out lag. If the Ganon commits, you can try jumping over and bairing -> pressure from behind. You can substitute the jump over bair for: jump over dair from behind >utilt. (as per Brook's suggestion)

If the Ganon tries to predict you with uair or fair really high up, maybe running straight under could prove useful. Its not always the most common answers that will be the best ones. Try everything out and see what works best. Adapt and attempt to be creative with your move selection and movement patterns.

Oh, and don't forget to shoot! Lasering gives you more time to think, and may make your opponent try to hastily approach you.

Oh okay I totally understand how to shield drop down platforms like that now..
But what are the common uses for it?
I havn't tried to implement it into my playstyle..
Is it even worth it?

edit: Late post

It helps your overall fluidity. Expanding your movement game is key with Fox. It helps you keep from getting cornered or platform chased, and provides you with more options than 'jump away' or 'drop through with attack'. Its especially beneficial because your shield actually comes up a split second before you drop, meaning you can sometimes defend yourself from your opponent's attacks.

 

[Brookman]

Just roll. It makes you invincible.

 

[GOTM]

Just roll. It makes you invincible.

i concur.

also if you just stand there and shoot lasers they cant hit you because you are shooting them. i mean do you even watch movies?

 

[EC_Joey]

Oh okay I totally understand how to shield drop down platforms like that now..
But what are the common uses for it?
I havn't tried to implement it into my playstyle..
Is it even worth it?

edit: Late post

With a dashing shield drop you actually have forward momentum when you're dropping through, which gives you slightly more range with your aerials than if you chose to drop through the platform normally.

 

[Silent Wolf]

With a dashing shield drop you actually have forward momentum when you're dropping through, which gives you slightly more range with your aerials than if you chose to drop through the platform normally.

if you shield out of a dash it cancels all your momentum pretty much immediately
if you wavedash into sheild it doesnt, so if you want your momentum you would have to do a spaced wd then fall thru

 

[Meneks]

Alright well i just learned it...
Its actually pretty easy but implementing it is going to be weird

 

[TresChikon]

Try dashdancing a bit to see what your opponent is doing. If it seems like they are reacting to your jumps, try running in mid-range and empty shing to force out lag. If the Ganon commits, you can try jumping over and bairing -> pressure from behind. You can substitute the jump over bair for: jump over dair from behind >utilt. (as per Brook's suggestion)

If the Ganon tries to predict you with uair or fair really high up, maybe running straight under could prove useful.

Oh, and don't forget to shoot!

Dang, I'm seriously forgetting about the basics.

I've never used empty shines, but I'm neglecting similar stuff like empty SH's. By doing nothing I could actually be doing more.

That shine baiting does sound really cool, I can't wait to test it out.

Lasers, heh, good for Ganon harassment.

So, by the looks of the advice I'm getting, it almost seems like it's a good thing that the Ganon SDI's so systematically.

At least, until she catches on and mixes it up. Ugh.

Thanks a lot guys!

 

[Lovage]

dashing shield drop doesn't really slow your momentum much because you're putting the shield up for a few frames. if you do it fast enough you can't really see the shield pulse up anymore

 

[Silent Wolf]

theres no way you can keep your full momentum, pressing down for even the slightest bit of time slows you to the point where the dash, shield has no additional effect.
pressing down when you fall thru that is

edit: if you walk into shield it doesnt cancel your lag
running into shield really doesnt seem like it leaves an opening

edit 2: just used ar, you stop when you shield out of dash no matter what, it comes out in one frame

 

[EC_Joey]

You don't keep your full momentum, but you still have some while dropping through the platform. Your shield slides a slight distance when you do it from a dash.

 

[TresChikon]

edit 2: just used ar, you stop when you shield out of dash no matter what, it comes out in one frame

Includes initial dash animation?

 

[Silent Wolf]

You don't keep your full momentum, but you still have some while dropping through the platform. Your shield slides a slight distance when you do it from a dash.

you dont have anymore than you would if you were to fall thru any other way other than walking and falling thru and Wding and falling thru

edit: if you want to see, try doing a dash, shield, jump and see if you can do it once while keeping dash momentum, theres not even a one frame opening for you to keep momentum between when you stop and shield

edit 2: why would you even want to be able to dash shield drop and keep forward momentum..

im pretty sure you can WD or walk into a shield and fall thru and save a little momentum, but you cant dash and do it. try WD and walk into shield and and you can jump out keeping as much momentum as if you dashed and jumped, then try it with dash, you cant keep any additional momentum

edit 3: i just did some more testing and you can dash into shield next to a ledge and have enough momentum to slide off the ledge, but it doesnt give you any additional momentum when you jump or fall thru during the movement between when you press L or R and when you actually stop you dont get any extra momentum

edit 4: LOL im hella gay, you do have like a frame opening to jump and keep momentum and fall thru too. doesnt seem like itd be worth learning tho lol edit5? actually after trying it a few times its really easy, but still pretty useless

 

[TresChikon]

Assuming that if dash into shield drop does conserve momentum, what would the uses be?

If you get hit in your shield wouldn't the shield lag defeat the purpose?

 

[EC_Joey]

Assuming that if dash into shield drop does conserve momentum, what would the uses be?

If you get hit in your shield wouldn't the shield lag defeat the purpose?

The way I see it, it's a faster way of getting through and across a platform, apart from fastfalling straight through. The only application I can think of is getting to one end of a platform faster to pull off an edgeguard or followup in a combo, but it's really situational and wavelanding is usually a better option for those purposes.

 

[Silent Wolf]

I have one useful situation, if it ever happened >_>
Lets say a recovering Falco jump and lasers right above the platform while recovering and youre on the platforms. you could dash power shield it and fall thru fast enough to combo the laser into an fsmash or dsmash because he already jumped, though he could air dodge.
yeah its useless

 

[Little England]

Question #1

I recently started dairing spacies when they recover below the stage with their upB's. Even though this is an old strat, I've started testing it to see just how useful it is. I've found it pretty **** useful because unlike dsmashing and dair can't be teched. Dairing has set me up for an edge hog or an easy shine spike. What is your take on using dair as an edgeguarding tool?

Question #2

I've tried the same thing on Marth a little bit but in a different way. What I do is stand right at the end of the stage to bait their upB. The timing is kinda tricky (to describe) but you full jump dair so that you dodge the tip of the sword and hit them with the dair as you are coming down. This is just something I do if I can't grab the ledge or lightshield fast enough. idunno about this one though because I'm not sure exactly how I should follow it up. Thoughts?

 

[Meneks]

Quick pointless question....
I can do some really stupid stuff(multishine oos, multishine waveshine oos, multishine everything) But for some odd reason I can NOT dashdance without the dust clouds appearing..
Is there some trick to it that i don't know about or something?

 

[Lovage]

Question #1

I recently started dairing spacies when they recover below the stage with their upB's. Even though this is an old strat, I've started testing it to see just how useful it is. I've found it pretty **** useful because unlike dsmashing and dair can't be teched. Dairing has set me up for an edge hog or an easy shine spike. What is your take on using dair as an edgeguarding tool?

Question #2

I've tried the same thing on Marth a little bit but in a different way. What I do is stand right at the end of the stage to bait their upB. The timing is kinda tricky but you full jump dair to that you dodge the tip of the sword and hit them with the dair as you are coming down. This is just something I do if I can't grab the ledge or lightshield fast enough. idunno about this one though because I'm not sure exactly how I should follow it up. Thoughts?

#1. dairing up+b is ****. they can't tech it and it sets you up for an easy invincible shine spike or edgehog. the best part is that a well timed dair covers like 5 different angles that the fox could have used. it's often the best option if you get to the edge too late to shine, and they're recovering near/close to the stage.

#2. this is a nice trick to know, because after getting dair'd a lot of marths will up+b immediately, and by then you should have your shield up so you can shine OOS for da kill/

Quick pointless question....
I can do some really stupid stuff(multishine oos, multishine waveshine oos, multishine everything) But for some odd reason I can NOT dashdance without the dust clouds appearing..
Is there some trick to it that i don't know about or something?

do it faster

 

[Meneks]

That answer disappoints me but..
I'll TRY?

 

[TresChikon]

yeah its useless

But unbelievably sexy.



Dairing recoveries?

I use them two ways, messing up sweetspots or torturing them.

EDIT:

DDing without clouds? yeah you'd have to do it at like, SWD speed, but there's really no point to that kind of speed other than to pass the time between stocks or screw around in your shine